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Why isn't Marion Barber getting 90% of the carries


Locness_Monster
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This is the way I see it

 

They run Barber when then are up or in a close game for ball control while punishing tired d's with a powerful FRESH runner. Great demoralization technique imo.

 

Yesterday they had to pass to win because they were to far behind so whether or not Barber gets 3 more carries or not is insignificant. They did not have the luxury of pounding Barber and needed to pass...so the stat has less to do with giving the ball to Barber to win and more with coaching philosophy.

 

There is a correlation, but it is because of philosophies not Barber touches for the win.

Edited by Dont Rookie Me........
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I love stupid stats and this is one of them. Stupidity can not be taught ladies and gentlemen.

these stats are from LAST YEAR(if you want stats from this yr I will have to break them down tomm)

 

Allow me to just cut and paste what i wrote previously on this issue with my "stupid stats"

the stats combat what MB3 haters or JJ backers like to say:

Barber got the easy carries....Barber did his damage on 3rd and longs....blah blah blah...

as a birds fan I hope the cowboys continue to use barber wrong...because in the end it will bite them in the ass

just like it did last nite :D

 

JJ carried the ball 199 times for 877 yards between the 20s for a 4.4ypc

Barber carried the ball 77 times for 441 yards between the 20s for a 5.73ypc

 

on 1st down carries:

Barber: 63/296 7TDs 4.7ypc

JJ: 179/679 2TDs 3.8ypc

 

now of Barbers 63 carries 13 of them were 1st and goal carries for a total of 30 yards and 7TDs...if you remove those carries then Barber averaged 5.32ypc on 1st down vs JJs 3.8ypc and fwiw 54% of Barbers carries came on 1st down, only 25% of his carries came on 3rd down.

 

I dont know what they will do down in Little D but the numbers sure make a strong case for Barber to get more carries vs JJ

 

54% of barbers carries were on 1st down(21% of them were 1st and goal though)...and only 25% of his carries occurred on 3rd down

 

but i do agree that we wont see much of a change this yr...that is unless JJ gets INJURED AGAIN(he has missed 11 of 48 games)

 

25% of Barbers carries and 27% of his yardage came on 3rd downs, 47% were on 1st down and 25% were on 2nd down and 3% were on 4th down.

 

i am not a cowboy homer in the least but all i tend to hear is that JJ got the raw end of the stick and barber had it easy but when you look at what BOTH runners did on 1st downs it has to make you scratch your head:

JJ on 1st downs: 179carries 679yards 3.8ypc 2TDs

Barber on 1st downs: 63carries 296yards 4.7ypc 7TDs

 

 

Here are ALL of barbers 1st down carries in the 2 minute warning(he actually only had 8 carries for 40 yards and of those carries only 2 were for double digit yardage(10 & 11 yards))

1st-10=11yrds

1st-4=no gain

1st-10=5yrds

1st-10=6yards

1st-5=no gain

1st-10=10yrds

1st-10=7yrds

1st-10=1yrd

 

...21 of barbers 63 1st down carries were either in the 2min offense or as 1st and goals and on those 21 carries he only averaged 3.3ypc vs 5.38ypc on his other 42 1st down carries...so the EASY YARDS ARGUMENT doesnt really hold much weight...again for some reason that seems to be the perception but the stats dont show the same story..

4th quarter:

JJ 43/138 3.2avg 1TD

Barber 50/285 5.7avg 8TDs

 

Carries by down(yards/tds) for Barber(if you back out his 1st and goal carries barber averaged 5.38ypc on 1st down...so all those "EASY" 3rd down draw plays netted him his worst YPC other then 4th down.)

1st 63/296 7 (4.7ypc)

2nd 34/177 4 (5.21ypc)

3rd 34/176 2 (5.18ypc)

4th 4/5 1 (1.25ypc)

 

also fwiw Barber had 13 carries that were 1st and goal for a total of 30 yards and 7TDs...if you back those out of the 1st down carries Barber averaged a whopping 5.32ypc on 1st down.

 

Wait I know, Bill called the unimaginative plays for JJ because he didnt like him and called better plays for Barber because he was his pet project.

Thats it right?

 

and did you know that Barber had 73 carries when the boys were not leading as in behind or like LOSING oh and those 73 carries accounted for 54% of his overall carries...so Barber actually had fewer carries when the boys had a lead then when they were losing

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and that leads to if you can run the ball you can control the clock and limit the Pats opportunities to score...a good running game is a defenses best friend...the team that beats the pats this yr will commit to the run and have WRs that are able to take advantage of their weakness(their secondary).

