Michigan Week

[theeohiostate]

Unless Les Miles is your replacement.

 

 

Les would get owned like Carr, so either is fine to me.

 

I don't see either as a top 20 coach at this point

[sacosud]

Here's an interesting Big 10er's perspective of the Ohio State vs. Michigan rivalry. Maybe Brian can tell us if this is true or just BS.

 

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Didn't watch the program, but I suspect the documentary didn't tell you what most amateur big ten historians all ready know.

 

In the 1950s and 1960s Ohio State and Michigan were not the big two. The big ten was much more evenly balanced and in Michigan, Saban's old school, Michigan State was the dominant power in the state and in the big ten winning two national titles--look it up. Minnesota was also a power as well.

 

Michigan was a former power pretty much left for dead, but their old AD Don Canham deserves a lot of credit for reviving the OSU-UM rivalry. The Big House generally was only 2/3 full even for the big rivalry game during the 1960s.

 

Woody and Bo were good friends who hated the idea of other big ten teams winning and they actually worked as hard tearing down other programs as they did building their own. They worked to get Michigan State on probation--the most severe second to SMU--in the 1970s. That was their number one goal.

 

Canham and Bo also worked to lower admission standards for football players. UM was pretty much the Northwestern of the big ten during the 1950s and 1960s, but Canham had the vision of marketing fb to the big time. Give them credit for that. Bo was a good coach, but his bowl record and his lack of national titles compared to Biggie Munn and Duffy Daugherty speaks for itself.

 

Bo and Woody were also the masters of negative recruiting. They could also coach and recruit well, but they invented modern negative recruiting and actively worked the media--that's another reason wny Bo is overrated. Woody was cast as this military historian on the side and Bo was this feisty regular guy who "loved" his kids.

[sacosud]

First the game was a throwback game and I loved every second of it.

 

OSU game plan imo was to throw the football to open up Wells, but the weather looked to be a problem for both teams.

 

OSU defense dominated this game up front and Tress went to the power game more due to weather and field position.

 

OSU took Hart out of the game and made them 1 option team and say what you want, but Manningham had at least 4 drops I counted and Arrington had at least 2 or 3, thats 7 drops and at least 50% was on 3rd down. Manningham is a good receiver and has produced the whole season. Michigan catches those drops and we are looking at a different game.

 

Gholston is a beast and just unreal for his size. I love how they started dropping him into coverage and he ended up on Arrington as Washington (corner) blitzed. I have never been a big fan of Henne's, but today he earned a few points with me. Henne looked uncomfortable or in pain the whole game and he could have just sat out after going to the locker room, but he did'nt and he ran into the huddle and wanted back out there.

 

OSU could have put another td up late, but Tress being Tress decided to just take the knee.

 

Great job by OSU line and I'm happy for another 12 months. OSU losing 2 seniors and of course there could be a couple guys leave early, however OSU should be pretty stocked next year and the "08" class is maybe the best we have had in years. I'm loving the direction we are going.

 

ROSE BOWL....I can't wait!!!!! The problem is it's such a long time too wait.

Edited November 18, 2007 by sacosud

[Rockerbraves]

You better hope that some team saves your buckeyes from having to miss another Rose Bowl.

[Puddy]

 

 

I think Lloyd Carr was great for the university. However, he got outcoached today as usual against the Vest. It was obvious that Henne didn't have it early in the game. He brings Mallet in for one series. I understand trying to let your seniors play out the last game but he made a HUGH mistake letting Henne come back in the game.

[Chavez]

GOB1, is that response due more to Rocker's facts being wrong, or because he left some other (more pertinent) facts out? For instance, what was Bo's record vs. OSU, and/or what lasting legendary things did he do that make him so loved by the UM fans? Inquiring minds (i.e. those not born and bred in the Big10) want to know.....

Michigan was down and being owned by OSU on a yearly basis. He brought the Wolverines back to national prominence and probably more importantly stuck it to Woody Hayes on a fairly regular basis.

 

He's a giant at UM, and rightly so. At a school where Fielding Yost and Fritz Crisler crushed all in their path, his name is the one that screams "Michigan football!"

 

But I agree when you step back and look at it without bias, he is a bit overrated as far as on-field results go. Then again, we all know that college football has more important things than on-field results.

[sacosud]

You better hope that some team saves your buckeyes from having to miss another Rose Bowl.

Well, I'll be giddy for a couple days about the win yesterday and really it's a good feeling knowing at least the Rose Bowl is a lock and anything after that which would be a Sugar Bowl will be a added bonus.

 

Who knows Oregon and OU goes down this week.. I think WVU win last night ended OSU chance at the Sugar, but what do I know especially this season.

 

ASU,Oregon, or USC in that order...I think???? Can someone update Pac 10 order as of today's date.

 

Who most likely going to the Rose Bowl from the Pac 10??

[Chavez]

Pacific 10
Team	Conf. W-L	Overall W-L
Arizona St.	6-1	9-1
Oregon	5-2	8-2
Southern Cal.	5-2	8-2
Oregon St.	5-3	7-4

ASU looks to be in the driver's seat.

[SLAYER]

Well, I'll be giddy for a couple days about the win yesterday and really it's a good feeling knowing at least the Rose Bowl is a lock and anything after that which would be a Sugar Bowl will be a added bonus.

 

Sugar Bowl and NC Game are two different beast. Don't think you will be in the Sugar, NC maybe outside chance.

