Notre Dame Loses 38-0

[Atlanta Cracker]

And think, we get to see ND play every week on national TV...

 

God, I may have to poke my own eyes out....

 

I wonder if an 8Am kickoff is out of the question

[godtomsatan]

Well, no he has a point in that other programs graduate starters and don't fall to...119th in offensive rankings. What the haters forget is that Ty phoned in his last 2 years of recruiting, and this is the result: a Sr class that contians 9 actual recruits, with the remaining number fleshed out through walkons and non-scholarship players. That's a large reason of why he was fired in the first place. There's no leadership in place on this team, because with the exception of the Jr class, it's bascaclly a team of freshmen and sophomores with a handful of 5th year Srs like zibikowski and their center. That's it.

 

Willingham's fault....

[godtomsatan]

Of course they do. LSU was the team that destroyed Notre Dame's players, coaches and fans' confidence. Once a program loses that, it's tough to get back.

 

Methinks sometimes you just don't have much else to talk about.

[GWPFFL BrianW]

Of course they do. LSU was the team that destroyed Notre Dame's players, coaches and fans' confidence. Once a program loses that, it's tough to get back. Would imagine part of Michigan's problems this year is due to their big margin defeat in the Rose Bowl.

 

Michigan and USC beat them just as bad, both better than LSU last year.

[Pope Flick]

Willingham's fault....

 

 

Clearly, Weis has handled things poorly. But just because the dude was let go two + years ago doesn't mean what he did back then (phone in his final two classes, which led to his dismissal) doesn't implicate him now.

 

At this point, however, the AD Kevin White who hired O'Leary, Willingham, Meyer, no wait then Weis needs to bear much of the responsibility. You can only replace underlings for so long before they'll figure you out.

[Pope Flick]

Of course they do. LSU was the team that destroyed Notre Dame's players, coaches and fans' confidence. Once a program loses that, it's tough to get back. Would imagine part of Michigan's problems this year is due to their big margin defeat in the Rose Bowl.

 

 

Nice try, but the game that prolly did them in was this game:

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/...iesta_gamer_ap/

[GWPFFL BrianW]

It wasn't like Notre Dame ever treated Willingham that good though either. They made him feel pretty unwanted from the get-go. It was a terrible fit for him. The guy wins everywhere else.

[Possum Jenkins]

It wasn't like Notre Dame ever treated Willingham that good though either. They made him feel pretty unwanted from the get-go. It was a terrible fit for him. The guy wins everywhere else.

Please... Here is Ty's record since he became a head coach:

 

1995 Stanford 7-5-1

1996 Stanford 7-5

1997 Stanford 5-6

1998 Stanford 3-8

1999 Stanford 8-4

2000 Stanford 5-6

2001 Stanford 9-3

2002 Notre Dame 10-3

2003 Notre Dame 5-7

2004 Notre Dame 6-5

2005 Washington 2-9

2006 Washington 5-7

 

I count three seasons in the last eleven that Ty had less than 5 losses. I count three seasons where Ty has had eight or more wins. It is undeniable that Ty's 2004 ND class (this years seniors) was not even a top 40 class, nor was the Weis-ingham class of 2005. This guy spent more time on the golf course than anything else, and his recruiting is the leadership of Notre Dame right now. Weis had a top 10 class in 2007 (even with the defections) and has a top class for 2008 assuming they all don't jump ship after this start. The man is working hard and has made some mistakes, but I think he will right the ship. ND will suck this year, but I am confident that ND in 2008 -2010 will be back in the conversations again. I am also just as confident that even though Washington looks OK right now at 2-1, and even though he may actually have another winning year this year, Willingham will run that program right back to below average with his "stellar" recruiting.

Edited September 20, 2007 by Possum Jenkins

[wildcat2334]

I am no Ty Willingham apologist but cmon this is a joke. You guys are gonna seriously blame Ty for his poor Jr and Sr. classes for this 0-3 debacle, while the genius that is Charlie Weiss gets ALL THE CREDIT from winning with Quinn, ad the rest of Ty's players the past 2 seasons I personally love watching ND, and Weiss get demolished by everyone. Staring what 0-8 right in the face? wow

 

 

please, this is ridiculous - Weiss now has what, 2.5 of his classes in place...... this team is awful, poorly coaced, poor execution - this has nothing to do with Willingham - period.

 

For the above post- I think what Ty accomplished at Stanford, is actually pretty remarkeable......8, 9 win seasons on the farm is tough to do. Sorry, but not many coaches in America are winning consistently at Stanford-

 

He is a solid coach, and appears to be recruiting prety well at UW thus far. One of the good guys- and he gets unfairly bashed IMO

[Possum Jenkins]

I am no Ty Willingham apologist but cmon this is a joke. You guys are gonna seriously blame Ty for his poor Jr and Sr. classes for this 0-3 debacle, while the genius that is Charlie Weiss gets ALL THE CREDIT from winning with Quinn, ad the rest of Ty's players the past 2 seasons I personally love watching ND, and Weiss get demolished by everyone. Staring what 0-8 right in the face? wow

please, this is ridiculous - Weiss now has what, 2.5 of his classes in place...... this team is awful, poorly coaced, poor execution - this has nothing to do with Willingham - period.