 

Dallas is averaging 130 yards a game on the ground, 11th best. Indianapolis is 5th best at 142 yards per game. I'd say Dallas is doing pretty well in the ground game. I don't have the stats at hand but it also my understanding that they are ranked very well in time of possession as well. Their passing game is ranked 3rd.

 

No ... I'd say their offense is NOT the problem ... as much as fantasy footballers everywhere want to believe that making MBIII the primary back will be some kind of magic pill.

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and did you know that Barber had 73 carries when the boys were not leading as in behind or like LOSING oh and those 73 carries accounted for 54% of his overall carries...so Barber actually had fewer carries when the boys had a lead then when they were losing

 

Not this year! and I would like to see where you got these stats so we can do our own investigating.

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This is the way I see it

They run Barber when then are up or in a close game for ball control while punishing tired d's with a powerful FRESH runner. Great demoralization technique imo. THIS IS A MISCONCEPTION THAT THE STATS DO NOT SUPPORT

 

Yesterday they had to pass to win because they were to far behind so whether or not Barber gets 3 more carries or not is insignificant. They did not have the luxury of pounding Barber and needed to pass...so the stat has less to do with giving the ball to Barber to win and more with coaching philosophy.

 

There is a correlation, but it is because of philosophies not Barber touches for the win.

Ummm they were up in the 3rd quarter...i have not checked yet to see how many carries barber had after they got the lead but i bet it wasnt many....more carries would have lessened the time the pats would have had to score...its really not that hard to see....that doesnt mean that they would have won but you can almost be assured that the D would have been a bit more fresh if the boys committed to the run to take some time off the clock....they got into a proverbial heavy weight slug fest when they should have been sticking and jabbing :D

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No. But if you had to see only one of them on the field the rest of the year, who would you pick? I love the way he runs the ball. Just seems like the entire offense is energized when he's in the game.

 

But that's not a choice that needs to be made, IMHO. I love the way he runs too but I've never believed in changing just to change.

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Ummm they were up in the 3rd quarter...i have not checked yet to see how many carries barber had after they got the lead but i bet it wasnt many....more carries would have lessened the time the pats would have had to score...its really not that hard to see....that doesnt mean that they would have won but you can almost be assured that the D would have been a bit more fresh if the boys committed to the run to take some time off the clock....they got into a proverbial heavy weight slug fest when they should have been sticking and jabbing :D

 

The Pats scored at will so I'm not even sure that ball control would have done much more than make it 31-17. I have no doubt the Cowboys would have lost had they controlled the clock, which isn't them playing to their strength. The Cowboys strength is not grinding it out on offense. Maybe it should be but that's a different debate. I'm still not convinced that Barber can be as effective in a workhorse roll anyways and see no need to put him in that position anyways. Plus, if grinding it out is going to be their style on offense the need to let Romo, Witten and TO go and get some secondary players who can cover. They played to their strength on offense and got out-talented. They would have been out-talented had the tried to grind it out too.

 

In the most important game since the two of them have been here, Jones was slightly more effective, ran the ball with power and anger and was the MVP on the drive that didn't just give the Cowboys the lead but was the first time all season the Pats trailed in the second half (at least that's what I heard on the radio). The Pats answering after the Cowboys took the lead on their first drive of the third quarter was game, set and match.

 

The Cowboys are a 5-1 team who just got schooled but a superior team. That doesn't mean you throw out the 5 wins, IMHO. I think if Barber had 90% of the carries this season, the Cowboys are still 5-1 but Barber is worse for the wear which I see as short-term thinking give the productivity of the offense.

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I agree he should be getting more carries but this makes me :D

rolling your eyes proves my point, the Cowballs don't get it.

 

look, i didn't say, best scoring opportunity, i said best offensive weapon.

(though it obvious he can f'n score)

to a man, the Patriots said they had the most respect for MBIII.

 

all you had to do was watch the game as a football fan and not with

homer colored glasses on, or tears in your eyes :D

and he performs like that most weeks....

 

it's about using him to keep the D honest...

wearing down the D...the guy BEATS on smaller LB's and the secondary...

it's about opening up the passing game so Romeo can do his thing.

some of the oldest dogma in the book...

 

Romeo isn't quit there yet, Barber, if used more and right, would make him better

 

he's under used period.

he should be getting 2thirds of the carries EVERY game..JJ can spell him.

everybody got so excited on those two runs by JJ lastnight. why?

cuz you hardly ever see it. thats why.

