Why can't I put Brady in the same league as Peyton?

[LooGie]

First things first, I've always said, as a player, I'd love Brady on my team, especially when needing a game winning drive. I've also always said, I'd rather have Peyton.

 

In years past, this argument was sound, and as solid as could be. Some could make a case that Brady was better, but mostly it was the SuperBowl wins, and usually that argument was made by Pats homers anyway. Most everyone just accepted Brady as the #2 best in the league, and Peyton was Big Daddy.

 

This year, Brady is having a season to end all seasons (quite literally actually). We might as well not watch football after this, because with LT last year, and Brady, Moss and Belichik this year, we've seen it all.

 

But even after Brady and his 27th TD pass...by week 7...I am still thinking Peyton is better, and I'd rather have Peyton on my team. But why?

 

I haven't been able to put my finger on it. I was just chocking it up to how much I hate the Patriots, and how much I think Brady is a hollywood cry baby, especially after IND routed NE a few years ago, and Brady wouldn't answer questions. But in all honestly, I can be very fair and subjective when it comes to analyzing any team in the NFL, even my own Panthers. In fact, I might be too hard on my own team. So i couldn't really accept that answer. But i didn't have any other possible explanation. Brady is playing out of his damn mind, and Peyton is "just great" this season. Why would I rather have Peyton?

 

Then it dawned on me. I heard Madden say "Brady's doing what the other 31 starting QBs are doing, but he's making it look easy" And that's exactly it.

 

Except, he's not doing what 31 other QBs are doing, he's doing what 30 other QBs are doing, and making it look easy. Nobody, NOBODY does what Manning does, from calling plays at the line of scrimmage, to managing a game, to threading a perfect pass, to even calling plays when he's not in the game (remember when Dungy sits the starters and Peyton is calling plays in to the backup? yah...)

 

When anyone watches an Indy game, it's painfully obvious that Manning has control of every aspect of the game, every single snap, every single look, play and pass and run. He doesnt make it look easy. He wows everyone with his ability to single handedly control a game, and it's obvious how difficult it truly is. But he makes THAT look easy.

 

Brady plays the QB position great, and this year, better than anyone, ever has, or probably ever will. Except maybe next year's Brady. Or the year after's.

 

Brady and Manning as a QB is probably a toss up, but Peyton is a damn offensive coordinator in pads, and not only that, but a very good OC. Better than probably 20 other actual OCs in the league.

 

He's a future Head Coach, w/o a doubt, and one of the best QBs to ever play. I think he will go down as the greatest of all time still, but only based on what I said. Strictly speaking, anyone, from here on out, will forever be able to make an argument that Brady is better though.

 

Not sure why I'm posting this. It's just that i've been perplexed at why I would rather have Peyton, when all the signs showing that there's no reason to not want Brady instead.

[Jackass]

[The Wolf]

The question is an intriguing one...Brady/Manning is really tough to decide and you make a valid argument for Manning. Well thought out and well written.

 

Would Manning be able to do what he does not with someone other Dungy as HC? Would Belichick allow him to run a game like this? To that question, would Brady be able to run the game if Dungy were his HC?

 

Just throwing it open for discussion here. Some feel Manning can be annoying to watch but I really am awed by how he is in complete control of a game. He outthinks some very shrewd defensive minds.

[LooGie]

The question is an intriguing one...Brady/Manning is really tough to decide and you make a valid argument for Manning. Well thought out and well written.

 

Would Manning be able to do what he does not with someone other Dungy as HC? Would Belichick allow him to run a game like this? To that question, would Brady be able to run the game if Dungy were his HC?

 

Just throwing it open for discussion here. Some feel Manning can be annoying to watch but I really am awed by how he is in complete control of a game. He outthinks some very shrewd defensive minds.

Great reply, and I appreciate you not just responding w/ an emoticon.

 

Alot of people do hate Manning, but it can usually be written off to envy, or pure homerism for another team. I am always completely awed at them lining up with damn near a minute on the play clock, and him being able to call a play, right there, w/o the defense figuring it out..all the while reading blitzes and coverage and THEN calling an audible of the play HE JUST called. He's something special, and everytime i watch him, i realize why I love football so much.

 

We can all be awed by Moss being wide open 60 yards downfield and Brady hitting him with PINPOINT accuracy, or Moss being double covered and Brady hitting Welker with PINPOINT accuracy...60 yards downfield (or even throwing to Moss anyway for a 60 yard TD).

 

But that's being awed by QB play. Manning is being awed by football. That was what I just couldn't put my finger on, and I was just not capable of putting that into words earlier.

