If your not Cheating your not Trying

[Cowboyz1]

Every team in the NFL and MLB has a guy who tries steal the other teams signs are calls. We all know that. However, where is the line drawn between gamesmanship and cheating. Having to cover your mouth while you call plays is one thing but having to use some Enigma machine so the other team can't listen in on your radios is quite another. Video taping coaches so that you can match their hand jesters to plays on the field faster then you could do in your head, and then transfer that information to the Defense sound sinister to me. It is an easy step to say if they will go that far it would be stupid not to wire key players on the Defense and QB’s and WR’s telling them what to do during a play because what’s the sense in getting the information if it can’t be used to win on every play?

Have we gotten so desperate to win in America that all rules and principles for fair play are thrown out the window? The pressure to win and make a buck in the form of TV rating, Endorsements and Trophies is killing our sports. Baseball athletes are turning to drugs to perform the Tour De Farce has become just that. What happened to the integrity of the Game? What happened to hero's that did the right things most of the time? What happened to out playing the other guy in a fair battle of talent and moxie? I have always said that America can't stand to much good! It's true. In another post I read about Street Cred has become more important then talent and keeping your nose clean. Farve gets fewer endorsements than VIck.

 

New England is ruined as far as I'm concerned. Where there is smoke there's fire. No telling what they did or would do to win.

 

What the hell is happening to our sports society? Something like this is so damaging because before last week we just assumed teams had a certain respect for each other. There was even talk of a Code being broken for blitzing in the preseason. Now I ask what Code? How deep does the rabbit hole go? The one thing I loved about the NFL was unlike, boxing which I have sworn off now because of it’s corruption, two teams lined up and played their guts out and the team that played the hardest and smartest won. Now I have to wonder. How much of an advantage can you gain by taping radios and stealing signs and such? To what lengths will teams go to win? I never bothered to think about that much until now and that SUCKS.

 

What the FK New England you are no more good in my book. You will never live this down NEVER, and you may have just changed the game forever because now teams will have to think about how far did you go to win a Superbowl and do we have to do the same to get there. Just like the Tour De France, cyclists just gave up trying to win honestly because they know there is someone in the peloton juiced to win and if they don't match that false advantage they have no chance of winning. Now that is a down right shame.

 

Trying hard is one thing but Cheating Hard is another. Belichick should be suspended and New England organization should be punished severely. Vick will go to jail for killing dogs but screwing with the integrity of the game goes unpunished? White collar versus Blue collar I suppose. It’s all just sickens me………

 

New England Fans your team is forever marked with the Scarlet letter C for cheating bastards.............and to call yourselfs Patriots is a down right disgrace.......They should have to change their names!

 

The New England Numbskulls how's that!

Edited September 12, 2007 by Cowboyz1

[CowboysDiehard]

The one thing I loved about the NFL was unlike, boxing which I have sworn off now because of it’s corruption, two teams lined up and played their guts out and the team that played the hardest and smartest won

 

Fixed...

 

The one thing I loved about the NFL was unlike, MLB baseball which I have sworn off now because of it’s corruption, two teams lined up and played their guts out and the team that played the hardest and smartest won

 

Um...oh yeah...fixed....

 

The one thing I loved about the NFL was unlike, NBA baskeball which I have sworn off now because of it’s corruption, two teams lined up and played their guts out and the team that played the hardest and smartest won

 

Umm....well, thank God for fantasy football then....I did finally learn my lesson about pro wrestling when I was about 8...the day Mr. Wrestling (who always wore a mask), had it torn from his face and then dashed into the crowd covering his face in shame.

 

Sigh...what's next....

[LooGie]

Yah, my Fantasy team always seems to cheat for my opponent.. I'm on to their shenanigans

[Cowboyz1]

Now that I think about it, you know what really chaps my a$$ is that I thought the Raiders were the all time cheatingest team. I was down right comfortable with that declaration. Now my whole NFL team hatred.............order of things.............is.......... all wacked out.

 

Thanks Belichick, thanks a ton you sorry excuse for a coach...........AND TAKE THAT FLAG OFF THE HELMET it's misleading, or is it?

[nhoops]

? What else could this be......

 

1st - As I've said before in the other thread.

 

Goddell sent a memo explaining that this wouldn't be tolerated anymore and would be enforced.

 

From what I've "heard" Belicheck explains his view of the taping and his view of the rule. (side note, wasn't the tape confiscated in teh 1st Q? What part could it of possibly played in the outcome of the game) Whether or note his explaination holds any water we may never know. By breaking the rule they should be punished, I'm not disputing that. Have I lost some respect for Bill, yeah I have.

