Head to Head vs. Total Points

[Bronco Billy]

There is no question that total points measure the true value of the team better.

 

Why would you make this claim? I can give you at least one definitive scenario where it would be unequivicably untrue.

[Double Agent]

Why would you make this claim? I can give you at least one definitive scenario where it would be unequivicably untrue.

 

Alright...elaborate.

[Bronco Billy]

Alright...elaborate.

 

An owner with an otherwise average team has players who go off for hugh weeks 2 to 3 weeks during the season - D Brees/E Graham/K Curtis/L Evans type players. They have built a very inconsistent team that would perform poorly in H2H competition but do well in total points because of the strength of a limited number of weeks.

 

I feel that a very strong argument can be made that even though that would be an average overall team as evaluated by talent & player impact in comparison within each position that it very well could finish highly in total points standings.

[Bronco Billy]

That said, I also feel that H2H is just more fun - there's a more competitive nature in direct competition with an opponent (or two in DH leagues) each week. It mimics the actual product in the NFL more closely. The NFL doesn't give the Lombardi trophy to the team that scores the most points throughout a season - it awards the trophy by seeding teams in a playoff based upon the results of a H2H competition each week and then having them play in a one-loss-&-out format tournament at the end of the season.

[Fantasy Jesus]

We do a little of both in one of my leagues.

 

12 teams - 3 divsions of 4 teams each.

 

Each division winner earns a playoff spot. The remaining 3 playoff team are decided by total points scored regardless of record

[keggerz]

Total points is easliy skewed by blowing up one week or another.

 

HTH has a luck factor.

 

If you really want to rank the teams based on who has the best team, the only way to do it is to use all play record.

 

But seriously.....why would that be fun?

+1

 

To me the real challenge of fantasy football is to come up with a scoring system that allows something I do as an owner to reduce the scoring capability of my opponent.

A Sandbox IDP league i was in back in 2000 or 2001(maybe 02) used to have such a thing...

The way it worked was like this:

 

IDP starters were 2/2/2 with 1 FLEX(i am 99.9999% sure that is what it was)

The way it worked was if you started 3 DL you would reduce your opponents RB points by a factor(cant remember what it was)

but you would also increase their WR points by the same factor

If you started 3 DBs you would decrease your opponents WR points by a factor and increase their RB points by the same factor.

If you started 3LBs you didnt change their RB or WR points...

 

the thought process was that if it were an NFL game more DL would hinder a RBs production but at the sake of your coverage on WRs

and vice versa

 

it was interesting and I dont know if they still do that or not but again it was pretty cool

I mean if you were playing a team that was starting say Westbrook & Barber at RB but Devery Henderson, Joe Horn and Galloway at WR you would probably want to play 3 DL and if you were playing a team with Kolby Smith & K Faulk at RB but had Moss, Housh and Galloway at WR you would really want to start an extra DB....of course unless you have stud LBs that you feel would make up any difference....it really was an interesting twist

[theeohiostate]

Still haven't heard anyone's thoughts on using the MFL power rankings. Really, what could be more fair then that, you'd be assured the best 6 teams make the playoffs, correct?

[Grits and Shins]

An owner with an otherwise average team has players who go off for hugh weeks 2 to 3 weeks during the season - D Brees/E Graham/K Curtis/L Evans type players. They have built a very inconsistent team that would perform poorly in H2H competition but do well in total points because of the strength of a limited number of weeks.

 

I feel that a very strong argument can be made that even though that would be an average overall team as evaluated by talent & player impact in comparison within each position that it very well could finish highly in total points standings.

 

In my local H2H league we have one team that likely will not make the playoffs with his H2H record of 4-6. However, if it were a total points league he would be 6th seed because week 2 his entire team went off including Carson Palmer with 6 TDs and Chad Johnson with 11 receptions for 209 yards and 2 TDs. His score that week was 191.54 which was 35.28 points more than the next closest team and 64.84 over the average that week. He has 4 weeks with less than 100 points (one of them less than 90) and when he breaks 100 it is just generally just barely.

 

Another team is currently 7-3 and falling off the pace quickly due to injuries ... there is a good chance he might not make the playoffs. However, were we a total points league he'd be sitting at the 5 seed. His team had 2 outstanding weeks scoring 213.66 in week 3 and 165.56 in week 6. Three out of the last 4 weeks he has failed to break 100, once even failing to break 90.

 

Both of these teams would be making the playoffs in a total points league because of 1 or 2 weeks in which their teams went off. That is luck folks.

[xtra]

That said, I also feel that H2H is just more fun - there's a more competitive nature in direct competition with an opponent (or two in DH leagues) each week. It mimics the actual product in the NFL more closely. The NFL doesn't give the Lombardi trophy to the team that scores the most points throughout a season - it awards the trophy by seeding teams in a playoff based upon the results of a H2H competition each week and then having them play in a one-loss-&-out format tournament at the end of the season.