[Caveman_Nick]

The question is an intriguing one...Brady/Manning is really tough to decide and you make a valid argument for Manning. Well thought out and well written.

 

Would Manning be able to do what he does not with someone other Dungy as HC? Would Belichick allow him to run a game like this? To that question, would Brady be able to run the game if Dungy were his HC?

 

Just throwing it open for discussion here. Some feel Manning can be annoying to watch but I really am awed by how he is in complete control of a game. He outthinks some very shrewd defensive minds.

 

I think that you have to add the Tom Moore factor into the equation. Peyton has had the same OC and been working in the same offense for about his entire career.

 

That's not a knock on him, it's just a statement of fact. The relationship he's developed with his OC and the scheme that they have undoubtedly worked on together is a hugh part of why he can do what he does and be so effective at it.

 

I am not sure how many other QBs currently in the NFL could perform similarly given the same circumstances.....but the first one that comes to mind is Brady.

 

I think it is also pretty important to consider that the Colts run a much simpler offense than the Pats do. They just execute it so effeiciently and fantastically that they make opposing defenses look like college programs. And that has to be at least somewhat attributed to consistency in scheme and personnel.

 

They are both great QBs, and I would not even bother to try to argue who is better (Although I also tend to lean towards Manning), but the fact is that they do different things and have had different circumstances. I'd take either on my team without batting an eye.

[isleseeya]

pretty good and fair argument ...I like both qb's alot and i honestly do not know who i would choose if i had to choose just one

[MikesVikes]

Brady came close to beating Manning's team last year in the playoffs. If that would've happened, it would be all Brady beating the Indy team that had a very, very good season. Brady is as good of an NFL QB or better than Manning. Up to this point of the 2007 season, he has added the title "better fantasy option" to his list of accomplishments.

[LooGie]

I think that you have to add the Tom Moore factor into the equation. Peyton has had the same OC and been working in the same offense for about his entire career.

 

That's not a knock on him, it's just a statement of fact. The relationship he's developed with his OC and the scheme that they have undoubtedly worked on together is a hugh part of why he can do what he does and be so effective at it.

 

I am not sure how many other QBs currently in the NFL could perform similarly given the same circumstances.....but the first one that comes to mind is Brady.

 

I think it is also pretty important to consider that the Colts run a much simpler offense than the Pats do. They just execute it so effeiciently and fantastically that they make opposing defenses look like college programs. And that has to be at least somewhat attributed to consistency in scheme and personnel.

 

They are both great QBs, and I would not even bother to try to argue who is better (Although I also tend to lean towards Manning), but the fact is that they do different things and have had different circumstances. I'd take either on my team without batting an eye.

I'm not sure I agree with this statement. Admittedly, I'm ignorant to how scheme's work in different systems, under different coach's and players, so I would appreciate if you could elaborate.

 

Based on what I do know, I think the Colts run a more complex system. No huddle, tons of audibles. I see the brass having to change the scheme and gameplan immediately if Manning was to ever go down. Even for one play, everything up to that point is out the window, and i think it would be that with about 27 other QB's starting for them. Brady and maybe Palmer might be able to pull it off, but not nearly as effectively as Peyton imo.

[Bill Swerski]

I think it is also pretty important to consider that the Colts run a much simpler offense than the Pats do.

 

Pass over some of what you're smokin'.

 

When a reporter asked Anthony Gonzalez how he was adjusting to Indy's offense this summer, he said that the curve for learning the 1000+ plays that Peyton routinely calls from the line was steep. Keep in mind that Gonzalez turned down Stanford Law School to play in the NFL, so he isn't exactly a typical mentally-challenged pro athlete. Not only does he have to know the full playbook, he also has to know the audibles (which I assume change frequently to keep defenses honest) and the hand signals that they use in place of them on the road.

 

Moore's hurry-up offense puts a ton of pressure on the QB, both mentally and physically. I'll go out on a limb and say that the Colts' offense is probably the most difficult to run as a QB and one of the most complex.

 

They are both great QBs, and I would not even bother to try to argue who is better (Although I also tend to lean towards Manning), but the fact is that they do different things and have had different circumstances. I'd take either on my team without batting an eye.

 

I agree with that. They've been asked to do very different things on their respective teams and each have their strengths and weaknesses.

[polksalet]

Put Cleo Lemon in those systems and you would get the same results

[Jackass]

Brady reads defenses just as well as Manning. Some would even argue that he does it better.

[Bill Swerski]

How do you explain Peyton Mannings continuously found ways to blame the continuous losses against the Pats and Steelers by throwing his receivers and o-line under the bus. I never seen Brady do that.

