Torry Holt

[FishFreak]

Does anyone have the official status on Holt's knee? I'm noticing him being drafted slightly later than normal. I've always viewed him as one of the safest FF picks not to mention a top 3 WR. Is he an injury risk now or is the knee slowing him down? If last year was truly a "down" year for him, I'll take that production at every chance.

[kingfish247]

Does anyone have the official status on Holt's knee? I'm noticing him being drafted slightly later than normal. I've always viewed him as one of the safest FF picks not to mention a top 3 WR. Is he an injury risk now or is the knee slowing him down? If last year was truly a "down" year for him, I'll take that production at every chance.

Holt had knee trouble in '05 too.

 

I just think Holt's FF production will never again reach the consistent heights as it was under Martz. After Linehan gave up play calling duties last year, Holt took a big hit.

 

Throw-in all the other offensive weapons... Bennett, SJax, Bruce, and McMichael... and I just don't see Holt being as consistent as years past.

[Seahawks21]

I think the added weapons should help actually. More single coverage, should equal better yardage numbers. He is still the go-to guy in a pass-based offense. Big numbers.

[wildcat2334]

I think the added weapons should help actually. More single coverage, should equal better yardage numbers. He is still the go-to guy in a pass-based offense. Big numbers.

 

 

Negative. STL is not a pass-based offense anymore. SJax is the guy, and the Rams are gonna ride him.

 

 

Holt is still solid, but he is not gonna produce like he did under Martz.

[Bill Swerski]

Holt had knee trouble in '05 too.

 

I just think Holt's FF production will never again reach the consistent heights as it was under Martz. After Linehan gave up play calling duties last year, Holt took a big hit.

 

I think it had more to do with Holt and Bulger playing through injuries last year and Pace lost to an injury. Holt was kicking some serious ass when everybody was healthy early on.

 

I agree that removing Martz from a system can reduce a WR's effectiveness (it's almost inherent), but consider that Linehan didn't exactly hurt Randy Moss' value in MIN.

 

Throw-in all the other offensive weapons... Bennett, SJax, Bruce, and McMichael... and I just don't see Holt being as consistent as years past.

 

Those weapons pale in comparison to Faulk, Bruce (in his prime), Proehl, Hakim, and Conwell. I'd be more concerned about Holt's age/health and the health of his teammates than the system.

 

Negative. STL is not a pass-based offense anymore. SJax is the guy, and the Rams are gonna ride him.

 

Not when they're down by three scores late in the 3rd quarter. The Rams don't have the defense to ride Jackson for 25-30 carries per game consistently.

Edited August 24, 2007 by Bill Swerski

[kingfish247]

I think it had more to do with Holt and Bulger playing through injuries last year and Pace lost to an injury. Holt was kicking some serious ass when everybody was healthy early on.

I agree with the injuries part. Again, he played through and actually missed time in '05 due to injuries.

 

I'm not sure who's calling plays this season but Holt's drop off was huge vs. the pace he was on when Linehan was calling plays. Even when Linehan was calling the plays, Holt's production trailed off...

 

Linehan...

| 1 den | 0 | 7 80 | 0 |

| 2 sfo | 0 | 5 30 | 1 |

| 3 ari | 0 | 8 120 | 1 |

| 4 det | 0 | 6 102 | 1 |

| 5 gnb | 0 | 3 40 | 1 |

| 6 sea | 0 | 8 154 | 3 |

| 8 sdg | 0 | 5 48 | 0 |

| 9 kan | 0 | 3 50 | 0 |

| 10 sea | 0 | 7 73 | 0 |

| 11 car | 0 | 7 68 | 0 |

 

Olson...

| 12 sfo | 0 | 4 30 | 0 |

| 13 ari | 0 | 7 115 | 1 |

| 14 chi | 0 | 6 75 | 2 |

| 15 oak | 0 | 4 59 | 0 |

| 16 was | 0 | 4 54 | 0 |

| 17 min | 0 | 9 90 | 0 |

 

In '06, he had 7 games with <75yds AND 0tds. Before '06 that was unheard for Holt... with only 7 such games in '04 and '05, combined.

 

Holt still made a Pro-Bowl so I think this is splitting hairs but with all the new guys they added and an emphasis on the run game... I think Holt's biggest value, his consistency, can no longer be relied upon.

[Bill Swerski]

I think Holt's biggest value, his consistency, can no longer be relied upon.

 

Agreed. Then again, it's difficult to be consistent when your future-HOF left tackle is out for the season and your QB can't throw a deep ball because of an injury. Linehan's offense has historically favored one stud WR, so we'll see what happens this year. But I think it's fair to say that Holt is barely a Top 5 WR now.

[FishFreak]

I'm much more concerned with his health than the Rams added weapons and scheme. SO, does anyone have any inside info on his health? He's almost a lock for 90 catches, 1,200 yards and 10TD's if his knee is right. How many other WR's can you say that about?

[kingfish247]

I'm much more concerned with his health than the Rams added weapons and scheme. SO, does anyone have any inside info on his health? He's almost a lock for 90 catches, 1,200 yards and 10TD's if his knee is right. How many other WR's can you say that about?