+1 I love to compete each week ,even if Im out and just trying to be the spoiler.

[Grits and Shins]

Still haven't heard anyone's thoughts on using the MFL power rankings. Really, what could be more fair then that, you'd be assured the best 6 teams make the playoffs, correct?

 

The problem with MFL power rankings is you are rewarded for bench points. Why should teams get an advantage if they have a strong bench?

[Bronco Billy]

BTW - for the record, I do support and enjoy the leagues the most that award playoff spots based both upon H2H record and by total points. There is no question that the counter argument to H2H that a team can be very good and be unfortunate enough to catch other teams on their best weeks, thus missing the playoffs despite having a strong team is valid.

[Sturphy]

IDP starters were 2/2/2 with 1 FLEX(i am 99.9999% sure that is what it was)

The way it worked was if you started 3 DL you would reduce your opponents RB points by a factor(cant remember what it was)

but you would also increase their WR points by the same factor

If you started 3 DBs you would decrease your opponents WR points by a factor and increase their RB points by the same factor.

If you started 3LBs you didnt change their RB or WR points...

Wow. I'd love to try that out.

[keggerz]

Wow. I'd love to try that out.

i did some google searches and found this:

 

One of the last years my league did Sandbox football (before they started charging for usage during peak hours), we had an interesting wrinkle on IDP strategy, which they called Defensive Flex Stategy. Since there were three starters, if you decided to start two defensive linemen, your opponent would lose 10% of his points from running backs. Starting three defensive lineman caused an either 15% or 20% subtraction. I think defensive backs took away from WR points. It worked much better in theory than in actuality because I don't think most leagues want to mess with fractional points (I know I didn't), but it is something to consider.

 

It jogged my memory enough to remember that the factor was indeed 10%

 

10% off the position you were trying to lessen(RB if you play an extra DL, or WR is you play an extra DB)

+10% to the position that you left out on the island of sorts(if you played the extra DL then WRs get 10%, play an extra DB the RBs got 10%)

 

it really is interesting and would really add some strategy but I dont know if there are any providers out there that can accommodate such a scoring system

 

I will send MFL support a quick note and see what they say....if they cant maybe I can talk them into beta testing something next yr

[Double Agent]

BTW - for the record, I do support and enjoy the leagues the most that award playoff spots based both upon H2H record and by total points. There is no question that the counter argument to H2H that a team can be very good and be unfortunate enough to catch other teams on their best weeks, thus missing the playoffs despite having a strong team is valid.

 

How exactly could you do this? I like that aspect too...just not sure how to do it.

[keggerz]

The problem with MFL power rankings is you are rewarded for bench points. Why should teams get an advantage if they have a strong bench?

I rank #1 in Power Rank in the following 2 leagues but dont have much in bench points

http://football17.myfantasyleague.com/2007...39576&O=101

http://football5.myfantasyleague.com/2007/...24625&O=101

 

Top team has most points by about 60 points over me(2nd) and less bench points(120ish)

http://football28.myfantasyleague.com/2007...39735&O=101

 

This league I am #3 in PR but have the most points by about 60 but about 250 less bench points

http://football27.myfantasyleague.com/2007...49486&O=101

 

i am not sure how much bench points count...but i would like to know how they come up with the ranking

[theeohiostate]

The problem with MFL power rankings is you are rewarded for bench points. Why should teams get an advantage if they have a strong bench?

 

 

 

Okay, thanks.

 

Didn't know the factored in the equation, although they are noted in the chart.

 

That isn't good.

[Bronco Billy]

How exactly could you do this? I like that aspect too...just not sure how to do it.

 

It's been mentioned by others here. Play a H2H schedule but track total points also. Use points scored as a tie-breaker and allow one or two playoff seeds to total points scored once the top seeds have been awarded by record. That gives you total points making an impact while still maintaining a league as a predominantly H2H league.

[theeohiostate]

I rank #1 in Power Rank in the following 2 leagues but dont have much in bench points

http://football17.myfantasyleague.com/2007...39576&O=101

http://football5.myfantasyleague.com/2007/...24625&O=101

 

Top team has most points by about 60 points over me(2nd) and less bench points(120ish)

http://football28.myfantasyleague.com/2007...39735&O=101

 

This league I am #3 in PR but have the most points by about 60 but about 250 less bench points

http://football27.myfantasyleague.com/2007...49486&O=101

 

i am not sure how much bench points count...but i would like to know how they come up with the ranking

 

 

Good research Keg, I'm posting this question on the MFL support forum now to seek an answer to their formula. I think the power rankings do an excellent job at marking the best teams.

