muck Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 This is a lot of hand-wringing over the oldest starting QB in the NFL. Favre = lots of experience ... and everything that goes with it EManning = starting in NY even if his last name isn't Manning. You trying to tell me, PoN, that if Manning's last name was Jones that Lorenzen would be starting for the Giants? I would guess that you're in the minority on that view. The reason that the other guys are in the "toss up" group w/ Favre is that while they (obviously) don't have Favre's experience, they also have younger bodies that respond better to the bumps and bruises of a full season of the NFL. That, and Favre has shown a tendency to make AWFUL decisions for many games in a row, all in hopes of winning the game by himeself. Some of the younger guys that you quickly dismissed as being obviously less able than Favre are not so blinded by their abilities that they take very silly risks with the football. So, do you want a gunslinger that can make stuff happen (both good and bad) or a game manager that will have good TD:INT ratios? In today's game, more GMs will take the latter than the former, I'd speculate. Favre is pretty much a middle of the road QB from today forward. That doesn't diminish the fact that he is one of the (if not the) greatest QB to ever lace 'em up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Favre has shown a tendency to make AWFUL decisions for many games in a row, all in hopes of winning the game by himeself. ...just a question - if Favre shows that he has buried "bad Brett" (which he has done quite effectively in two hard-fought games so far), who we all know has a tendency to show up from time to time and FAR overstay his welcome, does he vault up in your rankings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 ...just a question - if Favre shows that he has buried "bad Brett" (which he has done quite effectively in two hard-fought games so far), who we all know has a tendency to show up from time to time and FAR overstay his welcome, does he vault up in your rankings? define "vault"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicster Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 This is a lot of hand-wringing over the oldest starting QB in the NFL. Favre = lots of experience ... and everything that goes with it EManning = starting in NY even if his last name isn't Manning. You trying to tell me, PoN, that if Manning's last name was Jones that Lorenzen would be starting for the Giants? I would guess that you're in the minority on that view. The reason that the other guys are in the "toss up" group w/ Favre is that while they (obviously) don't have Favre's experience, they also have younger bodies that respond better to the bumps and bruises of a full season of the NFL. That, and Favre has shown a tendency to make AWFUL decisions for many games in a row, all in hopes of winning the game by himeself. Some of the younger guys that you quickly dismissed as being obviously less able than Favre are not so blinded by their abilities that they take very silly risks with the football. So, do you want a gunslinger that can make stuff happen (both good and bad) or a game manager that will have good TD:INT ratios? In today's game, more GMs will take the latter than the former, I'd speculate. Favre is pretty much a middle of the road QB from today forward. That doesn't diminish the fact that he is one of the (if not the) greatest QB to ever lace 'em up. Hmmm... Since the 1997 season, the year after Green Bay won the Super Bowl, Green Bay has more regular season wins than any other team in the NFC with 97. Only New England and Denver have more wins in the entire league over that time, both with 102. Only one losing season ('05 with 4 wins) during that time for Green Bay. Favre is a winner and he's proven it year in, year out. Seems that Favre still manages to win his share of games regardless of how often he makes silly plays while trying to make something out of nothing. And, btw, ask Philly about a couple of ill advised attempts at getting the ball out while being hit. You have to take the bad with the good with Favre. At least you know that he can go out there and make plays. Also, over the first 9 years Favre was in the league (exception: the 1 year in Atlanta wasn't counted) compared to Peyton Manning, Favre had 155 INT's compared to Peyton's 139. That's less than 2 INT's per year difference between the two. His teams have steadily gotten worse since 96' and so he's been asked to do more to help his team win and that has resulted in more INT's. While I'd argue that Manning's teams have gotten better and he's been able to reign it in and not be as aggressive down the field and thus lowering his INT totals. But back on topic, I'll have to say that there could be 3 or 4 QB's that I would obviously take over Favre right now if I had to make a choice. Brady, Manning, Pamler and possibly McNabb. But otherwise, the rest are either below him or on par with him and as such, if they are on the same level, then I have to go with Favre. Disclaimer: HOMER ALERT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Vic ... you are looking in the rearview mirror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooGie Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Oh, I'd definately say that there are AT LEAST 12 QBs that are worse than he is. So, stick Garrard, Eli and Schaub into the "toss up" category and drop Campbell to the "Favre wins" category, there are 10 better, 10 about the same and 11 worse. Can't get much more middle-of-the-road than that. You're wrong here. You can hate him, and decide he's not what he used to be, but as far as the picture-perfect player that can make it all happen on his own, there is no one that ranks up there with Favre. He aint been around for so long because he's a chump. Sure Peyton will take all his records, but if Peyton was born 20 years later, Favre's records would stand until then. Favre had that one, terrible awful season, and everyone thinks that's the Favre that is here to stay. He's proven it for 3 years now...give him an o-line, and 1 (maybe 2) decent WR and you got yourself a team that will fill the seats in their stadium. He's always played with his emotions, and always played for the passion of the game. Sure, that equals INTs, but it also equals Brett Favre and certainly equals the Green Bay Packers. No one has that passion that Brett has. Not even Peyton. Peyton is a student of the game. Brett is the game and all it stands for. Plus, Brett still has that gun, and that wreckless disregard for the "fundamentals" of a pass. Off the back foot? Sure. Sidearm? Absolutely! Flip