He had 'minor' knee surgery and they're bringing him along slowly. Word seems to be he'll be 100% for week 1.

 

SJax has had exactly no surgeries this offseason and he has been on the field for only 2 or 3 plays this preseason if that gives any indication to the cautious approach Linehan takes with his core starters.

 

If Holt was "70%" on August 3rd you'd have to think he'd be up to at least 85% by now...

Edited August 24, 2007 by kingfish247

[STL Fan]

Not when they're down by three scores late in the 3rd quarter. The Rams don't have the defense to ride Jackson for 25-30 carries per game consistently.

 

Bingo. One of the worst defenses in the league last year, and it doesn't really look to be much better this year. That said, however, Linehan's strength is that he and his coordinators take what you give them. If you stack the box, they're happy to throw, if you use nickel coverage, they'll run. This is how SJax put up the numbers he did last year when his D was pathetic.

 

Also, I saw Torry running routes at training camp earlier this week, and he looks sharp. All the local accounts of his off-season surgery have called it "cleaning up scar tissue" and that the cartilage damage was minimal, and that he's going to be fine. He may not be top 3, but I think he'll be solid again.

 

My 2 cents from here in the Lou...

Edited August 24, 2007 by STL Fan

[detlef]

Bingo. One of the worst defenses in the league last year, and it doesn't really look to be much better this year. That said, however, Linehan's strength is that he and his coordinators take what you give them. If you stack the box, they're happy to throw, if you use nickel coverage, they'll run. This is how SJax put up the numbers he did last year when his D was pathetic.

 

Also, I saw Torry running routes at training camp earlier this week, and he looks sharp. All the local accounts of his off-season surgery have called it "cleaning up scar tissue" and that the cartilage damage was minimal, and that he's going to be fine. He may not be top 3, but I think he'll be solid again.

 

My 2 cents from here in the Lou...

And that's why we come to the huddle! Nice insight.

[STL Fan]

Thanks for the kind words, and by the way, we also saw them practicing the patented "back corner of the end zone jump ball" play with 6'5" Drew Bennett a couple times.

 

I'll bet he swipes a few TD's from the likes of Jackson, Holt and McMichael this season.

[piratesownninjas]

Negative. STL is not a pass-based offense anymore. SJax is the guy, and the Rams are gonna ride him.

Holt is still solid, but he is not gonna produce like he did under Martz.

They've said they don't want to ride Jackson as hard as they did last year.

Bulger is a lock for at least 4k yards, and his number one target is... A healthy Torry Holt.

Who I happen to think is the most skilled player at that position.

[Bill Swerski]

Bingo. One of the worst defenses in the league last year, and it doesn't really look to be much better this year. That said, however, Linehan's strength is that he and his coordinators take what you give them. If you stack the box, they're happy to throw, if you use nickel coverage, they'll run. This is how SJax put up the numbers he did last year when his D was pathetic.

 

I'm no Rams expert, but it seems to me that the reason that they rode Jackson heavily last year was because Bulger, Holt, and Pace were hurt, not because defenses went into nickel coverage when they had a lead late in the game. Every defense does this, and taking what a defense gives you is not exactly a novel concept. The fact that Jackson had 90 receptions said more about Bulger's rib injury and inability to throw a deep ball than Linehan wanting to control the line of scrimmage with a short passing game. I'm not saying that Linehan is going to morph into Mike Martz this year, but the fact that they went out and got Bennett suggests that they don't plan on riding Jackson as heavily as they did last year.

[STL Fan]

I think the acquisition of Bennet is more of a response to the loss of Kevin Curtis (who they think was dramatically overpaid by the Eagles) than of any desire on the part of the Rams to throw more. They replaced a deep-threat guy with a possession guy. Doesn't seem to me to be the formula for opening things up.

[Bill Swerski]

I think the acquisition of Bennet is more of a response to the loss of Kevin Curtis (who they think was dramatically overpaid by the Eagles) than of any desire on the part of the Rams to throw more. They replaced a deep-threat guy with a possession guy. Doesn't seem to me to be the formula for opening things up.

 

I was under the impression that Bruce is on his way out and that Bennett was going to be his eventual successor. Any truth to that?

 

I don't know if the Rams will open things up in comparison to last year and I'd bank on Jackson getting another 350 or so carries - but I just don't see S-Jax getting 90 receptions again. That's what teams do when they DON'T have a solid QB and solid wideouts (or, in the case of the Rams, when they're not healthy).

[twiley]

I think it had more to do with Holt and Bulger playing through injuries last year and Pace lost to an injury. Holt was kicking some serious ass when everybody was healthy early on.

Yup, Bulger was having some shoulder issues for a few games and once it was better he was overthrowing Holt quite a bit. After he got his rhythm back his numbers started to increase.

 

I'm much more concerned with his health than the Rams added weapons and scheme. SO, does anyone have any inside info on his health? He's almost a lock for 90 catches, 1,200 yards and 10TD's if his knee is right. How many other WR's can you say that about?