 

For the above post- I think what Ty accomplished at Stanford, is actually pretty remarkeable......8, 9 win seasons on the farm is tough to do. Sorry, but not many coaches in America are winning consistently at Stanford-

 

He is a solid coach, and appears to be recruiting prety well at UW thus far. One of the good guys- and he gets unfairly bashed IMO

Ty doesn't take all the blame - let's face it, Weis seriously overestimated his ability to scheme in the face of poor fundamentals and Weis should take all the credit, IMO, for the thrashings ND has had in the last 5 games. That being said, ND loses those games even if he coached brilliantly because of the lack of talent in the Jr and Sr classes. Willingham had Quinn, Smardja, Stoval, McKnight, etc. and he coached them to 5-6 and 6-5. There is no doubt Weis took what was in the cupboard and made it better than Willingham ever could. Now the cupboard is bare in the Jr & Sr classes and Weis severely miscalculated the ability of his team to perform the fundamentals. That is on Weis alone and if he didn't have the goodwill built up (through two BCS seasons and two straight top 10 recruiting classes) I would be jumping off the bandwagon too. Ty's last two recruiting classes sucked, and his last two seasons were 5-6 and 6-5. No on field performance and no hope for the future in recruiting and you're gone - he didn't do the job.

 

The Weis-Willingham debate will not be finished, IMO, until the end of 2008. At that time Charlie will have three complete classes and one on the way. Circle 10/25/08 on your calander - ND visits Washington and I submit to you right now that it won't be close - ND by 14+.

[wildcat2334]

calendar circled..... Jake Locker will be one of the best QB's in the nation by that time. Kid is a special talent, and he will be winning games on his own by Oct 2008. I wouldn't be so sure of ND by 14.

[godtomsatan]

ND by 14+.

 

Name your price fool.

 

ETA: on my birthday no less.....

Edited September 20, 2007 by godtomsatan

[theprofessor]

Ty doesn't take all the blame - let's face it, Weis seriously overestimated his ability to scheme in the face of poor fundamentals and Weis should take all the credit, IMO, for the thrashings ND has had in the last 5 games. That being said, ND loses those games even if he coached brilliantly because of the lack of talent in the Jr and Sr classes. Willingham had Quinn, Smardja, Stoval, McKnight, etc. and he coached them to 5-6 and 6-5. There is no doubt Weis took what was in the cupboard and made it better than Willingham ever could. Now the cupboard is bare in the Jr & Sr classes and Weis severely miscalculated the ability of his team to perform the fundamentals. That is on Weis alone and if he didn't have the goodwill built up (through two BCS seasons and two straight top 10 recruiting classes) I would be jumping off the bandwagon too. Ty's last two recruiting classes sucked, and his last two seasons were 5-6 and 6-5. No on field performance and no hope for the future in recruiting and you're gone - he didn't do the job.

 

The Weis-Willingham debate will not be finished, IMO, until the end of 2008. At that time Charlie will have three complete classes and one on the way. Circle 10/25/08 on your calander - ND visits Washington and I submit to you right now that it won't be close - ND by 14+.

 

Weiss is showing that he isn't THE coach everyone was making him out to be. Poor communicator. He's supposed to be this offensive genius and great QB coach but here we are going into the 4th game of the year and they have no TD'S, his starting QB has transferred and he comes into the season not knowing who is QB is? The guy's a coordinator. That's it.

[theprofessor]

calendar circled..... Jake Locker will be one of the best QB's in the nation by that time. Kid is a special talent, and he will be winning games on his own by Oct 2008. I wouldn't be so sure of ND by 14.

 

Hell, Jake is winning games by himself in September 07. As soon as we upgrade our skill players Jake will be unstoppable. The guys got the "IT" factor.

Edited September 20, 2007 by theprofessor

[theprofessor]

ND visits Washington and I submit to you right now that it won't be close - ND by 14+.

 

 

I'll take some of that action but do yourself a favor and keep the points. I won't need them.

