Vick is on CNN Headline news right now

[CaptainHook]

I just watched his press conference.

 

He does seem sorry. Of course, I'd be sorry too if I was headed off to the federal pen. Hopefully he can prove it by staying out of trouble.

[Ursa Majoris]

While I certainly understand that anyone can find god and it be an impact on their lives, I have to say that when I read his statement I did the ole . It's just hard to buy into a guy who changes his feelings about something so quickly because he's been busted on it. I have a hard time believing that it's as sincere as he'd like us to believe it is. The man's been in dogfighting for who knows how long, and in 1-2 months time he's now "seen the light" . Call me skeptical still.

Exactly. Anyone taking this one attempt at contrition at face value is an absolute mug. I have some land in Florida I'd like to sell to you guys dead cheap.

 

Edit: And Vick is a mindless subhuman who should rightly be set fire to, never mind be given a second chance. Bah.

Edited August 27, 2007 by Ursa Majoris

[carrb69]

well, why SHOULDN'T he be given a second chance in football? but that's not really the question either, the real question is, what is an appropriate NFL-imposed penalty for being involved in dogfighting? is it worth a lifetime ban? i dunno. to answer it, i guess you have to ask...is dogfighting worse that dealing kilo+ quantities of cocaine? is it worse than being involved in and obstructing the investigation of a murder? is it worse than serially abusing your wife/girlfriend? is it worse than having your goons shoot up a bouncer at a strip joint? i think you can make a pretty good case that each and every one of those things is as bad or worse than being involved in dogfighting. yet people who have committed all of those offenses have received far less than a lifetime ban from the NFL.

 

 

I think they should all be fired for actions like this. If i was to go out and get busted for selling coke, beating my wife/girlfriend, obstructing a murder investigation or any of the other BS these guys get away with, I'd be walked right out the door of my job. And that doesn't matter if you are the burger flipper at McD's or an IT professional or any other "normal" 9 to 5er". It's completely unacceptable behavior in society and I can't for the life of me figure out how these guys get short suspensions for this stuff while regular people get canned for much less.

 

I'm not a Vick fan, and whatever he gets he gets, but if he never plays another down in the NFL, that would be just fine with me. The same goes for Pacman, and Chris Henry (who I am a fan of, offseason issues aside) and any of the other guys getting into trouble with the law because they can't control themselves. How you can act this way, get in trouble with the law, and keep your job is beyond me. Just my 2cents.

[Vet]

I think they should all be fired for actions like this. If i was to go out and get busted for selling coke, beating my wife/girlfriend, obstructing a murder investigation or any of the other BS these guys get away with, I'd be walked right out the door of my job. And that doesn't matter if you are the burger flipper at McD's or an IT professional or any other "normal" 9 to 5er". It's completely unacceptable behavior in society and I can't for the life of me figure out how these guys get short suspensions for this stuff while regular people get canned for much less.

 

I'm not a Vick fan, and whatever he gets he gets, but if he never plays another down in the NFL, that would be just fine with me. The same goes for Pacman, and Chris Henry (who I am a fan of, offseason issues aside) and any of the other guys getting into trouble with the law because they can't control themselves. How you can act this way, get in trouble with the law, and keep your job is beyond me. Just my 2cents.

 

 

If you got arrested for selling coke, beating your wife/girlfriend, obstructing justice or any other offense and your employer fired you, suspended you without pay, or (for heaven's sake) banned you from ever working in your profession again I'd like to be your lawyer because I'd make you a very rich man.

 

But I guarantee your "holier than thou" attitude would be long gone as soon as they slapped the cuffs on you. It would be kind of fun to see you sob like a baby while they booked and detained you and to see you sweat like a pig as you awaited trial.

 

If you were convicted of such a crime, I'd expect your employer to fire you. And, it would be entirely within their rights to refuse to ever hire you again. Just like the Falcons can refuse to rehire Michael Vick.

 

However, if after you served your sentence your employer tried to ban you from ever practicing your profession with another employer, I'd again like to be your lawyer because I'd make you a very rich man. It's commonly referred to as "blacklisting", and it's illegal.

 

It's illegal to prevent a person from seeking employment. Players aren't employed by the NFL, they are employed by the individual franchises. Unless the NFL can show that Vick did something that directly impacted the integrity of the league, they can't ban him from football. If they did, he'd make more money from his lawsuit than he ever made playing football - and he'd be entitled to every cent.

