Teacon Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 (edited) Experience: 12 years Dynasty exp.: 2 yrs. League: 12 team performance Roster: 23 total....4 qbs; 7 rbs; 8 wrs; 2 k; 2 Defs Drafts: 2 separate....1 rookie draft for college players drafted to the league, 1 vet draft for players already in the league. Lineups: 1 qb, 7 rb/wr combo; 1 k, 1 Def League synopsis: Good league,competitive. Experienced owners know how to draft and balance their rosters. Obviously a very deep league and talent is spread out well. We do have special rules regarding keepers, we have to keep a certain amount of young player (4 yrs. experience or less). League site: Visit My WebsiteI'm BungHolio[/b] My roster: QBs: Brady, Campbell, A.Smith, Carr...........RBs: LT, J.Jones, R.Brown, D.Wright, Pittman, Shipp, Kolby Smith............WRs: Avant, Bowe, Burleson, M.Clayton, G.Jennings, S.Smith (Car), H.Ward..............K's and D's not relevant. Problem: Ronnie Brown gets hurt and I dont have depth at RB (neither does anyone else, really). With Brady and LT and the depth I have at WR, I feel I can win the league (currently 6-2). I'm trying to trade Brown (started last week after injury, at the time ranked the 2nd best back in our scoring system..tds + yds) for a decent warm body. I offered trades out to teams w/poor records. I got a poor response. In every offer I made I felt I was helping the other owner upgrade their rbs by getting Brown. The possible exception was with the Westbrook offer and thats why I included a draft pick. QUESTION....Was I asking too much? Trading in dynasty is new to me, but as a FF vet I think I have a good idea of what I was offering. I didn't offer trades that I thought would be initially taken, but tried to get in the ballpark of "fair". Each scenario below was with different owners. Trade offer #1: Asked one owner for Westbrook in return for R.Brown plus a draft pick (unspecified). No response. Trade offer #2: R.Brown for Benson + WR ( I hate Benson, btw) Initial request was for Welker but I didn't think it would be accepted. Got a response but no counter offer. Trade offer #3: Brown for L.White straight up. Told jokingly (much truth told in "jokes") "What are you, raping me?" some trade talk that amounted to nothing. Trade offer #4: Brown for J.Lewis and Muhammed (I think J. Lewis is useless AND he was hurt at the time). Owner counter with adding in G.Jennings from my side. That offer is on the table and I can accept it anytime. I didn't think any of these offers were out of bounds, though maybe favored me a little. Isn't that where negotiations start? Edited October 30, 2007 by Teacon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 problem is, you are not giving them anything to use here and now, and who knows how brown will recover.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xMRogers Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Personally, I would look at the Brown for Westy trade as "unfair" even if Brown didn't get hurt. The bigger problem is as described. The other three are viable (I'd have jumped at the last one myself without any pushback and unless I desperately needed Benson this year, the 2nd as well), but in a Dynasty, the problem is that what's fair for the next 4 years may not be fair in any way this year and the guy who's window for winning is this year may have a problem. In saying that, other than maybe needing to sweeten the Westbrook one more IMO none of these are ridiculously unfair in the scheme of dynasty leagues. (and yes, you have to make an assumption on Brown's ability to come back - no diff than making an assumption on draft picks and the value of them) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacon Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 problem is, you are not giving them anything to use here and now, and who knows how brown will recover.... Only one offer went out to an owner that "could" make the playoffs....his division is weak and he at 3-4 he was only out first place by two games(last week). Now he is 3-5 and out of the division lead by 3 games. I almost didn't offer him because of that but did because I thought he was a weak team and losing last week help confirm that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacon Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 (and yes, you have to make an assumption on Brown's ability to come back Rogers, I have an ACL replacement myself done in '93 and I've kept up w/the medical advancements since then. What I have is antiquated compared to what they are doing now. He'll come back and do well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 if i am the other owner... talk to me about how brown might perform when he comes back in a depleated offense..vs healthy player doing well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacon Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 (I'd have jumped at the last one myself without any pushback and unless I desperately needed Benson this year, the 2nd as well), I didn't think the Welker inclusion was bad either, especially since Benson is so bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacon Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 if i am the other owner... talk to me about how brown might perform when he comes back in a depleated offense..vs healthy player doing well. 0-7...'Phins.....and what was he doing this year already? Prior to this weekend he was the #2 scorer and if not for the injury in the 3rd quarter, 6 more pts in our scoring system puts him #1 virtually half way through the season. I'd say that is a pretty good risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Another thing that scares me about Brown is what Miami will do with that 1st or 2nd overall pick. Will they be concerned enough about it for them to take a RB and how long will it be before Brown is ready to even see the field again? You make the assumption that he will be back next season. That may well be, but how many weeks into the season will that be & how long will it take for him to get back in game shape & regain his confidence in his own ability? Don't get me wrong Brown would be great to have on a team that is looking to rebuild, but the owner that's picking him up is also looking at a lot of risk to go along with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacon Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 Another thing that scares me about Brown is what Miami will do with that 1st or 2nd overall pick. Will they be concerned enough about it for them to take a RB and how long will it be before Brown is ready to even see the field again? You make the assumption that he will be back next season. That may well be, but how many weeks into the season will that be & how long will it take for him to get back in game shape & regain his confidence in his own