[GWPFFL BrianW]

The difference to me is the product I see on the field. Willingham won at Stanford and led them to the freakin' Rose Bowl! Enough said there, he's a winner. He took a program that was in shambles, Washington, and has them going in the right direction. Weis and the Irish are going in the wrong direction. And by using the argument of Quinn and Samradgza etc etc are gone is saying, ok, Weis can win with Willinghams good players, but cant win with his bad players, and his own players that he's recruited for the past 2 years. How come Florida doesn't look like they missed a step despite losing a ton of talent, including their starting QB? Simple. Coaching. Maybe it wouldn't be as bad if there was a sense that Notre Dame even treated Ty with any dignity. But the whole time, from day 1, after firing George O'Leary, I just got the sense that they "settled" for Ty. And who's to say that he wouldn't have had the same success in 05 and 06, given the same opporutunities as Charlie seems to get (inherit a team from a "lousy" coach and lose all the "good" players after a year or 2) Difference is, Charlie will get a tenure beyond 3 years, and probably 4 years, Ty didn't. And quite honestly, it's a good thing for Ty. Who would want to put up with the good old boys and their unrealistic expectations? This isn't the old days. ND can't just go into Chicago and find any good catholic athlete and say, come to Notre Dame, and they will without even thinking about it. It just doesn't happen anymore, and the sooner people realize that, the better off Notre Dame will be. The Irish haven't been worth a sh|t since Lou Holtz was cheating for them.

[Pope Flick]

I am no Ty Willingham apologist but cmon this is a joke. You guys are gonna seriously blame Ty for his poor Jr and Sr. classes for this 0-3 debacle, while the genius that is Charlie Weiss gets ALL THE CREDIT from winning with Quinn, ad the rest of Ty's players the past 2 seasons I personally love watching ND, and Weiss get demolished by everyone. Staring what 0-8 right in the face? wow

please, this is ridiculous - Weiss now has what, 2.5 of his classes in place...... this team is awful, poorly coaced, poor execution - this has nothing to do with Willingham - period.

 

For the above post- I think what Ty accomplished at Stanford, is actually pretty remarkeable......8, 9 win seasons on the farm is tough to do. Sorry, but not many coaches in America are winning consistently at Stanford-

 

He is a solid coach, and appears to be recruiting prety well at UW thus far. One of the good guys- and he gets unfairly bashed IMO

 

 

You should re-read what I said: many fans saw some of this coming, and was what led to Willingham's firing; that aside - no 0-3 isn't "Ty's fault" and I have no good explanation for this team having driven off a cliff; also I pointed out that at this poitn kevin White has to begin to bear a large part of the blame since he was the guy who oversaw Davie's firing, the O'Leary debacle and then firing Ty with the idea that he had Meyer locked up before having to go to his Plan B in Weis.

 

Ty IS a good guy, and I'm not bashing him personally, but his professional failure to recruit led to his dismissal. It was true then, and still true now.

[Possum Jenkins]

The difference to me is the product I see on the field. Willingham won at Stanford and led them to the freakin' Rose Bowl! Enough said there, he's a winner. He took a program that was in shambles, Washington, and has them going in the right direction. Weis and the Irish are going in the wrong direction. And by using the argument of Quinn and Samradgza etc etc are gone is saying, ok, Weis can win with Willinghams good players, but cant win with his bad players, and his own players that he's recruited for the past 2 years. How come Florida doesn't look like they missed a step despite losing a ton of talent, including their starting QB? Simple. Coaching. Maybe it wouldn't be as bad if there was a sense that Notre Dame even treated Ty with any dignity. But the whole time, from day 1, after firing George O'Leary, I just got the sense that they "settled" for Ty. And who's to say that he wouldn't have had the same success in 05 and 06, given the same opporutunities as Charlie seems to get (inherit a team from a "lousy" coach and lose all the "good" players after a year or 2) Difference is, Charlie will get a tenure beyond 3 years, and probably 4 years, Ty didn't. And quite honestly, it's a good thing for Ty. Who would want to put up with the good old boys and their unrealistic expectations? This isn't the old days. ND can't just go into Chicago and find any good catholic athlete and say, come to Notre Dame, and they will without even thinking about it. It just doesn't happen anymore, and the sooner people realize that, the better off Notre Dame will be. The Irish haven't been worth a sh|t since Lou Holtz was cheating for them.

 

Again, please. Ty has a history of being an average to below average coach. Had a .500 record at Stanford before the Rose Bowl season. Of course ND by definition "settled" for Willingham after the O'Leary fiasco. He wasn't their first pick. Hell, they "settled" for Weis after the Urban Meyer fiasco. Willingham got sacked because there was no future (ie recruiting) that was going to turn around his mediocrity. I will give you that Ty can take a crap program and get it to .500, with the occasional winning season. He has a proven track record of that...

 

Samardja barely saw the field under Willingham - he came out of nowhere because Weis recognized the talent. Quinn didn't even get a look from Willingham in recruiting until Ndukue's dad begged Willingham to take a look at him after Ndukue committed. There is nothing you can say to me after watching Willingham for three years that will make me believe he is a better coach or recruiter than Weis. That being said, Weis this year has laid the biggest turd I have ever seen in college football, and if he doesn't turn it around and play some respectable ball this year he will be on the hot seat in 2008. He gets a pass because of what he did the last two years, but no one in ND nation is interested in being the laughingstock of college football. He needs to fix it this year and fix it soon or else he'll be gone too. I believe he will fix it.

