WaterMan Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Mark it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msaint Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 (edited) Mark it down. The real question is: Did you know this back in August and draft accordingly, or are you telling us this now with all the indisputable evidence on your side? Or is this just an Ugly Tuna impression...? Edited October 29, 2007 by msaint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Mark it down. why do you have a Vick graemlin in this post oh wait i get it he is practicing for the joint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
policyvote Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Like Lamar Smith? Please. A STUD is a player whose talent and skill mean they can and will produce--regardless of offensive system, supporting cast or opponent. Welker is a very nice piece in an incredible puzzle, but he's no more of a stud than Brandon Stokely. Peace policy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted October 29, 2007 Author Share Posted October 29, 2007 (edited) Like Lamar Smith? Please. A STUD is a player whose talent and skill mean they can and will produce--regardless of offensive system, supporting cast or opponent. Welker is a very nice piece in an incredible puzzle, but he's no more of a stud than Brandon Stokely. Peace policy I'd like to see Stokely return kicks. He'd get hurt on the first play or slide to avoid getting hit. Edited October 29, 2007 by WaterMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliaz Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Mark it down. You are an idiot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepinmofo Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 You are an idiot +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 You are an idiot I believe we have a consensus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
policyvote Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 I'd like to see Stokely return kicks. He'd get hurt on the first play or slide to avoid getting hit. Yes, because all true stud wideouts are also special teams starters. Welker must be better than Randy Moss because when the K ball comes out, Moss is on the pine and Welker is on the field! Peace policy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Irish Doggy Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Welker is a stud, I had a strong hunch he would fit right in at NE and got him in a June dynasty league rookie & leftover vets draft roughly equivalent to the 18th round of a normal league. How'd you do, WM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebdog Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 he's a nice player in an offense that's going to break multiple records for a season. he's no stud. he scored one TD in the first five weeks. he got a garbage time TD yesterday. Brady's a stud. Moss is a stud. Welker is fortunate to be where he is. but again, he's a nice player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenthug Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Like Lamar Smith? Please. A STUD is a player whose talent and skill mean they can and will produce--regardless of offensive system, supporting cast or opponent. Welker is a very nice piece in an incredible puzzle, but he's no more of a stud than Brandon Stokely. Peace policy Welker is a fantasy football STUD, and that's what we're talking about here aren't we? There are very few, if any NFL players that will succeed regardless of system, oppenent, supporting cast. Ask LJ what its' like running behind an ageing offensive line. How's Gore been doing w/o a passing game? If Moss is a stud as you say, why didn't he succeed in Oakland, despite the poor system? Rock solid argument you got here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebdog Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Welker is a fantasy football STUD, and that's what we're talking about here aren't we? There are very few, if any NFL players that will succeed regardless of system, oppenent, supporting cast. Ask LJ what its' like running behind an ageing offensive line. How's Gore been doing w/o a passing game? If Moss is a stud as you say, why didn't he succeed in Oakland, despite the poor system? Rock solid argument you got here. take Welker away and Moss is still Moss. take Moss away and Welker suffers a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenthug Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 take Welker away and Moss is still Moss.take Moss away and Welker suffers a lot. take away Brady, and i'd agree w/ that statement. As long as the Pats have at least one WR to stretch the field and continue to throw as often as they have, i don't think losing Moss would be that big a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenthug Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 take Welker away and Moss is still Moss.take Moss away and Welker suffers a lot. Then please explain why Moss couldn't catch a cold in Oakland? Are ya'll forgetting he was almost worthless until he got to the Pats? Moss' value is derived from Brady, just as Welkers is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Irish Doggy Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Brady's a stud. Moss is a stud. Welker is fortunate to be where he is. but again, he's a nice player. Previous to this season, none of the three was a "stud", but they are this year. Brady has never sniffed this kind of production. He's never been a stud QB, although certainly a good to solid #1 in fantasy terms. Heck he's matched last years total points production through this week. Moss' last two seasons speak against his studliness. More people were against him making a come back this year than for. Word was he'd lost a step and his motivation. Welker is exactly the kind of guy NE had thrived on in the past. Quick, tough, and short. Its no surprise he's doing well in that system. However, putting them all together is making for the most lethal offense since Warner, Faulk, Holt and Bruce ruled STL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Are ya'll forgetting he was almost worthless until he got to the Pats? Moss' value is derived from Brady, just as Welkers is. Yeah, he sure sucked in Minnesota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Yeah, he sure sucked in Minnesota. did he get the NO CALLS on PI in the end zone in Minn like he did in NE yesterdsay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 I could care less whether he's considered a stud or not. As long as he keeps doing what he's doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