of the wrist 10 yards past the line of scrimmage in a playoff game? Why not?!? There is no one like Brett Favre, and there never ever will be again. You're Manning and two guys who have started less than 12 games over a 3 time MVP that has played with very little as far as receivers and backs go, along with a rebuilding line. You are a fool. My statement is pretty much the same thing..but..alot longer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Sure Peyton will take all his records, but if Peyton was born 20 years later, Favre's records would stand until then. Peyton still has a long way to go before breaking Brett's TD records. Peyton throws 30+ TDs on a good year, while Brett AVERAGED about 30 TDs until about five years ago. No one has that passion that Brett has. Not even Peyton. Apparently you've never heard Peyton during a game. Peyton plays with A LOT of intensity. Peyton is a student of the game. Brett is the game and all it stands for. Favre had that one, terrible awful season, and everyone thinks that's the Favre that is here to stay. Uh, I'm counting two pretty bad seasons over the past two years and dude turns 38 in a couple of months. Even if we throw out '05 because the entire team was in shambles, he was still pretty bad last year. His completion percentage and TD numbers (despite having a solid #2 option in Jennings) were way below his career average. That's the sign of a declining QB. I'm not saying that Brett can't have a solid season, but all of the knob-slobbing in the world won't transform him back into the MVP-era Brett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 define "vault"... Say moving solidly out of the "toss-up" division and above a few the "probably prefer" guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Favre is pretty much a middle of the road QB from today forward. That doesn't diminish the fact that he is one of the (if not the) greatest QB to ever lace 'em up. This is why I said you were a joke. I should have said that you were a jokester, but you get the point either way... So for everyone who thinks that Favre is washed up, you can all kiss my entire ass. And before you get your panties in a bunch, this post is in good fun. But seriously... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 So for everyone who thinks that Favre is washed up, you can all kiss my entire ass. And before you get your panties in a bunch, this post is in good fun. But seriously... I don't believe that anybody said that, but feel free to continue acting like a massive homer d0uche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted September 23, 2007 Author Share Posted September 23, 2007 This is why I said you were a joke. I should have said that you were a jokester, but you get the point either way... So for everyone who thinks that Favre is washed up, you can all kiss my entire ass. And before you get your panties in a bunch, this post is in good fun. But seriously... How big is your ass? Some of them around here are pretty bulbous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 (edited) I don't believe that anybody said that, but feel free to continue acting like a massive homer d0uche. And before you get your panties in a bunch, this post is in good fun.But seriously... And I think by saying that at best he's middle of the pack at best is inferring exactly that. Feel free to continue your grudge against me on the boards though. Edited September 23, 2007 by piratesownninjas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 How big is your ass? Some of them around here are pretty bulbous. Its about middle of the pack, and washed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Hmm?? Still think middle of the road?? Wake up people he is a top 10 QB if not top5-8!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 ...just a question - if Favre shows that he has buried "bad Brett" (which he has done quite effectively in two hard-fought games so far), who we all know has a tendency to show up from time to time and FAR overstay his welcome, does he vault up in your rankings? Most definitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Such insight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Such insight... Toughen up buttercup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Toughen up buttercup. Am I buttercup or a smartass punk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 The old guy can still play. Those who were saying otherwise should at least acknowledge that fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 The old guy can still play. Those who were saying otherwise should at least acknowledge that fact. And who would those people be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 (edited) And who would those people be? No one as far as I can tell. But if you are a diehard Packer homer who thinks that Favre is a close second to Manning in the present day, a lot of logic gets lost in the translation. Edited September 24, 2007 by bushwacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Favre's stats look pretty good (didn't see the game cause I was watching the Chiefs get a nearly miracle win). I think that if "bad Brett" is gone, then he's probably a top 5-10 QB for this year. That said, if I was starting a team today, he'd still be a middle-of-the-road QB to me. Maybe that's why I'm not a GM in the NFL (and neither are you). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Packers fans (deservedly) have the right to feel good about the way that their team is playing right now and the right to be excited about Brett getting off to a really good start and tying/breaking Marino's record. But the backlash to people correctly pointing out that Favre really isn't an elite QB anymore is just silly. And denigrating Peyton because he's some sort of perceived "threat" to Brett's legacy or whatever is just childish and stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gdawg Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 (edited) Packers fans (deservedly) have the right to feel good about the way that their team is playing right now and the right to be excited about Brett getting off to a really good start and tying/breaking Marino's record. But the backlash to people correctly pointing out that Favre really isn't an elite QB anymore is just silly. And denigrating Peyton because he's some sort of perceived "threat" to Brett's legacy or whatever is just childish and stupid. Brett looks pretty good so far with Driver and a grab bag of other receivers Edited September 24, 2007 by Gdawg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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