ability? Don't get me wrong Brown would be great to have on a team that is looking to rebuild, but the owner that's picking him up is also looking at a lot of risk to go along with it. Its all a crapshoot RC...Heall, YOU"VE been around long enough, you were already in the Huddle when I got here, what, in the 90s? You know that. I think Cameron was developing an offense around Brown and with the offers I made, I think most owners would have jumped at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 you are overvaluing damaged goods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacon Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 you are overvaluing damaged goods I won't lie, thats my only concern. I just don't think so. Ligament replacement has come a long way. I can't name all the names off the top of my head, but in the last 7 years, guys have been coming back from ligament replacement better than ever. As I said earlier, I HAVE one myself, ACL replacement on the left knee......COACHING JV football of all things, showing the qb how to run the option..........all I did was plant and cut ...I cried....literally.....ok, not for LONG....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I won't lie, thats my only concern. I just don't think so. Ligament replacement has come a long way. I can't name all the names off the top of my head, but in the last 7 years, guys have been coming back from ligament replacement better than ever. As I said earlier, I HAVE one myself, ACL replacement on the left knee......COACHING JV football of all things, showing the qb how to run the option..........all I did was plant and cut ...I cried....literally.....ok, not for LONG....... i understand... had my left acl replaced around the same time as you (one of my injuries was while coaching lacrosse). i also have brown in one of my dynasties. if on the receiving end, i just see the risk/reward being to high for those offers..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Keeper is not a dynasty league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacon Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 i understand... had my left acl replaced around the same time as you (one of my injuries was while coaching lacrosse). i also have brown in one of my dynasties. if on the receiving end, i just see the risk/reward being to high for those offers..... did you cry????? LOL.....ok, anyone who has experienced THAT pain won't find it THAT funny........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacon Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 Keeper is not a dynasty league yes, I know, that was actually part of my question as I have played in keeper leagues but could only keep players up to 3 years. Thats why this was originally a philosophical post....trying to sort through the differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 did you cry????? LOL.....ok, anyone who has experienced THAT pain won't find it THAT funny........... decided to get surgery after 3rd injury.... i knew the moment it popped it was severe.... that thought alone almost made me cry.... poopy poopster poop poop poop hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 if those teams were out of it, the trades seemed very fair - except for maybe Westy... but really... how long can he play like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacon Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 if those teams were out of it, the trades seemed very fair - except for maybe Westy... but really... how long can he play like that Thanks Duch, that what I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicster Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 My 15 year old brother-in-law is going through his second surgically repaired ACL in as many years from High School football. He actually made it back in time to pitch for Varsity last season and made 2nd team all district, 4 months removed from ACL reconstruction. The advancements have come along way, but if a back (or any player for that matter) gets a microfracture... they are almost certainly done. I had my microfracture in April of this year and still the knee is swollen and I can't run yet. Hell I can barely walk much as it is. Anyway, just thought that I would throw that out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 (edited) Its all a crapshoot RC...Heall, YOU"VE been around long enough, you were already in the Huddle when I got here, what, in the 90s? You know that. I think Cameron was developing an offense around Brown and with the offers I made, I think most owners would have jumped at it. As long as you think that way you are going to have problems in a dynasty league. Yes, individual players are a crapshoot. But a dynasty league is all about taking calculated risks. If you can minimize your risk you have a better chance at building a viable team that can sustain long term success and the one thing that will turn owners off the quickest is a serious long term injury that has some risk of the player never returning. In a keeper league it is much easier to recover from...but in a dynasty a decision like that can have implications that affect you for years to come....especially with a position as important as RB. Edited October 31, 2007 by rajncajn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacon Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 As long as you think that way you are going to have problems in a dynasty league. Yes, individual players are a crapshoot. But a dynasty league is all about taking calculated risks. If you can minimize your risk you have a better chance at building a viable team that can sustain long term success and the one thing that will turn owners off the quickest is a serious long term injury that has some risk of the player never returning. In a keeper league it is much easier to recover from...but in a dynasty a decision like that can have implications that affect you for years to come....especially with a position as important as RB. I have consider not trading him and riding it out....are you suggesting I go that route? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I have consider not trading him and riding it out....are you suggesting I go that route? If you can't get what you consider fair value for him then you have no other choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 If other owners are not giving you what you think is fair value for him, you may want to consider that you could pick some guys who are currently injured and/or have been underperforming at bargain prices. See what SJax, MHarrison, JWalker, McNabb, etc. will cost you ... it may ding you a bit this year, but, once they return, could put you in tall cotton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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