Why can't I put Brady in the same league as Peyton?

[Caveman_Nick]

Um, if you want to believe that the Colts never substitute players, that's fine. The truth is that they regularly use three different TEs (one of whom plays the "Y" and "Z" receiver positions) and have been running a quasi-RBBC for the past year and a half, often switching out backs in the middle of drives.

 

 

Er....that isn't even close to what I said. You are a Colts fan, aren't you? Because if you are, you know that one of the main tactics that the Colts use on offesne is not substituting personnel, and if the tired defense tries to do so running a fast snap to trip them up with a 12 men penalty, etc. They do this all the time.

 

I said they keep their personnel shifts relatively limited to points of play stoppage. That does not say they 'never' do it.

 

Again.....I am not here to convince you. All you need to do is watch the two teams to see the obvious differences in what they do. The Patriots beat opponents more regularly with gameplan designed to beat that opponent (read complexity), and the Colts beat opponents more regularly with their near flawless execution, knowing that the opposing team just can't stop them no matter what they do.

 

I don't see why this creates such a problem for you.

[Bill Swerski]

Er....that isn't even close to what I said. You are a Colts fan, aren't you? Because if you are, you know that one of the main tactics that the Colts use on offesne is not substituting personnel, and if the tired defense tries to do so running a fast snap to trip them up with a 12 men penalty, etc. They do this all the time.

 

I said they keep their personnel shifts relatively limited to points of play stoppage. That does not say they 'never' do it.

 

Again.....I am not here to convince you. All you need to do is watch the two teams to see the obvious differences in what they do. The Patriots beat opponents more regularly with gameplan designed to beat that opponent (read complexity), and the Colts beat opponents more regularly with their near flawless execution, knowing that the opposing team just can't stop them no matter what they do.

 

I don't see why this creates such a problem for you.

 

It's not a problem. Nor does running a no-huddle offense AT TIMES (they don't run it all of the time, but you don't seem to acknowledge that) make the Colts offense "much less complex" than any other team's. I don't see why that's so difficult for you to understand. While I agree that their running game is relatively simple, their passing game is as complex as anybody's. The fact that they'll use the same players on the field for five or six straight plays doesn't make what they do through the air "less complex" than what the Patriots do.

Edited October 29, 2007 by Bill Swerski

[Shorttynaz]

How do you explain Peyton Mannings continuously found ways to blame the continuous losses against the Pats and Steelers by throwing his receivers and o-line under the bus. I never seen Brady do that.

I'm really not trying to start WW3 here cause there's WAY too many people that jump to conclusion and just start to get defensive. However I am asking you to PLEASE refresh my memory (as well as everyone else's) as to another time (for you said continuously) - other than the loss to the Steelers in the 2006 playoffs - when Peyton has thrown his "receivers and o-line" under the bus. I'm not the one who said it, I'm just looking for your justification to type something that is just not true. Thanks.

[Crazysight]

Whatever. When the Pats bury Indy next week the same way they have all these other teams maybe you'll be able to "put him in the same league" then.

[manhattan nights]

Brady Post Season Stats:

2001 oak W,16-13

2001 pit W,24-17

*2001 stl W,20-17

2003 ten W,17-14

2003 ind W,24-14

*2003 car W,32-29

2004 ind W,20-3

2004 pit W,41-27

*2004 phi W,24-21

2005 jax W,28-3

2005 den L,13-27

2006 nyj W,37-16

2006 sdg W,24-21

2006 ind L,34-38

 

12-2 and 3 SB Rings

 

Peyton Manning Postseason Stats:

1999 ten L,16-19

2000 mia L,17-23

2002 nyj L,0-41

2003 den W,41-10

2003 kan W,38-31

2003 nwe L,14-24

2004 den W,49-24

2004 nwe L,3-20

2005 pit L,18-21

2006 kan W,23-8

2006 bal W,15-6

2006 nwe W,38-34

*2006 chi W,29-17

 

7-6 1 SB Ring

 

Brady is 2-1 against Manning in the playoffs and has more SB rings. I think Brady pwns Peyton in the Post Season for sure. I don't know how to find out ther regular season records are.

[manhattan nights]

More Stats:

 

MANNING STATS:

Regular season

5,092 passes attempted

3,269 passes completed

39,164 passing yards

286 passing touchdowns

142 passes intercepted

99-52 record as a starter

94.7 quarterback rating (2nd all-time)

7 Pro Bowl appearances[58]

6 All-Pro Selections

 

Post-season

475 passes attempted

290 passes completed

3,495 passing yards

18 passing touchdowns

15 passes intercepted

7-6 postseason record

31.667 passes attempted per interception

 

Brady Stats:

Career (as of October 28, 2007)

78-24 record as a starter (.765 winning percentage)

19.38 passing attempts per touchdown

42.89 passing attempts per interception

7-0 in overtime games

10-1 in dome stadiums

25-4 vs NFC teams

 

Post-season records and statistics

NFL record for most consecutive wins in post season: 10 (broke record of Green Bay's Bart Starr).

Most consecutive post season wins (college and professional combined): 12

3 Super Bowl victories

2 Super Bowl MVP awards

Most completions in a Super Bowl (32 in Super Bowl XXXVIII)

[Duchess Jack]

I have never understood Manning hating.

