MyFantasyLeague scoring question

[soulrebel]

First time MFL commissioner here ... curious about how the Cowboys defense is going to be scored for tonight's game in our league.

 

At halftime, Live Scoring is showing 17 points against, when Buffalo's D has scored points on INT returns. So technically the Dalls D has only given up 3 points and 155 yards. I looked at our scoring setup and the official scoring category is "Opponent Total Points Scored". I just realized there's an option to have the category be "Offensive Points Against" ... so it looks like all 17 points will count against the Dallas D, and they're going to get a low score for the weekend (they currently have 1 point for PA, plus 1 for a sack), .

 

I'm just trying to get a handle on this situation before the inevitable complaint from the Cowboys Defense owner ... I don't think it's going to impact the outcome of his game, but it's a valid question. Those scores really shouldn't count against the D.

 

Any commissioners out there going through the same thing, or have any experience with this sort of situation? I'm obviously not going to change the rules midway through the season, but it makes you wonder how many games have had their outcomes decided by a franchise's Defense being penalized for points they didn't give up.

 

tt looks like they have the same scoring system in my Sportsline league (I'm not the commissioner for that) ... so yeah, I'll probably change it to "Offensive Points Against" for my MFL league next season.

[Ursa Majoris]

Coincidence.....I've just whined about this in one of my leagues.

 

Not going to affect the result though.

[alchico]

Unless you specifically check "Only Offensive Points count against", it counts all points scored. I've brought this up in several of my leagues and it was eventually changed at years end. Unless you want a midseason change your stuck with what you have, all points against count

[Bier Meister]

comes down to how your league defined the d/st scoring. unfortunately, mfl does not have and option for the combo of offensive and st points scored against..... only

 

offensive points scored against

and

total points scored against

[soulrebel]

I actually own the Cowboys D in my Sportsline league ... I'm currently leading by 2 points, but my opponent has Marshawn Lynch going, and I have Witten & the Cowboys D. If I end up losing, I'm gonna be pissed.

[McBoog]

comes down to how your league defined the d/st scoring. unfortunately, mfl does not have and option for the combo of offensive and st points scored against..... only

 

offensive points scored against

and

total points scored against

 

 

I have always done offensive points against. It makes no sense to penalize a defense for the horrid play of their offense.

 

What I have lobbied MFL to add is the following category. Offensive and special teams points against. If you are playing in a league where your D team gets special teams points awarded like returned TDs, they should also be penalized for TDs they give up while on special teams.

[policyvote]

I have always done offensive points against. It makes no sense to penalize a defense for the horrid play of their offense.

 

 

Sure it does; that's what happens in real football. The Cowboys had to overcome the Bills's three TDs, no matter how the Bills scored them originally. No matter how well the Cowboys defense played, in the end the Cowboys lose if they don't score 25.

 

What are you going to do then, for teams that have terrible time-of-possession and hang their defense out to dry late in games? Amortize points allowed over total snap count, so that you get fantasy points based on offensive points allowed per snap? BS. The early-aughts Ravens defense wouldn't have been what it was without Jamal Lewis falling forward 30 times a game for 110 yards. Also the Martz-era Rams defenses wouldn't have been nearly so bad if their offense didn't score 55 points a game in 40 plays. There's no way to completely isolate a defensive performance from the offense, just as the performance of a defense can drastically alter an offense's production.

 

When you draft fantasy defenses, you should be taking into account what the offense is going to do anyway, period.

 

Peace

policy

[myhousekey]

Coincidence.....I've just whined about this in one of my leagues.

 

Not going to affect the result though.

 

I just did the same thing...

Edited October 9, 2007 by myhousekey

[BiggieFries]

First time MFL commissioner here ... curious about how the Cowboys defense is going to be scored for tonight's game in our league.

 

At halftime, Live Scoring is showing 17 points against, when Buffalo's D has scored points on INT returns. So technically the Dalls D has only given up 3 points and 155 yards. I looked at our scoring setup and the official scoring category is "Opponent Total Points Scored". I just realized there's an option to have the category be "Offensive Points Against" ... so it looks like all 17 points will count against the Dallas D, and they're going to get a low score for the weekend (they currently have 1 point for PA, plus 1 for a sack), .

 

I'm just trying to get a handle on this situation before the inevitable complaint from the Cowboys Defense owner ... I don't think it's going to impact the outcome of his game, but it's a valid question. Those scores really shouldn't count against the D.

 

Any commissioners out there going through the same thing, or have any experience with this sort of situation? I'm obviously not going to change the rules midway through the season, but it makes you wonder how many games have had their outcomes decided by a franchise's Defense being penalized for points they didn't give up.

 

tt looks like they have the same scoring system in my Sportsline league (I'm not the commissioner for that) ... so yeah, I'll probably change it to "Offensive Points Against" for my MFL league next season.

 

Our league was set up like this as well and I don't like it.