 

ND is not just going into Chicago and finding any good catholic athlete - they're going into Cali and taking the top QB two years in a row. They're going into Jersey and Georgia and FL. They are recruiting talent that Ty never could. Weis has proven he can coach experienced talent (He did it with "Willingham's" guys, though Ty couldn't do it...) Right now he's proven he can't coach inexperienced players - not entirely a shock since his entire career has been spent coaching guys who already know the fundamentals. He needs to get back to basics and I think that he is. I think from here you see a gradually improving ND squad. Probably a losing season, but they will look better as they go along (except for USC, which will manhandle them). If Weis keeps his 2008 class together you will see a much better team next year, and in 2009 you will see a team that can compete for a national championship.

[Possum Jenkins]

Weiss is showing that he isn't THE coach everyone was making him out to be. Poor communicator. He's supposed to be this offensive genius and great QB coach but here we are going into the 4th game of the year and they have no TD'S, his starting QB has transferred and he comes into the season not knowing who is QB is? The guy's a coordinator. That's it.

 

The guy $hit the bed with virtually every call he's made this year. I still say he rights the ship before the end of the season.

[Possum Jenkins]

Name your price fool.

 

ETA: on my birthday no less.....

 

I'd hate to take your birthday money, but I'll certainly make an ATS bet with you. Say $100?

[Possum Jenkins]

I'll take some of that action but do yourself a favor and keep the points. I won't need them.

 

Done. Straight up then. How much you want?

[Possum Jenkins]

Ty IS a good guy, and I'm not bashing him personally, but his professional failure to recruit led to his dismissal. It was true then, and still true now.

 

Good info here... but you should couple it with his personal desire to be on the PGA - that guy gets paid more per hour than any coach in football...

[theprofessor]

Weiss is a joke. His only cred comes from riding on Bellicek's back @ New England. Look at what he's doing with his "own" guys

Another huge mistake by Notre Dame in hiring this fat tub of Goo. I can't wait until he brings his Fat A$$ to the lake. We'll crush him and then I'll use him as an anchor for our next visit to the "Cut".

 

Oh. and I almost forgot, those Southern Cal QB's that the genius stole from Cal look really good

[Pope Flick]

Weiss is a joke. His only cred comes from riding on Bellicek's back @ New England. Look at what he's doing with his "own" guys

Another huge mistake by Notre Dame in hiring this fat tub of Goo. I can't wait until he brings his Fat A$$ to the lake. We'll crush him and then I'll use him as an anchor for our next visit to the "Cut".

 

Oh. and I almost forgot, those Southern Cal QB's that the genius stole from Cal look really good

 

 

If Weis is a joke, then what is Willingham when Weis took Ty's team and had them basically one batted ball (4th and 8 vs USC) away from playing in the BCS Title game? Samardzija goes from 24 catches and barely 330 yards in 2 years with Willingham, then turns around for a 77-1250-15 year in Weis' first. Puh-lease.

 

I haven't found any (because I haven't bothered to look), but I'm also willing to bet that quotes from Ty following the Ohio State loss included his standard "a blowout loss is no different than a 1 point loss" line of crapola.

 

You know who Ty reminds me of? Bill Fitch, the NBA coach. M F'er could rebuild a team like no one's business but in no way, shape or form was he able to maintain it. He took over the 5th place Celtics and won 1 title, then went to the Rockets and took them from 6th in their division in the mid 80's and built them as well.

 

And yes, Clausen has "it" and lost in the hubbub over the 0-2 matchup was the first of 4 matchups he'll have with the UM QB in the upcoming years.

Edited September 22, 2007 by Pope Flick

[GWPFFL BrianW]

Yeah he recruited the top 2 qb's the last 2 years, and watch him crap all over the one who doesn't "succeed" in his genius system. He has no loyalty at all. The cow got way too much credit for "developing" Tom Brady. As for the Chicago reference, I was merely illustrating how the landscape has changed completely in college football. There is more parity now. Ask the Florida schools. I never thought I would ever see the day where Florida State and Miami were average football teams. But the fact is, they are. Weis recruits in California, and Florida. Well shock of shocks, so does every other big name school, and those other big name schools are producting FAR SUPERIOR results. The only reason Notre Dame even got in BCS bowls is because they are Notre Dame, and because the rules favor them. And the bottom line is, when they got to those bowls, ( and every bowl since before Holtz left) they were completely overmatched and didn't deserve to share the same field as LSU or Ohio State the past 2 years.