 

But as other former players have said, this stuff happens all the time, anything to gain an advantage

 

Don't have a link, but I heard that Zach Thomas (Mia) said that they had all of Tom's audible calls last year from a tape they got a hold off......where is the outcry? Oh yeah, it's becaust the Pats, are a top team (for many years), were supposadly the darlings of the NFL and given the championship by many experts, and Bill isn't well liked for his win at any cost coaching style.

 

There's even people (homers) saying that Bill did it on purpose to create more bulitin board material and knock his players ego's down a bit from all the hype.....don't believe this for a second, Bill is too smart for this.

 

Personally I think it was arogance, plain and simple. "I'm going to do things like I've always done them." We are not using the video for that game, just building the library so we can study tendencies for future games so we know what to look for. That he was not going to stop until the league told him too.

 

I'm just sick of reading about it and woe is me rants from other huddlers, if it was your team would you have the same reaction? Or what if it was another team.....like the Dolphins or Raiders?

 

In closing I think there is more to this that we know and other teams who have done similar things in the past. I think Bill got caught due to arrogance and I'm for any punishment that Goddell levy's, picks, fines, suspensions. (except forfieting wins).

 

Thanks for listening......now back to the more important stuff.....like who to start as my #3 WR - Curry or D.Henderson

[Cowboyz1]

Thanks for listening......now back to the more important stuff.....like who to start as my #3 WR - Curry or D.Henderson

 

Curry until Brees and Hendy get their timing again.

[AtomicCEO]

? What else could this be......

 

1st - As I've said before in the other thread.

 

Goddell sent a memo explaining that this wouldn't be tolerated anymore and would be enforced.

 

From what I've "heard" Belicheck explains his view of the taping and his view of the rule. (side note, wasn't the tape confiscated in teh 1st Q? What part could it of possibly played in the outcome of the game) Whether or note his explaination holds any water we may never know. By breaking the rule they should be punished, I'm not disputing that. Have I lost some respect for Bill, yeah I have.

 

But as other former players have said, this stuff happens all the time, anything to gain an advantage

 

Don't have a link, but I heard that Zach Thomas (Mia) said that they had all of Tom's audible calls last year from a tape they got a hold off......where is the outcry? Oh yeah, it's becaust the Pats, are a top team (for many years), were supposadly the darlings of the NFL and given the championship by many experts, and Bill isn't well liked for his win at any cost coaching style.

 

There's even people (homers) saying that Bill did it on purpose to create more bulitin board material and knock his players ego's down a bit from all the hype.....don't believe this for a second, Bill is too smart for this.

 

Personally I think it was arogance, plain and simple. "I'm going to do things like I've always done them." We are not using the video for that game, just building the library so we can study tendencies for future games so we know what to look for. That he was not going to stop until the league told him too.

 

I'm just sick of reading about it and woe is me rants from other huddlers, if it was your team would you have the same reaction? Or what if it was another team.....like the Dolphins or Raiders?

 

In closing I think there is more to this that we know and other teams who have done similar things in the past. I think Bill got caught due to arrogance and I'm for any punishment that Goddell levy's, picks, fines, suspensions. (except forfieting wins).

 

Thanks for listening......now back to the more important stuff.....like who to start as my #3 WR - Curry or D.Henderson

 

I disagree.

[AtomicCEO]

furthermore...

 

If everyone in the league is doing this, then why have only the Pats been caught... twice.

[max]

This was discussed in the Steelers Press conference yesterday too and Dick Hoak had a funny story about this from back when teams used to exchange video tape.

 

Here is the quote from the pittsburgh post gazette:

 

"Dick Hoak, a former longtime Steelers assistant coach, said the Steelers once received a video from another team by mistake in their exchange with them. The video focused on an opposing coach using hand signals along the sideline. Hoak could not remember the team, but said the Steelers did not file a complaint."

[untateve]

furthermore...

 

If everyone in the league is doing this, then why have only the Pats been caught... twice.

 

because bill wanted to be caught. he's tired of living like this. you see, he loves all of you and it hurt him to know that he was living a lie. he has also decided he will stop cutting up sweatshirts that asian children sweated over to create.

[Cunning Runt]

I personally do like the idea of the Pats forfeiting the win morseo than fines, suspensions, or loss of draft choices.

 

Cheating is cheating, whether it affected the outcome of the game is totally beside the point.

[DemonKnight]

their hand jesters

 

 

LOL @ hand

[rajncajn]

? What else could this be......

 

1st - As I've said before in the other thread.

 

Goddell sent a memo explaining that this wouldn't be tolerated anymore and would be enforced.

 

From what I've "heard" Belicheck explains his view of the taping and his view of the rule. (side note, wasn't the tape confiscated in teh 1st Q? What part could it of possibly played in the outcome of the game) Whether or note his explaination holds any water we may never know. By breaking the rule they should be punished, I'm not disputing that. Have I lost some respect for Bill, yeah I have.