policyvote Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Then please explain why Moss couldn't catch a cold in Oakland? Because Moss "plays when he wanna play", and when he realized what a total train wreck Oakland was, he didn't give a tin crap about "playing". Welker is having a great year, strictly because Brady has decided to throw 5 TDs a game, and they can't all go to Moss. You will have to explain to me how Welker is any better or different than a Kevis Curtis, Shaun McDonald, or other speedster who's found a niche after a change of scenery. It just so happens that Welker's found a hell of a niche. Peace policy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenthug Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Because Moss "plays when he wanna play", and when he realized what a total train wreck Oakland was, he didn't give a tin crap about "playing". Welker is having a great year, strictly because Brady has decided to throw 5 TDs a game, and they can't all go to Moss. You will have to explain to me how Welker is any better or different than a Kevis Curtis, Shaun McDonald, or other speedster who's found a niche after a change of scenery. It just so happens that Welker's found a hell of a niche. Peace policy once again, we're talking fantasy football here right? If so, the difference for Moss is the same for Welker....he has a guy named Brady throwing him the ball. He's targeted more than any WR on the NFL's best offense. I was replying to your initial post that a STUD excels no matter the system or players around him, which is fiction. Moss succeeded in Minnesota b/c they he had a great long ball QB, and other WR's to draw attention. Simply being Moss is not enough, as you said earlier. So as long as Welker is a WR for NE....he's a stud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickvick Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 The one owner in my league who is a die-hard Pats fan put Welker on waivers 3 weeks ago for Andre Davis.Go figure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 once again, we're talking fantasy football here right? If so, the difference for Moss is the same for Welker....he has a guy named Brady throwing him the ball. He's targeted more than any WR on the NFL's best offense. I was replying to your initial post that a STUD excels no matter the system or players around him, which is fiction. Moss succeeded in Minnesota b/c they he had a great long ball QB, and other WR's to draw attention. Simply being Moss is not enough, as you said earlier. So as long as Welker is a WR for NE....he's a stud. Are you saying Welker is as much of a fantasy stud as Moss? That'd be quite a reach, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
policyvote Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 (edited) I was replying to your initial post that a STUD excels no matter the system or players around him, which is fiction. Moss succeeded in Minnesota b/c they he had a great long ball QB, and other WR's to draw attention. Simply being Moss is not enough, as you said earlier. No, being Moss is plenty enough. He's fantastically talented, and when he gives better than about 40% effort, he's a weapon against any defense. Remember, he walked into this league and caught 17 TDs . . . more than Cris Carter or Jake Reed or anyone else to whom Duante Culpepper has ever thrown the ball. Moss had elite talent and production long before he donned a Patriots uniform; Welker is a hard worker and a talented player but he's simply not in the same category. Where was Welker's stud production last year, or even a few weeks ago? He puts a couple nice games back-to-back, when his QB is generating a minimum of three TDs passes a game and often many more, and you pronounce him a fantasy "stud". BS. What happens when Welker goes up against an elite corner? Oh, that's right, he probably won't this season because he's the second- (and arguably third-) most dangerous wideout on the field. But if he did, what would happen? Welker would get shut down and Brady would just throw 5 TDs to Moss and Stallworth and Vrabel and whoever the hell else. Brady spreads it around like crazy, just ask any of the owners who've had Troy Brown, Deion Branch, David Givens, or any of the other mediocre wideouts that Brady has thrown to in lesser years. Brady is doubling his production, and therefore everyone who can catch a pass in NE is getting mad love. Welker has to produce for the rest of this year and all of next season before we can even begin slapping the "stud" tag on him. Peace policy Edited October 29, 2007 by policyvote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenthug Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 No, being Moss is plenty enough. He's fantastically talented, and when he gives better than about 40% effort, he's a weapon against any defense. Remember, he walked into this league and caught 17 TDs . . . more than Cris Carter or Jake Reed or anyone else to whom Duante Culpepper has ever thrown the ball. Moss had elite talent and production long before he donned a Patriots uniform; Welker is a hard worker and a talented player but he's simply not in the same category. Where was Welker's stud production last year, or even a few weeks ago? He puts a couple nice games back-to-back, when his QB is generating a minimum of three TDs passes a game and often many more, and you pronounce him a fantasy "stud". BS. What happens when Welker goes up against an elite corner? Oh, that's right, he probably won't this season because he's the second- (and arguably third-) most dangerous wideout on the field. But if he did, what would happen? Welker would get shut down and Brady would just throw 5 TDs to Moss and Stallworth and Vrabel and whoever the hell else. Brady spreads it around like crazy, just ask any of the owners who've had Troy Brown, Deion Branch, David Givens, or any of the other mediocre wideouts that Brady has thrown to in lesser years. Brady is doubling his production, and therefore everyone who can catch a pass in NE is getting mad love. Welker has to produce for the rest of this year and all of next season before we can even begin slapping the "stud" tag on him. Peace policy Once again, we're talking fantasy football right? I can't argue that Moss and Welker are equal talents, that'd be obsurd. But you keep bluring the lines between fantasy value and real world value....big difference. When you say "what happens when he goes against an elite corner? Oh that's right, he probably won't" you only reinforce what i'm saying. Due to his situation, Welker is a STUD. He doesn't have to go against the top corner, and that's to his advantage. " Where was Welker's stud production last year?" answer= somewhere above Moss'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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