 

Sure it does; that's what happens in real football. The Cowboys had to overcome the Bills's three TDs, no matter how the Bills scored them originally. No matter how well the Cowboys defense played, in the end the Cowboys lose if they don't score 25.

 

What are you going to do then, for teams that have terrible time-of-possession and hang their defense out to dry late in games? Amortize points allowed over total snap count, so that you get fantasy points based on offensive points allowed per snap? BS. The early-aughts Ravens defense wouldn't have been what it was without Jamal Lewis falling forward 30 times a game for 110 yards. Also the Martz-era Rams defenses wouldn't have been nearly so bad if their offense didn't score 55 points a game in 40 plays. There's no way to completely isolate a defensive performance from the offense, just as the performance of a defense can drastically alter an offense's production.

 

When you draft fantasy defenses, you should be taking into account what the offense is going to do anyway, period.

 

Peace

policy

 

Policy I have to disagree with you on this one. The Cowboys D & Special team as a unit only gave up 10 points. The other 14 came from ints ran back for TDs. Neither of the those units were on the field when those 2 TDs happened so I don't think they should count against them.

 

If a team has a terrible TOP, then you started the wrong defense (or just got unlucky). As long as that defensive/spec. team unit doesn't actually give up the points while they're on the field, then any other scores that happen should not count against them.

[policyvote]

Our league was set up like this as well and I don't like it.

Policy I have to disagree with you on this one. The Cowboys D & Special team as a unit only gave up 10 points. The other 14 came from ints ran back for TDs. Neither of the those units were on the field when those 2 TDs happened so I don't think they should count against them.

 

Yes. I understand that. But, in IDP leagues, guys that are on the field for more snaps are valuable because they get more tackles. Ergo, good players on teams with offenses that are either bad or VERY good are more valuable.

 

If a team has a terrible TOP, then you started the wrong defense (or just got unlucky).

 

Bingo. If you started the cowboys, you knew they were going to Buffalo on MNF, for Buffalo's first MNF game in 13 years. You didn't think the crowd would be up for that? You didn't think that the BIlls would play the best they would all year? It doesn't matter where the points came from, you had to know that the Bills would play the Dallas tough. And you know what? They did. Those points are still points, and they count, end of story. Defenses can't prevent all points from being scored, but the offense still has to overcome them.

 

Okay, let me put it to you this way: what if Chris Kelsay had caught his pick on the 1 instead of in the end zone? The 'Boys defense would go out there and have to stop the Bills' offense four times, which rarely happens when it's first-and-goal on the 1. You're telling me that if the Kelsay bat-and-pick merely puts the ball so close to the goal line that Buffalo's offense can't help but score, then that's 100% the fault of the Dallas defense? NO! They still got hung out to dry by the offense.

 

Peace

policy

Edited October 9, 2007 by policyvote

[BiggieFries]

Yes. I understand that. But, in IDP leagues, guys that are on the field for more snaps are valuable because they get more tackles. Ergo, good players on teams with offenses that are either bad or VERY good are more valuable.

 

Well that's in IDP leagues, not team D/ST leagues. Different rules and scoring scheme. Completely different animal, ISMHO. With IDP, the more the defense is on the field the better, because your IDP players are on the field more and have a chance to score more points with tackles, ints, etc.

 

Team D/ST is different because it's typically set up so that a defense that allows less points, yards, etc. score more. So the less they are out there, the better.

 

Bingo. If you started the cowboys, you knew they were going to Buffalo on MNF, for Buffalo's first MNF game in 13 years. You didn't think the crowd would be up for that? You didn't think that the BIlls would play the best they would all year? It doesn't matter where the points came from, you had to know that the Bills would play the Dallas tough. And you know what? They did. Those points are still points, and they count, end of story. Defenses can't prevent all points from being scored, but the offense still has to overcome them.

 

They may count in the real game itself, but in fantasy (depending on your scoring and rules) it's not so cut and dry.

 

The Cowboy's D overcame 6 turnovers (4 of which led to them having to come out onto the field) and only allowed 3 points. The special teams made a mistake and let up a td. So at the end of the day, they only let up 10 points.

 

Okay, let me put it to you this way: what if Chris Kelsay had caught his pick on the 1 instead of in the end zone? The 'Boys defense would go out there and have to stop the Bills' offense four times, which rarely happens when it's first-and-goal on the 1. You're telling me that if the Kelsay bat-and-pick merely puts the ball so close to the goal line that Buffalo's offense can't help but score, then that's 100% the fault of the Dallas defense? NO! They still got hung out to dry by the offense.

 

Peace

policy

 

No it's not entirely the fault of the defense, but the Bills' offensive unit did score points against the Dallas defensive unit (in this scenario). But at least the defense had a chance to stop them. This is what I'm trying to get at. The way you described it, you want to penalize a team's defense for points they had no chance of stopping. They weren't even on the field for those int returns for TDs, how could they "overcome" in that scenario?