[carrb69]

Vet, the difference is I'm smart enough not to put myself in that position. I don't think I'm "holier than thou" but I know the difference between right and wrong, and I'm not trying to prevent the guy from making a living after paying his debt to society, it just doesn't have to be in the NFL on my dime. My employer would be entirely justified in firing me if I did any of those things, and you are correct that they could not prevent me from working again, but that company need never hire me back, just as the NFL doesn't have to hire Vick, Henry, Pacman or any of the other thugs in the NFL back if they don't want to. Just because these guys are athletically gifted doesn't entitle them to a job in the NFL or any other league for that matter. If the NFL was to hire him back after this, that would be up to the Goodell and I am only saying that I wouldn't think they were out of line not to hire him.

 

I could be wrong, but I think your statement about the players not being employees of the NFL but of the individual team is not totally accurate. It seems to me that the teams act as divisions of the NFL's corporate entity and the commissioner can certainly ban him for life or until it's not likely that he'll ever be productive again. The NFLPA might have something to say about it, but it doesn't mean it couldn't happen. Now, I agree that Goodell couldn't legally go to the commissioner of the the Arena League or the CFL and tell them not to hire him, but they (the NFL) are under no obligation to give him a contract themselves.

 

I will say this though, I will not be attending any games Vick ends up playing in if the NFL does allow him back in.

[BeeR]

I missed the first part of this, I looked up and saw he was on.

? Is something going on w/Vick?

[Ursa Majoris]

I could be wrong, but I think your statement about the players not being employees of the NFL but of the individual team is not totally accurate. It seems to me that the teams act as divisions of the NFL's corporate entity and the commissioner can certainly ban him for life or until it's not likely that he'll ever be productive again.

I think you're right. I believe there is a base contract with the NFL for all players and it's that that gives the commissioner the right to effectively fire a player. Either that or every individual contract has the same base terms in it.

[Vet]

Vet, the difference is I'm smart enough not to put myself in that position. I don't think I'm "holier than thou" but I know the difference between right and wrong, and I'm not trying to prevent the guy from making a living after paying his debt to society, it just doesn't have to be in the NFL on my dime. My employer would be entirely justified in firing me if I did any of those things, and you are correct that they could not prevent me from working again, but that company need never hire me back, just as the NFL doesn't have to hire Vick, Henry, Pacman or any of the other thugs in the NFL back if they don't want to. Just because these guys are athletically gifted doesn't entitle them to a job in the NFL or any other league for that matter. If the NFL was to hire him back after this, that would be up to the Goodell and I am only saying that I wouldn't think they were out of line not to hire him.

 

I could be wrong, but I think your statement about the players not being employees of the NFL but of the individual team is not totally accurate. It seems to me that the teams act as divisions of the NFL's corporate entity and the commissioner can certainly ban him for life or until it's not likely that he'll ever be productive again. The NFLPA might have something to say about it, but it doesn't mean it couldn't happen. Now, I agree that Goodell couldn't legally go to the commissioner of the the Arena League or the CFL and tell them not to hire him, but they (the NFL) are under no obligation to give him a contract themselves.

 

I will say this though, I will not be attending any games Vick ends up playing in if the NFL does allow him back in.

 

I understand. I wasn't referring to you specifically.

 

But you do bring up some interesting thoughts.

 

First of all...the "on my dime" thing. We all make a living on someone else's dime, whether you're the CEO of a major public company or handing out fries at the drive-thru at McD's. In my opinion, you have the right as a consumer to not support Michael Vick (as you said, you'll not be attending any games he plays in the NFL in the future...I applaud that) but you don't have the right to prevent him from pursuing work.

 

Second, players ARE employees of the individual teams. The players are members of the NFLPA, and the teams pay franchise fees to the the NFL - but the players are employees of the individual teams. Just like a truck driver might be a member of the Teamsters, but he is employed by whoever signs his paycheck, not by the union. From a legal perspective, the league (NFL) only oversees the 32 teams, it doesn't employ any of the individual players.

 

That's why I say that Vick should not be banned from football. It would be an ugly precedent if a person was banned from doing his or her job due to a prior conviction. Thousands of people every year across the country come out of prison and become productive citizens performing the same job they did before they were convicted. Some don't, but a lot do. If the crime was directly related to the job (like if an accountant was caught cooking the books or something), that's one thing. But if it wasn't, I think the person should get a second chance. I can't see how dog fighting is directly related to professional football. If you want to say that the gambling aspect taints Vick's credibility as a footbvall player, we can debate that- but I think that's a stretch given the accounts I've read.

 

I'm not minimizing what he did. I think it's despicable. But I think its not a good idea to ban someone from making a living after they pay their debt to society for whatever they've been convicted of.

Edited August 28, 2007 by Vet