SF409ers Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 I think you missed the point. I specifically asked the "one game" question so you'd think outside the box of Rice's career records. The only part of Rice's actual receiving game you mentioned was his hands. Yes, they were great...and Moss has great hands, too. He's never had a problem with drops, and he's ALWAYS making acrobatic grabs. I was speaking from pure football standpoint. All other things equal, Moss gives his team a bigger advantage on the field. No I got the point, it would be Rice in his prime. I have a habit of going off anytime I bring up Rice and wander off in all directions I am a SF fan but when you talk about a bigger advantage, even for one game, I still say Rice. He was IMO a much more complete WR, he could catch the ball anywhere on the field, off any route and in a clutch situations he always found ways to get open and be at the right place at the right time, not that Moss can't do those things also but IMO Rice did them better. If that one game came down to a 4th quarter drive I would feel much better having Rice out there than Moss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 I would agree with Swiss about wanting Moss for one game. He is probably the most gifted WR ever. For sheer physical dominance, I'd take Moss. But the guy has been a knucklehead his entire career. If I was drafting a team, Moss might not be in my top 5. He has already bounced around to three teams, had plenty of off and on the field incidents, and shown that when things aren't going well, he is a quitter. Not the kind of guy I would want to draft out of college hoping to find a #1 WR for years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 I go Rice #1 with Moss # 2. I do agree Moss did give up in Oakland but none of us are in position to say we would not of done the same thing if we were the best weapon in the NFL and your team was not figuring out ways to use it. Rice definately played under better circumstances and played with veterans around him his whole career.he was in position and was great enough to make great things happen. if Moss were in those same circumstances we might already be calling him the best ever. I agree there. I'm sure Moss likes to win and he knows he's good. If his QB wants to throw to linemen all day, then what's the point going deep? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtra Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 (edited) For anyone who doesn't think Moss is in the top 5, I wanna see that list of yours. And I'll spot you Rice, Carter and Harrison. There just haven't been many truly "great" WRs, in terms of on-field production. Lots of guys with longevity and consistency, but few with eye-popping numbers. For me, there are only four: Rice, Carter, Harrison and Moss. So, take those four (in their primes), and ask yourself one question: Who would you want on your team for ONE game? I have a ton of respect for the other three, but I'd roll with Moss. I think, with all other things equal, Moss gives me the best advantage over an opposing team. Id take Moss last,Id rather have any wide reciever that wont quit on me when things arent going our way. Steve Largent is better than Moss any day in my book,he didnt have the skills or potential that Moss has,but he had heart ,pride and was an over achiever,3 things that Moss lacks. Edited October 20, 2007 by xtra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Id take Moss last,Id rather have any wide reciever that wont quit on me when things arent going our way. Steve Largent is better than Moss any day in my book,he didnt have the skills or potential that Moss has,but he had heart ,pride and was an over achiever,3 things that Moss lacks. ie: skin color Nice stats by the dude. http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/7436/largent.html Team Rec Yds Avg TD 1976 Seattle 54 705 13.0 4 1977 Seattle 33 643 19.4 10 1978 Seattle 71 1168 16.5 8 1979 Seattle 66 1237 18.7 9 1980 Seattle 66 1064 16.1 6 1981 Seattle 75 1224 16.3 9 1982 Seattle-x 34 493 14.5 3 1983 Seattle 72 1074 14.9 11 1984 Seattle 74 1164 15.7 12 1985 Seattle 79 1287 16.3 6 1986 Seattle 70 1070 15.3 9 1987 Seattle 58 912 15.7 8 1988 Seattle 39 645 16.5 2 1989 Seattle 28 403 14.4 3 Totals 819 13089 16.0 100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Id take Moss last,Id rather have any wide reciever that wont quit on me when things arent going our way. Steve Largent is better than Moss any day in my book,he didnt have the skills or potential that Moss has,but he had heart ,pride and was an over achiever,3 things that Moss lacks. No way is a guy that did not draw double coverage better than Moss. I loved Largent...but you could not put a gun to my head and make me say he is better than Moss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Cheezhead Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 I would agree with Swiss about wanting Moss for one game. He is probably the most gifted WR ever. For sheer physical dominance, I'd take Moss. But the guy has been a knucklehead his entire career. If I was drafting a team, Moss might not be in my top 5. He has already bounced around to three teams, had plenty of off and on the field incidents, and shown that when things aren't going well, he is a quitter. Not the kind of guy I would want to draft out of college hoping to find a #1 WR for years to come. Can't argue with that. That's why it's impossible to define "best ever." Is it best ability on the field? How much does "best" quantify a player's ability to give his all for your team for a decade-plus. Both questions are interesting and important in the football sense, but they're just totally different. To me, the "best ever" discussion HAS to center around the all-other-things-equal-for-one-game concept. Otherwise, there's hardly any room for conversation. Rice is the best receiver ever, Emmitt Smith is the best runner ever, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 WaterMan, Now, I'm not saying I'd rank Largent that high. But did you ever see him play? Could you name the quarterbacks he played with? Or are you just going by a glance of his statistics? And the fact you know he is white? And your sig line is still wrong dumbass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 And your sig line is still wrong dumbass! I like to make you type more than you have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 WaterMan, Now, I'm not saying I'd rank Largent that high. But did you ever see him play? Could you name the quarterbacks he played with? Or are you just going by a glance of his statistics? And the fact you know he is white? And your sig line is still wrong dumbass! Jim Zorn was the greatest QB to EVER have a Z as the 1st letter in his name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Cheezhead Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 No I got the point, it would be Rice in his prime. I have a habit of going off anytime I bring up Rice and wander off in all directions I am a SF fan but when you talk about a bigger advantage, even for one game, I still say Rice. He was IMO a much more complete WR, he could catch the ball anywhere on the field, off any route and in a clutch situations he always found ways to get open and be at the right place at the right time, not that Moss can't do those things also but IMO Rice did them better. If that one game came down to a 4th quarter drive I would feel much better having Rice out there than Moss. Now THAT'S the