 

But as other former players have said, this stuff happens all the time, anything to gain an advantage

 

Don't have a link, but I heard that Zach Thomas (Mia) said that they had all of Tom's audible calls last year from a tape they got a hold off......where is the outcry? Oh yeah, it's becaust the Pats, are a top team (for many years), were supposadly the darlings of the NFL and given the championship by many experts, and Bill isn't well liked for his win at any cost coaching style.

 

There's even people (homers) saying that Bill did it on purpose to create more bulitin board material and knock his players ego's down a bit from all the hype.....don't believe this for a second, Bill is too smart for this.

 

Personally I think it was arogance, plain and simple. "I'm going to do things like I've always done them." We are not using the video for that game, just building the library so we can study tendencies for future games so we know what to look for. That he was not going to stop until the league told him too.

 

I'm just sick of reading about it and woe is me rants from other huddlers, if it was your team would you have the same reaction? Or what if it was another team.....like the Dolphins or Raiders?

 

In closing I think there is more to this that we know and other teams who have done similar things in the past. I think Bill got caught due to arrogance and I'm for any punishment that Goddell levy's, picks, fines, suspensions. (except forfieting wins).

 

Thanks for listening......now back to the more important stuff.....like who to start as my #3 WR - Curry or D.Henderson

Considering the matchups I'd say Devery is a much better option.

[Skippy]

I personally do like the idea of the Pats forfeiting the win morseo than fines, suspensions, or loss of draft choices.

 

Cheating is cheating, whether it affected the outcome of the game is totally beside the point.

I agree with this.

[Finger]

The New York Post reports former Giants LB Carl Banks said he is not surprised or appalled by New England Patriots HC Bill Belichick's spygate fiasco because espionage, legal or otherwise, is a rampant league-wide phenomenon. "Its something that every team does in one way, shape or form," Banks said. "Every team has a TV show, every team has a highlight show with a camera crew on the sideline. You think theyre just shooting highlights for their team? With the advent of all these access shows - Inside the Panthers, Inside the Lions - theyre not all shooting highlights, Im telling you now. What the league has to do now is monitor the number of people on the sidelines who operate cameras. I bet a few people disappear this weekend!" But not the opposing team scouts in the press box. "When youre sitting in the press box and see all those scouts from other teams," Banks began, "theyre not all watching the game. Theyre watching the sideline, for calls, for signals .??.??. they do all of that stuff. Its however you can get an advantage to help you prepare for the next week." Banks pooh-poohed the notion that the Patriots could have gained a competitive advantage over the Jets by stealing their defensive signals. "I cant debate the legality of it; but any fan who is appalled and thinks the outcome of the game was impacted based on this videotape has been misled," Banks said. "Theres not enough time to process and corroborate the information. The biggest spies during the course of a game are the players on the field." Then what would be the purpose of a cloak-and-dagger video scam? "Library," Banks said. "Its a library of calls and signals." Belichick was Banks defensive coordinator with the Giants. Banks also worked in the Jets front office when Belichick was defensive coordinator under HC Bill Parcells. "I learned just about everything I know about strategy, preparation and competitive edge from him," Banks said.

[Hat Trick]

The New York Post reports former Giants LB Carl Banks said he is not surprised or appalled by New England Patriots HC Bill Belichick's spygate fiasco because espionage, legal or otherwise, is a rampant league-wide phenomenon. "Its something that every team does in one way, shape or form," Banks said. "Every team has a TV show, every team has a highlight show with a camera crew on the sideline. You think theyre just shooting highlights for their team? With the advent of all these access shows - Inside the Panthers, Inside the Lions - theyre not all shooting highlights, Im telling you now. What the league has to do now is monitor the number of people on the sidelines who operate cameras. I bet a few people disappear this weekend!" But not the opposing team scouts in the press box. "When youre sitting in the press box and see all those scouts from other teams," Banks began, "theyre not all watching the game. Theyre watching the sideline, for calls, for signals .??.??. they do all of that stuff. Its however you can get an advantage to help you prepare for the next week." Banks pooh-poohed the notion that the Patriots could have gained a competitive advantage over the Jets by stealing their defensive signals. "I cant debate the legality of it; but any fan who is appalled and thinks the outcome of the game was impacted based on this videotape has been misled," Banks said. "Theres not enough time to process and corroborate the information. The biggest spies during the course of a game are the players on the field." Then what would be the purpose of a cloak-and-dagger video scam? "Library," Banks said. "Its a library of calls and signals." Belichick was Banks defensive coordinator with the Giants. Banks also worked in the Jets front office when Belichick was defensive coordinator under HC Bill Parcells. "I learned just about everything I know about strategy, preparation and competitive edge from him," Banks said.