His health is fine, I wouldn't even let that be a factor when drafting him. Minor surgery.

Edited August 24, 2007 by twiley

[STL Fan]

I was under the impression that Bruce is on his way out and that Bennett was going to be his eventual successor. Any truth to that?

 

I don't know if the Rams will open things up in comparison to last year and I'd bank on Jackson getting another 350 or so carries - but I just don't see S-Jax getting 90 receptions again. That's what teams do when they DON'T have a solid QB and solid wideouts (or, in the case of the Rams, when they're not healthy).

 

Clearly Bruce is on the downside of his career, but Bennett was not brought here to be #2 ahead of him, in my opinion. They're probably looking at one of the younger, speedier guys as an eventual replacement for Bruce at #2. Bennett is a great possession, #3 guy in this type of offense.

 

As for Jackson's receptions, I really believe that is by design, not out of necessity because of injuries and such. They talked from the day they drafted him about how excited they were about his receiving skills, and planned to make that a major part of his attack, much as it was for years with Marshall. I don't think a recption total approaching 90 is out of the question for Jackson again. He's a beast when he gets a little open space in the secondary.

[wildcat2334]

They've said they don't want to ride Jackson as hard as they did last year.

Bulger is a lock for at least 4k yards, and his number one target is... A healthy Torry Holt.

Who I happen to think is the most skilled player at that position.

 

whatever. the point of the post was if Holt was being drafted to low. I don't think he is- I think he is slotted right in the 6-7 range. In fact, I am probably taking Fitzgerald ahed of Holt. The days of him being a "lock" for a top 3 WR are over.

 

No STL homer, it just seems like they are more of an intermediate passing team now. SJax gets alot of looks out of the backfield, and they just aren't the Martz-led O they once were.

[STL Fan]

whatever. the point of the post was if Holt was being drafted to low. I don't think he is- I think he is slotted right in the 6-7 range. In fact, I am probably taking Fitzgerald ahed of Holt. The days of him being a "lock" for a top 3 WR are over.

 

No STL homer, it just seems like they are more of an intermediate passing team now. SJax gets alot of looks out of the backfield, and they just aren't the Martz-led O they once were.

 

+1

 

Wisdom

[piratesownninjas]

whatever. the point of the post was if Holt was being drafted to low. I don't think he is- I think he is slotted right in the 6-7 range. In fact, I am probably taking Fitzgerald ahed of Holt. The days of him being a "lock" for a top 3 WR are over.

 

No STL homer, it just seems like they are more of an intermediate passing team now. SJax gets alot of looks out of the backfield, and they just aren't the Martz-led O they once were.

We'll see. They've said time and time again that they don't want Jackson to get that many touches. You can tell me whatever all you want, but fact remains that so far they've talked about limiting touches from Jackson. This has nothing to do with Martz not being there.

And I'm as big of a fan as Fitz as there is, there is not way in a redraft I take him over Holt.

[G.K.Trey]

And I'm as big of a fan as Fitz as there is, there is not way in a redraft I take him over Holt.

amen brother

[Randall]

Holt had knee trouble in '05 too.

 

I just think Holt's FF production will never again reach the consistent heights as it was under Martz. After Linehan gave up play calling duties last year, Holt took a big hit.

 

Throw-in all the other offensive weapons... Bennett, SJax, Bruce, and McMichael... and I just don't see Holt being as consistent as years past.

 

 

They lost McDonald and Kevin Curtis and picked up Bennett and McMichael. That's a improvement?

 

His knee in 2005 was from an injury not a lingering knee condition. Thanks for downgrading him though. I like getting him late 2nd round.

[DexterDew]

i think the additions of Bennett and McMichael give them a pair of red zone threats. Linehan is notorious for poor production in the red zone (this goes back to MIN and MIA), his play calling gets a little conservative and they are forced to settle for 3s.

 

i also believe their additions should take some of the pressure of Holt and Jackson, which therorhetically, makes them a more ballanced OFF.

 

Last year when Bulger got knocked around by the Chargers (and that Roided freak of nature/chemistry), he wasn't the same. Couple that with the loss of Pace, and STL had to adjust midseason and rely on Jackson for just about everything.

 

Holt should be Top 6, Bruce will fade away, and STL's offense will evolve to more of a short and mid range passes, with a healthy dose of Jackson running and receiving. I look for them to improve in the red zone.

 

The "good" news is that their DEF is slightly improved, but no where near middle of the pack yet.... so they will play catch up, which means lots of passes by Bulger... and his first look will always be Holt...

[Chadman]

During Linehan's play calling days in Minny, he certainly was not afraid to go deep, and often. I would presume with healthy players, and the current look of the team, that they would certainly give Holt a few deep looks every time out. But I certainly agree that there are other options in the red zone at this point. I think you can find reasons to be concerned about nearly all of the top receivers this season - questions everywhere. Holt should benefit from the health issues of Pace and Bulger, and have a better year. I expect more scores than last season - of the long variety.