[Big Country]

comes down to how your league defined the d/st scoring. unfortunately, mfl does not have and option for the combo of offensive and st points scored against..... only

 

offensive points scored against

and

total points scored against

 

 

I have always done offensive points against. It makes no sense to penalize a defense for the horrid play of their offense.

 

What I have lobbied MFL to add is the following category. Offensive and special teams points against. If you are playing in a league where your D team gets special teams points awarded like returned TDs, they should also be penalized for TDs they give up while on special teams.

 

If you press the control key while selecting the offensive points against and the special teams points against, you will create a rule that is the combination of those two.

 

 

Regarding the OPs question, it is all in how your league defined this in the rules in the beginning. I have played in leagues that do it each way. Some (and I would say the most common style, particular before the explosion of online league management services) do total points and that is the easiest as an owner can look at the score and get a rough idea of how many points his Def did or did not get. Other leagues do offensive points only (or combine offense and ST). Not so easy for owners to take a quick glance and see roughly how their D did, but it also does not penalize them for points scored when they were not on the field.

[policyvote]

Well that's in IDP leagues, not team D/ST leagues. Different rules and scoring scheme. Completely different animal, ISMHO. With IDP, the more the defense is on the field the better, because your IDP players are on the field more and have a chance to score more points with tackles, ints, etc.

 

Of course it's different, I'm just illustrating the point. There is no way to completely isolate a team's defensive performance from that same team's offensive performance, not without every possession for every team starting at their own 20-yard-line.

 

Team D/ST is different because it's typically set up so that a defense that allows less points, yards, etc. score more. So the less they are out there, the better.

They may count in the real game itself, but in fantasy (depending on your scoring and rules) it's not so cut and dry.

 

Exactly, which is why trying to split hairs about it won't work. All points count. Period. There's the only answer that makes sense to me.

 

The Cowboy's D overcame 6 turnovers (4 of which led to them having to come out onto the field) and only allowed 3 points. The special teams made a mistake and let up a td. So at the end of the day, they only let up 10 points. No it's not entirely the fault of the defense, but the Bills' offensive unit did score points against the Dallas defensive unit (in this scenario). But at least the defense had a chance to stop them. This is what I'm trying to get at. The way you described it, you want to penalize a team's defense for points they had no chance of stopping. They weren't even on the field for those int returns for TDs, how could they "overcome" in that scenario?

 

But simiarly, in that scenario, it would require a ridiculous performance of three goal-line stops and then a FG block in order to come away not allowing any points. Essentially, even if Kelsay had not scored on that play, he would have almost certainly doomed the Cowboys' D to giving up SOME points. And even if they did pull off the miracle goal line stand, then the 'Boys get the ball deep in their own end--so the 'Boys D will rely on the 'Boys offense to move the ball in order to avoid getting hung out to dry with terrible field position again.

 

The offense/defense interaction is way too complicated to separate what points were "allowed" by the defense and what points were the offense's fault. Make 'em all count, period. Anything else is adding a layer of artificial BS to a game (FF) that's full of too much of it.

 

Peace

policy

[Caveman_Nick]

Of course it's different, I'm just illustrating the point. There is no way to completely isolate a team's defensive performance from that same team's offensive performance, not without every possession for every team starting at their own 20-yard-line.

Exactly, which is why trying to split hairs about it won't work. All points count. Period. There's the only answer that makes sense to me.

But simiarly, in that scenario, it would require a ridiculous performance of three goal-line stops and then a FG block in order to come away not allowing any points. Essentially, even if Kelsay had not scored on that play, he would have almost certainly doomed the Cowboys' D to giving up SOME points. And even if they did pull off the miracle goal line stand, then the 'Boys get the ball deep in their own end--so the 'Boys D will rely on the 'Boys offense to move the ball in order to avoid getting hung out to dry with terrible field position again.

 

The offense/defense interaction is way too complicated to separate what points were "allowed" by the defense and what points were the offense's fault. Make 'em all count, period. Anything else is adding a layer of artificial BS to a game (FF) that's full of too much of it.

 

Peace

policy

 

This is the way I prefer to do it as well. I get out voted a lot, though.

Edited October 9, 2007 by Caveman_Nick

[McBoog]

Sure it does; that's what happens in real football. ...

 

 

I used to try to make this game we play emulate "real" football as close as possible. It took almost a decade of , but then I realized that the first word in this game is "Fantasy".

 

Life got much simpler after that epiphany .

[Big Country]

 

I used to try to make this game we play emulate "real" football as close as possible. It took almost a decade of , but then I realized that the first word in this game is "Fantasy".

 

Life got much simpler after that epiphany .

 

Same here once I realized that my SO was not the combination of Jessica Alba and an adult film star... once I had that epiphany all was good, but the fantasy remained........