 

Seems like Banks likes Billicheat verry much, I'm sure that hass nothing to do with his opinion. Frankly I'm going to listen to Favres opinion which is the opposite of this Banks guy, Carl Banks, LMAO, who the hell is he anyway

[millerx]

Every team in the NFL and MLB has a guy who tries steal the other teams signs are calls. We all know that. However, where is the line drawn between gamesmanship and cheating. Having to cover your mouth while you call plays is one thing but having to use some Enigma machine so the other team can't listen in on your radios is quite another. Video taping coaches so that you can match their hand jesters to plays on the field faster then you could do in your head, and then transfer that information to the Defense sound sinister to me. It is an easy step to say if they will go that far it would be stupid not to wire key players on the Defense and QB’s and WR’s telling them what to do during a play because what’s the sense in getting the information if it can’t be used to win on every play?

Have we gotten so desperate to win in America that all rules and principles for fair play are thrown out the window? The pressure to win and make a buck in the form of TV rating, Endorsements and Trophies is killing our sports. Baseball athletes are turning to drugs to perform the Tour De Farce has become just that. What happened to the integrity of the Game? What happened to hero's that did the right things most of the time? What happened to out playing the other guy in a fair battle of talent and moxie? I have always said that America can't stand to much good! It's true. In another post I read about Street Cred has become more important then talent and keeping your nose clean. Farve gets fewer endorsements than VIck.

 

New England is ruined as far as I'm concerned. Where there is smoke there's fire. No telling what they did or would do to win.

 

What the hell is happening to our sports society? Something like this is so damaging because before last week we just assumed teams had a certain respect for each other. There was even talk of a Code being broken for blitzing in the preseason. Now I ask what Code? How deep does the rabbit hole go? The one thing I loved about the NFL was unlike, boxing which I have sworn off now because of it’s corruption, two teams lined up and played their guts out and the team that played the hardest and smartest won. Now I have to wonder. How much of an advantage can you gain by taping radios and stealing signs and such? To what lengths will teams go to win? I never bothered to think about that much until now and that SUCKS.

 

What the FK New England you are no more good in my book. You will never live this down NEVER, and you may have just changed the game forever because now teams will have to think about how far did you go to win a Superbowl and do we have to do the same to get there. Just like the Tour De France, cyclists just gave up trying to win honestly because they know there is someone in the peloton juiced to win and if they don't match that false advantage they have no chance of winning. Now that is a down right shame.

 

Trying hard is one thing but Cheating Hard is another. Belichick should be suspended and New England organization should be punished severely. Vick will go to jail for killing dogs but screwing with the integrity of the game goes unpunished? White collar versus Blue collar I suppose. It’s all just sickens me………

 

New England Fans your team is forever marked with the Scarlet letter C for cheating bastards.............and to call yourselfs Patriots is a down right disgrace.......They should have to change their names!

 

The New England Numbskulls how's that!

 

See, now this your ailment....but I have the remedy!!!!!

 

We've known about it for years down in the south............COLLEGE FOOTBALL!!!

[loyalboyd]

Well I will say it. I wonder is that how they won those Super Bowls cheating? They always had Manning cards so maybe that was why. Its said but the word Dynasty and Patroits are not in the same sentence for me anymore. I use to be amazed at what they did. Now I am not because they might have just won all those by cheating. They had enough time to do it by sending thier people to away games. Sad so sad. This puts a bad mark on all their players. I bet they knew or had a clue at least.

[moneymakers]

Does this mean that Dallas can be Americas team again?

or does this prove that New England really is Americas team?

[Big Score 1]

Meh!

 

Right after the Pats released Caldwell, the Jets brought him in. Everybody & their brother knew the Jets had no real desire to sign Caldwell, they were only interested in picking his brain about the Pats Defensive & Offensive schemes.

 

This was just Belichick's payback.

 

Of course one is legal while the other isn't.

[jjpro11]

i wonder what feels worse for ol' Bill.. getting caught cheating on your wife or getting caught cheating on the nfl. either way, he is a POS in my book and always will be.

[Sox]

i wonder what feels worse for ol' Bill.. getting caught cheating on your wife or getting caught cheating on the nfl. either way, he is a POS in my book and always will be.

 

 

Didn't Bill say he didn't actually cheat on his wife because that was the way he interpreted his wedding vows?

[Bronco Billy]

What the hell is happening to our sports society?

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

Whenever there are hugh dollars at stake, there's always people willing to cheat to get a share of it. Doesn't matter whether the name is Bill Belichek, Joe Nacchio, or Marc Rich. Money supercedes ethics in some people's character. In some cases by a wide margin.

[Hat Trick]

Does this mean that Dallas can be Americas team again?

or does this prove that New England really is Americas team?

 

The Saints are Amerrica's team.

[Bill Swerski]

Didn't Bill say he didn't actually cheat on his wife because that was the way he interpreted his wedding vows?