on-the-field reasoning I was looking for. I disagree, but I respect your rationale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle4life Posted October 20, 2007 Author Share Posted October 20, 2007 Id take Moss last,Id rather have any wide reciever that wont quit on me when things arent going our way. Steve Largent is better than Moss any day in my book,he didnt have the skills or potential that Moss has,but he had heart ,pride and was an over achiever,3 things that Moss lacks. i 100% agree on that with you about Steve Largent.I was waiting for his name to pop up in this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtra Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 No way is a guy that did not draw double coverage better than Moss. I loved Largent...but you could not put a gun to my head and make me say he is better than Moss. When Largent retired, he held all major NFL receiving records, including: most receptions in a career (819), most receiving yards in a career (13,089), and most touchdown receptions (101). He was also in possession of a then-record streak of 177 consecutive regular-season games with a reception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 When Largent retired, he held all major NFL receiving records, including: most receptions in a career (819), most receiving yards in a career (13,089), and most touchdown receptions (101). He was also in possession of a then-record streak of 177 consecutive regular-season games with a reception. Almost 20 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF409ers Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Can't argue with that. That's why it's impossible to define "best ever." Is it best ability on the field? How much does "best" quantify a player's ability to give his all for your team for a decade-plus. Both questions are interesting and important in the football sense, but they're just totally different. To me, the "best ever" discussion HAS to center around the all-other-things-equal-for-one-game concept. Otherwise, there's hardly any room for conversation. Rice is the best receiver ever, Emmitt Smith is the best runner ever, etc. I agree that is hard if not impossible to define the "best /greatest ever". When I think about answering that question, even if just for one game, I think about it terms of the best football player at that position. The guy who not only has the physical skills but the football skills, the ability to rise to an occasion, lift up those around them, act as a leader, step up when it's crunch time and deliver for the TEAM. That is a lot of what I consider when I say without question that Jerry Rice was the best WR of all time or just for one game and even if Moss had the same circumstances, Rice is still better because of those qualities. Moss is cut from the same cloth as Owens and Chad Johnson and IMO no matter how much "talent" or "athletic" ability they have they will NEVER be as great as Jerry Rice. His numbers / records speak for themselves as far as a career are concerned but being great has more to do with IMO just talent, a player has to BE able to BE great and a lot of times that is just as much up to the player as it is the circumstance. Of course again this just my opinion and how I define the best or greatest. I am sure one could debate the qualities of greatness all day as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Almost 20 years ago. So someone who played over 20 years ago is disqualified from being in the best ever argument? You truly are an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtra Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Almost 20 years ago. Even more impressive Now go look at the teams record for each year,he didnt HAVE to be on a winning team to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Even more impressive Now go look at the teams record for each year,he didnt HAVE to be on a winning team to play. Garbage time stats eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtra Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 (edited) Garbage time stats eh? Of course,how else do you own 4 records when you retire Edited October 21, 2007 by xtra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghengis_chan Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 The only way you can gage and rank these guys from different eras and on Dynasty teams is the bottom line stats. Most yards, Td's, etc... you can't even go by the "what If's" like the Great Barry Sanders debate....the WR, RB, QB, can all be ranked by stats... Rice #1 WR...No Debate...Emmitt #1 RB....Can be no debate....Farve #1 QB...Again no debate... Gotta call em as they are... Pull out the stats regardless of other accolades like SB MVP etc.....Throw those out the window.... think Doug Williams here...great game , average career. Rank them all by their positions and stats....Nuff Said!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElwayFan2007 Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Would anyone venture to say Herman Moore as in Top 10?!! Moss if you go purely on statistics, atheleticism and talent yes without a doubt top 5. But his attitude and leadership... drops him down IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Randy Moss is pure greatness but he needs more to his career just to be better than any WR he played with (Cris Carter). This comment f'n floors me. IF Moss was in Dallas right now, you would say Moss is a cancer. Because he lines up for the team you support, he is pure greatness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 When Largent retired, he held all major NFL receiving records, including: most receptions in a career (819), most receiving yards in a career (13,089), and most touchdown receptions (101). He was also in possession of a then-record streak of 177 consecutive regular-season games with a reception. Yes,I know of his records...and they are impressive..but he did not help the other players on his team by drawing coverage his way. he also was the benficiary of lots of garbage throws as his team was basically horrible the whole time he played there. Once again...I loved Largent...but a guy that did not draw double teams deserves no mention here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Jerry Rice is the best WR ever. In fact he is probably the only player at any position that you can say without a doubt is the best ever to play that position. Though I think Deion Sanders was the best CB of all time, some will say Champ Bailey. QB, RB, LB OL, there are at least 3-5 guys that one could argue was the best ever. Jerry Rice is hands down the best ever. Stats, big play abiliity, clutch, work ethic, durability, longevity, teams set out to stop him, and couldnt. The list goes on and one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF409ers Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Jerry Rice is the best WR ever. In fact he is probably the only player at any position that you can say without a doubt is the best ever to play that position. Though I think Deion Sanders was the best CB of all time, some will say Champ Bailey. QB, RB, LB OL, there are at least 3-5 guys that one could argue was the best ever. Jerry Rice is hands down the best ever. Stats, big play abiliity, clutch, work ethic, durability, longevity, teams set out to stop him, and couldnt. The list goes on and one. And that my friends is all she wrote!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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