 

you're waisting huge talent and your best offensive weapon......

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rolling your eyes proves my point, the Cowballs don't get it.

 

look, i didn't say, best scoring opportunity, i said best offensive weapon.

(though it obvious he can f'n score)

to a man, the Patriots said they had the most respect for MBIII.

 

all you had to do was watch the game as a football fan and not with

homer colored glasses on, or tears in your eyes :D

and he performs like that most weeks....

 

it's about using him to keep the D honest...

wearing down the D...the guy BEATS on smaller LB's and the secondary...

it's about opening up the passing game so Romeo can do his thing.

some of the oldest dogma in the book...

 

Romeo isn't quit there yet, Barber, if used more and right, would make him better

 

he's under used period.

he should be getting 2thirds of the carries EVERY game..JJ can spell him.

everybody got so excited on those two runs by JJ lastnight. why?

cuz you hardly ever see it. thats why.

 

you're waisting huge talent and your best offensive weapon......

 

So I guess you are more qualified to make an assessment of how MBIII and JJ should be utilized than the coaching staff of Dallas who sees these players every day at practice and breaks down their performances on film each and every week.

 

The Dallas offense has scored the SECOND most points in the league. Dallas has averaged 130 yards per game. Pumping up the offensive categories even more would NOT stop opposing offenses from scoring ... it would not give Roy Williams the ability to cover. The problem is that Dallas can't STOP people from scoring ... they have have plenty of offensive punch.

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um, excuse me grits n spam, but this thread is about MBIII, not the porous dallas D.

we can discuss that to if you like....my comments are on topic.

 

more qualified?...nah, probably not.

my opinion?....most certainly.

 

not sure if you're a Dallass homer ,but man you dudes are thick!

i try and give MBIII some props (that he deserves) and you still howl like you have mad cow disease!

 

maybe if you used him more your damn D could get some MUCH NEEDED REST.....but you never thought of that.

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um, excuse me grits n spam, but this thread is about MBIII, not the porous dallas D.

we can discuss that to if you like....my comments are on topic.

 

more qualified?...nah, probably not.

my opinion?....most certainly.

 

not sure if you're a Dallass homer ,but man you dudes are thick!

i try and give MBIII some props (that he deserves) and you still howl like you have mad cow disease!

 

maybe if you used him more your damn D could get some MUCH NEEDED REST.....but you never thought of that.

 

The Dallas offense is working VERY well right now ... it is NOT what is broken. Last I heard Dallas already is one of the leaders in time of possession.

 

MBIII generally takes advantage of the defense that JJ has softened up for him.

 

I am a Dallas homer and there is NOT a single peep in the Dallas area about MBIII replacing JJ.

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One important point has not been mentioned. Julius is going to be an FA next year. I would be very surprised if the Cowboys pay for his services. There's no reason to run MBIII into the ground. They'll have plenty of time to do that in the following years. That being said, with MBIII's bruising style injury's are inevitable. I don't know if he'll ever get the carries that the Fantasy Ballers want. They've got a good mix going right now, so get used to them both.

Edited by Capt. Stanky
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The Cowboys are 5-1 with the 2 back system. The Cowboys would be 5-1 if Barber got 95% of the carries with what would ammount to unnecessary tread on Barber's tires for a team looking for a re-match. What am I missing?

Agreed!

 

Look, Barber runs hard and grinds out the yards. I love seeing him out there as well. But that style of punishment that wears out the D also wears him down.

 

Good for you, pig devilz, to point out that MB III is good, thanks for the unbiased opinion. Seriously. I understand what you are saying.

 

Perhaps Barber needs a few more carries and it is reasonable to think that would mean that it helps Dallas' time of possession, but where is the tipping point? Is Barber durable enough to take the additional punishment? I don't know. But if current situation is deemed necessary that we see less Barber right now so he is able to play through the whole season, then I'm fine with it.

Edited by Gunther
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I love stupid stats and this is one of them. Stupidity can not be taught ladies and gentlemen.

 

 

This is the way I see it

 

They run Barber when then are up or in a close game for ball control while punishing tired d's with a powerful FRESH runner. Great demoralization technique imo.

 

Yesterday they had to pass to win because they were to far behind so whether or not Barber gets 3 more carries or not is insignificant. They did not have the luxury of pounding Barber and needed to pass...so the stat has less to do with giving the ball to Barber to win and more with coaching philosophy.

 

There is a correlation, but it is because of philosophies not Barber touches for the win.

 

It's always great fun to watch ignorant people call others stupid.

 

:D

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