 

The guy is a brilliant football mind. I has authority in the huddle and mad skills. He is also a great personality and great for the league. I love that he has no problem in making fun of himself.

 

Brady. The only thing that he has on Manning is that he seems like kind of a Megan Fox. He seems to be without personality. He's the Sampress of football. But - the does not make somebody a worse QB. It certainly didn't make Sampress less of a football player. It did make him less likeable though.

 

The biggest difference between the two is that I have only once seen Brady implode. I've seen in a few times in Manning. Brady forces less and thusly throws less INTs. Manning has also had better recievers his whole career. Brady only now has wides of a Colts level.

 

Because of this - I'd give Brady the nod as the better player. I rather have him running my team.

 

The 'classless' issue that everybody is talking about now... with the pats scoring on teams when the game is long over is the first hint of personality that I have seen from Brady (or even the pats) and it makes me like him more... like a villian in a movie that you love to hate...

[manhattan nights]

The Patriots are the new EVIL EMPIRE aka New York Yankees. When your successful your hated and when your the underdog your the hero.

 

Colts -- The Underdog

Patriots -- The Villian

 

Funny until this season the Patriots loved and thrived in the underdog role. Props to Bellichick getting this team up for every game against everyone so called 'A' game. Bellichick is by far the best coach in this league for a few years now. Love him or hate him he's the best and no one can argue his resume. Dungy is the little train that could and is the Rocky Balboa of today.

[Caveman_Nick]

The guy is a brilliant football mind. I has authority in the huddle and mad skills. He is also a great personality and great for the league. I love that he has no problem in making fun of himself.

 

 

I have always hated him because he is soooooooooo freaking good. As a Pats fan who grew up hating the Colts, it was hard not to.

 

But I still think he's amazing, and even though 99% of me roots against him, he is damn fun to watch!

[Doc Holliday]

I know I shouldn't even get into this sidetrack, but even Manning would at that. He's up there for sure, as is Brady, but talk to me 5-10 yrs after they've retired - it's too easy to throw that kind of thing at guys we see playing every Sunday vs guys who haven't been on the field for years, if not decades (why do you think there's a waiting period to get into the HoF, although IMO that's becoming a joke anyway). PS Manning "more or less" calls his own plays, ie he gets 3 in from the OC and chooses one. Granted he audibles a lot too, but it's still not the same as guys like Unitas who called their own plays, period.

 

 

Unitas was great in his day. no doubt about it. but ... Unitas threw 290 TD's with 253 INT's running his own offense in a day when every QB ran his own offense. Manning has thrown 288 TD's with only 142 INT's while running his offense in a day where he is the ONLY QB that runs his own offense.

 

Despite this "sidetrack" I want to get back on point...no QB in todays games calls his own plays besides Manning. he has the best stats..has won a SB and calls his own plays.

[Crazysight]

Brady did indeed inherit a "great team" in terms of defense and special teams: Law, Milloy, Bruschi, Vrabel, Seymour, McGinest, Ted Johnson, Vinatieri, Troy Brown. That's an outstanding collection of talent. I'm counting two likely HOFers in that bunch and possibly two more. And as they lost some of those players to free agency, they added even more talent: Harrison, Wilfork, Colvin, Samuel, Ted Washington, Keith Traylor, etc. Oh, and one of the greatest defensive minds in the history of the league was running the show. You think that might've helped as well?

 

The team that Brady inherited had vastly more defensive talent than any of Peyton's teams. And defense is what wins Super Bowls.

 

Before Brady got behind center, the only really notable name out of that list was Ty Law. Milloy and McGinest were veterans who had been to I believe one Probowl game each during their careers and the rest of that list wasn't even on the map yet. It was the same exact team that had lost 13 of its last 18 games with Bledsoe behind center, and its first 2 games on the Pats first championship season with Drew behind center.

[Bill Swerski]

Before Brady got behind center, the only really notable name out of that list was Ty Law. Milloy and McGinest were veterans who had been to I believe one Probowl game each during their careers and the rest of that list wasn't even on the map yet.

 

If Milloy and McGinest were Pro Bowl-caliber players back then, they were obviously pretty good. Bruschi has also been on the Pats sine, IIRC, '96 and Troy Brown was a solid wideout while complimenting Glenn in the Bledsoe days. And LOL at you ignoring Seymour and Vrabel. They may have not been established at that point, but it doesn't mean that they weren't talented or that Brady was the one who made them great players.

 

It was the same exact team that had lost 13 of its last 18 games with Bledsoe behind center, and its first 2 games on the Pats first championship season with Drew behind center.

 

Yeah, and Bledsoe stepped in and won the '01 AFC Championship game with that "exact same team." You also neglect to mention that most of the coaching staff had turned over at the beginning of 2000. Do you think that might've had something to do with them struggling somewhat? I imagine that Belichick's defense takes some time to learn.

 

Brady was absolutely a major factor in getting the Pats those three rings, but the defense was still their strength. IIRC, the Pats have gone 1-1 in the playoffs in the two Brady-era years in which their defense wasn't in the Top 10.