 

When has Peyton ever thrown one of his receivers under the bus? Or are you referring to the, "I"m not trying to be a bad teammate, but we had some pass protection problems" line? Or do you have something more than that one sentence?

 

Geez, you people need to find some new material.

[CaptainHook]

Mannings "audible calling" is overated. He literally stands at the line calling dummy plays like baseball players. Its all smoke and mirrors. Lets just say thats its not and its real how could you compare that to Brady who literally runs a no huddle majority of the game.

Um, wrong. Manning can audible to ANY play in the playbook. There have been cases where they also make plays up on the fly. In the AFC Championship, Brian Fletcher suggested a corner route that ended up being the key play to the final drive. Manning ok'd it in the huddle. The Colts go to the line with 3 plays called. 2 running plays and a pass. Manning chooses which one based on the D. If he doesn't like any of them, he can audible to a completely different play.

 

And I haven't really noticed it this year, but Brady has used a wrist band to call plays for most of his career.

Edited October 26, 2007 by CaptainHook

[LooGie]

Brady reads defenses just as well as Manning. Some would even argue that he does it better.

I'm calling BS here. In fact, I'm surprised there's one person on the planet that would say that. Brady find the open receiver like a God, but reads defenses better than Peyton. No...no not at all.

 

How do you explain Peyton Mannings continuously found ways to blame the continuous losses against the Pats and Steelers by throwing his receivers and o-line under the bus. I never seen Brady do that.

When has Peyton ever thrown one of his receivers under the bus? Or are you referring to the, "I"m not trying to be a bad teammate, but we had some pass protection problems" line? Or do you have something more than that one sentence?

 

Geez, you people need to find some new material.

Actually the line was "i'm trying to be a good teammate here...protection problems" Guess what? they did have protection problems. This is the most over rated statement ever. He was classy, and he was asked why they lost. He spent more time on his back than in his whole career that game, and if he woulda left out the "i'm trying to be a good teammate" part, nobody would've even picked up on it.

 

Mannings "audible calling" is overated. He literally stands at the line calling dummy plays like baseball players. Its all smoke and mirrors. Lets just say thats its not and its real how could you compare that to Brady who literally runs a no huddle majority of the game.

[LooGie]

Mmmokay? It clearly sound as though Manning stabbed his linemen in the back. The same group that protected his arm all season. Blaming everyone else and taking none is not what a leader does or do they?. Maybe his daddy can get his oline traded.

Okay, i figured it out. You're a Pats homer right? Big John?

 

blaming everyone else? taking none for himself? that's rich. Seriously...that's borderline hysterical.

[LooGie]

How do you know he can audible into any play? Just like we don't know whats on Bradys wrist band. It could be Mannings records or his honey do list. Please tell us whats on his wrist band since you know these players so well.

Not only can he audible to any play, I believe he has 4 plays to choose from.

 

Not only that, but remember a few years ago when it was 4th and long, and Dungy sends out the punting unit and Peyton sent them back? Yah, he's free reign buddy, and it's not because he's over rated or a bad leader.

 

 

edit: oh yah, and he converted that 4th too.

Edited October 26, 2007 by LooGie

[Big John]

Okay, i figured it out. You're a Pats homer right? Big John?

 

blaming everyone else? taking none for himself? that's rich. Seriously...that's borderline hysterical.

He is an Only In America alias. And a Bears homer.

[bill2]

you have to be kidding me. for years everyone wondered what brady could do if he had receivers like manning. this year he finally does and he is head and shouders better than manning.

the only thing that manning beats brady at is the amount of commercials he does!

[Bill Swerski]

Mmmokay? It clearly sound as though Manning stabbed his linemen in the back. The same group that protected his arm all season. Blaming everyone else and taking none is not what a leader does or do they?. Maybe his daddy can get his oline traded.

 

Nah, it was more like a QB giving an explanation of why their offense struggled to move the ball. How convenient of you to forget that his linemen came out in support of him after that statement. And if you know anything about the Colts, you know that Jeff Saturday in particular doesn't toe the company line if he disagrees with Peyton.

 

This response is typical of a large and vocal segment of Pats fans. Almost as immature as Brady refusing to answer questions from the media after losses or going ballistic on Marty Schottenheimer for daring to suggest that injuries to the Pats were working against them.

 

In the AFC Championship, Brian Fletcher suggested a corner route

 

Hence his nickname: "The Suggestion Box"

[Bill Swerski]

He is an Only In America alias.

 

And that explains why he's such a douchebag.