 

 

Waiting for an answer here http://sidelineleagues.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20572

Edited November 13, 2007 by theeohiostate

[keggerz]

Good research Keg, I'm posting this question on the MFL support forum now to seek an answer to their formula. I think the power rankings do an excellent job at marking the best teams.

Waiting for an answer here http://sidelineleagues.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20572

i sent support an email asking about the scoring system i described earlier too

[Caveman_Nick]

The problem with MFL power rankings is you are rewarded for bench points. Why should teams get an advantage if they have a strong bench?

 

I can only image that it has to do with your ability to deal with bye weeks and your ability to deal with injury.

[Grits and Shins]

I rank #1 in Power Rank in the following 2 leagues but dont have much in bench points

http://football17.myfantasyleague.com/2007...39576&O=101

http://football5.myfantasyleague.com/2007/...24625&O=101

 

Top team has most points by about 60 points over me(2nd) and less bench points(120ish)

http://football28.myfantasyleague.com/2007...39735&O=101

 

This league I am #3 in PR but have the most points by about 60 but about 250 less bench points

http://football27.myfantasyleague.com/2007...49486&O=101

 

i am not sure how much bench points count...but i would like to know how they come up with the ranking

 

• Power Rank - A formula designed to give an alternate view of the 'best' franchise in the league. This number is arrived at like this:

 

points_per_week_per_starter = A

points_per_week_per_nonstarter = B

all_play_wins_per_week = C

actual_wins = D

division_wins = E

 

Power Rank = A+B+C+D+E

[keggerz]

Good research Keg, I'm posting this question on the MFL support forum now to seek an answer to their formula. I think the power rankings do an excellent job at marking the best teams.

Waiting for an answer here http://sidelineleagues.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20572

i think that they also factor in the record and strength of your opponents but i could be wrong

[theeohiostate]

MFL POWER RANKINGS FORMULA

 

 

This report (sorted by the power rank) contains the following information for each franchise:• PF - Points For, total points scored year-to-date. • PP - Potential Points, total points a franchise could have scored if it had started a perfect lineup each week. • Eff - Efficiency rating, or PF divided by PP, expressed as a percentage. • Bench Points - Total points scored by all bench players. • Max PF - Maximum points scored in one week. • Min PF - Minimum points scored in one week. • Coulda Won - For each week of the season, compare your "potential points" versus your opponents actual points - you will get one in this column for each game that you could have won a by starting a better lineup. In other words, if you had started your best lineup each week, this is the number of extra wins you could have received throughout the season. • Woulda Lost - For each week of the season, compare your actual points versus your opponents "potential points" - you will get one in this column for each game that you would have lost if your opponent had started a better lineup. In other words, if your opponent had started his best lineup each week, this is the number of extra losses you would have received throughout the season. • All-play Record - The number of wins, losses, and ties the franchise would have if it played all teams each week of the season. • Power Rank - A formula designed to give an alternate view of the 'best' franchise in the league.  This number is arrived at like this: points_per_week_per_starter = Apoints_per_week_per_nonstarter = Ball_play_wins_per_week = Cactual_wins = Ddivision_wins = EPower Rank = A+B+C+D+E

 

 

So it appears, then bench points are being used as 1/5 the total to formulate your power rankings..........bizzare ! !

[keggerz]

MFL POWER RANKINGS FORMULA

 

 

This report (sorted by the power rank) contains the following information for each franchise:• PF - Points For, total points scored year-to-date. • PP - Potential Points, total points a franchise could have scored if it had started a perfect lineup each week. • Eff - Efficiency rating, or PF divided by PP, expressed as a percentage. • Bench Points - Total points scored by all bench players. • Max PF - Maximum points scored in one week. • Min PF - Minimum points scored in one week. • Coulda Won - For each week of the season, compare your "potential points" versus your opponents actual points - you will get one in this column for each game that you could have won a by starting a better lineup. In other words, if you had started your best lineup each week, this is the number of extra wins you could have received throughout the season. • Woulda Lost - For each week of the season, compare your actual points versus your opponents "potential points" - you will get one in this column for each game that you would have lost if your opponent had started a better lineup. In other words, if your opponent had started his best lineup each week, this is the number of extra losses you would have received throughout the season. • All-play Record - The number of wins, losses, and ties the franchise would have if it played all teams each week of the season. • Power Rank - A formula designed to give an alternate view of the 'best' franchise in the league.  This number is arrived at like this: points_per_week_per_starter = Apoints_per_week_per_nonstarter = Ball_play_wins_per_week = Cactual_wins = Ddivision_wins = EPower Rank = A+B+C+D+E

 

 

So it appears, then bench points are being used as 1/5 the total to formulate your power rankings..........bizzare ! !

and blitz beat you to it

[twiley]

I pay out the same amount for total points and regular season winner. The Superbowl champ gets an additional $50 on top of what the others get., mainly due to a the luck factor in H2H.