[CaptainHook]

How do you know he can audible into any play? Just like we don't know whats on Bradys wrist band. It could be Mannings records or his honey do list. Please tell us whats on his wrist band since you know these players so well.

Umm, because of interviews done with players?

 

I've seen Brady reading off the play off his wristband in the huddle. I highly doubt he's reading off his honey do list in the fourth quarter. But I'm just guessing.

[Crazysight]

you have to be kidding me. for years everyone wondered what brady could do if he had receivers like manning. this year he finally does and he is head and shouders better than manning.

the only thing that manning beats brady at is the amount of commercials he does!

 

+1.

 

Brady is and has always been more clutch than Manning, which is why he is the better quarterback. Even in last year's playoffs Manning struggled on the whole, with the notable exception of that one half that did New England in.

Edited October 27, 2007 by Crazysight

[Caveman_Nick]

Pass over some of what you're smokin'.

 

When a reporter asked Anthony Gonzalez how he was adjusting to Indy's offense this summer, he said that the curve for learning the 1000+ plays that Peyton routinely calls from the line was steep. Keep in mind that Gonzalez turned down Stanford Law School to play in the NFL, so he isn't exactly a typical mentally-challenged pro athlete. Not only does he have to know the full playbook, he also has to know the audibles (which I assume change frequently to keep defenses honest) and the hand signals that they use in place of them on the road.

 

 

Wow. I have no Idea what you are thinking....

 

All NFL teams have hugh playbooks.

 

As an Indy fan I would think you would know that Indy runs a base personnell group up and down the field. Mostly the same people all the time. Sure, the receivers line up in different spots and run different routes, etc. Sure, their offense isn't "simple". I never said it was.

 

I said it was much simpler than the Patriots offense.

 

The Patriots use 3-4 RBs in different combos, 4 WRs with regularity in different combinations, 3 TE's interchangeably, and they do this on pretty much any down and distance up and down the field.

 

Indy's strength on offense is in consistency and execution. The Patriots strength stems much more from defenses never knowing what the heck they are going to do.

 

 

 

Moore's hurry-up offense puts a ton of pressure on the QB, both mentally and physically. I'll go out on a limb and say that the Colts' offense is probably the most difficult to run as a QB and one of the most complex.

 

Yes it's physically difficult, and anytime you put additional responsibility on a player the way they do with Manning, it is mentally taxing. But their offense isn't overly complex and tricky, at least in games I have seen. They just flat out beat the other teams with talent and execution. Peyton puts the ball in the perfect spot, and the receivers catch it. No tricks, just greatness of execution.

[Outshined]

I think that you have to add the Tom Moore factor into the equation. Peyton has had the same OC and been working in the same offense for about his entire career.

 

That's not a knock on him, it's just a statement of fact. The relationship he's developed with his OC and the scheme that they have undoubtedly worked on together is a hugh part of why he can do what he does and be so effective at it.

 

I am not sure how many other QBs currently in the NFL could perform similarly given the same circumstances.....but the first one that comes to mind is Brady.

 

I think it is also pretty important to consider that the Colts run a much simpler offense than the Pats do. They just execute it so effeiciently and fantastically that they make opposing defenses look like college programs. And that has to be at least somewhat attributed to consistency in scheme and personnel.

 

They are both great QBs, and I would not even bother to try to argue who is better (Although I also tend to lean towards Manning), but the fact is that they do different things and have had different circumstances. I'd take either on my team without batting an eye.

 

 

I agree and is that the same offense that Jim Kelly and the Bills ran in the early 90's with hugh success?

[bigballer]

I think brady gets an awful lot of credit for being a good game manager on the best team in football, but manning is the best qb. Before this season who did everyone think was the best qb? Most everyone would say manning because he finally won the big one. That was the only thing keeping people from saying it before. Brady rating goes up because of his 3 super bowls, but who is to say that the patriots wouldn't of won with bledsoe. If it wasn't for bledsoe taking over for a hurt(also struggling at the time) brady, we might not even be having this debate. Now another factor is the MOSS factor. Look at Moss' history, when he is on his game, of making average qb look great (culpepper, brad johnson, aged randall cunningham, aged jeff george, hell even Todd Bouman looked like and all-pro throwing the ball up to Moss. Now you take a qb of brady's above average ability and add moss and it is easy. Moss makes it easy for a qb to read coverage. You know they are gonna double him so you figure out who the second man is and that leaves your other receiver open. If they don't double him, game over. And sometimes even if they do double him, throw it anyway. If you gave manning a weapon like moss, it would be the same result if not more.