[theeohiostate]

Pacific 10Team	Conf. W-L	Overall W-LArizona St.	6-1	9-1Oregon	5-2	8-2Southern Cal.	5-2	8-2Oregon St.	5-3	7-4

 

ASU looks to be in the driver's seat.

 

 

ASU takes on USC next week, if USC were to win then they'd have a 3-way tie - USC -Oregon - ASU , who holds the tie-breaker ?

 

USC hasn't beaten a single team this season in the current top 30 rankings and it's most notable wins were over the likes of a 5 loss Cal team and Notre Dame , so I'd hate to see them go over a more proven Oregon or ASU team

 

 

.............and how bad is the Pac 10 this season, when a team like Arizona who couldn't hang with BYU or New Mexico out of confernce is at .500 in conference play

Edited November 18, 2007 by theeohiostate

[sacosud]

Sugar Bowl and NC Game are two different beast. Don't think you will be in the Sugar, NC maybe outside chance.

Yes, your correct the BCS Bowl.

 

I guess, I'm still calling the location by the Bowl that is played in the same location as the Sugar.

 

The BCS National Championship Game is what I mean and stand corrected.

 

Thanks Slayer.

Edited November 18, 2007 by sacosud

[Rockerbraves]

Trying to prove a point against all amateur Big Ten historians, and Rocker, with mere facts is pointless.

More perspective from the Big 10 amateur historian.

 

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Another thing is that programs like Minnesota and Michigan State sort of went into funks beginning in the late 60s. They had administrations who wanted to sort of downplay football or remained stuck in the 1960s. Additionally integrated SEC and ACC football meant that Minnesota and Michigan State--schools who were the pioneers of northern schools recruiting down south had to work harder for recruits, but didn't get the budgets from administrators.

 

Interesting fact is that Barry Switzer interviewed for the Michigan State job in the early 1970s and was turned down because he wanted more money for recruiting such as a jet and so on. Read his book and he'll talk about it. Can imagine if Switzer ended up at MSU. That documentary on HBO might not have ever been made if Switzer equalled his success at MSU that he had at OU. Michigan and Ohio State wouldn't have mattered.

 

Ohio State and especially Michigan in the 1970s invented the modern marketing of college athletics and hyping the game was part of it. In the 1950s and 1960s that game was the equivalent of Purdue-Indiana or Iowa-Minnesota now. A rivalry but not nearly what it is now.

 

Minnesota if they ever got their act together could be a power again and so could Michigan State. Iowa and Wisconsin are good programs, but it's harder for them to keep it going. Look at Iowa the last few years. Wisconsin is only a resurgent Minnesota and Illinois away from being bad like they were for about 60 years until Alvarez showed up.

[GWPFFL BrianW]

Minnesota hasn't won a title SINCE the 60's. There biggest problem soon to be fixed when they finally get an on-campus stadium. Pretty hard to tell a kid "hey come play in the big inflatable toilet for 4 years." There other problem is they are in a pro sports town, which no one cares anything about gopher football. They don't have the alumni support like the Iowa's and Purdue's of the world. As for the analogy of Iowa, they were in a new years day bowl game 2 years ago. I hardly think this is time for Iowa to panic. Particularly since they've been competing in the top half of the conference since the early 80's. They will never be Michigan, Ohio State, or Penn State, but they certainly are not gonna go anywhere. This certainly isn't the first time Illinois has been at or near the top either. Iowa didn't have any problems then and they won't now. As I told you before, guys like Chad Greenway, and Bob Sanders went to Iowa because no one else wanted them. I guarantee, every single team in the Big Ten, and probably the country wouldn't have minded having those guys on their team. But then again, would they have been the same players? Who knows, in college a lot of it has to do with developing talent. Look at Notre Dame and Charlie Weis. He comes from the NFL, where he gets to work with basically a finished product. He doesn't know the first thing about teaching these kids how to tackle, and block, and do basic things, and look at the results. As far as Michigan State, you're forgetting the fact that the Big 8 was not near as deep as the Big Ten. You talk about the Big Ten's depth in the 70's. The Big 8 was Oklahoma and Nebraska and that's it. Not only that but as good as a program MSU was, they were never on the same level as Michigan and Ohio State. Michigan's the all time winningest team in the NCAA, so they've always been good. Oklahoma was pretty much always dominant. And when Switzer took over, they were coming off very good seasons, one of which they were a clear cut 2nd best team in the country. Compare that to Michigan State, he would have taken over a far worse situation. Barry Switzer was very successful, but lets face it, he took over a highly successful program that was already established, and coming off national championship caliber seasons. Michigan State had 1 winning season after their great 66' team. I mean what would you do if you were Barry? First off, compete with 2 super power teams, plus the occasional Purdue or whoever, that might be a tough out for a particular year, or go take over for teams that have been going 11-1, and among some of the greatest teams ever? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

Edited November 19, 2007 by GWPFFL BrianW

[Rockerbraves]

Any talk up there about your coach being considered for the Michigan job? I've heard his name come up a few times around here when people speculate about Carr not being a Les Miles fan.

[GWPFFL BrianW]

I'd be shocked. Michigan likes to go with their own, if you know what I mean.

[Rockerbraves]

Since Bo haven't they always hired within. Find it strange that Michigan would make an announcement this early about Carr if they were planning on holding out for Miles. That forces Miles hand abit, don't you think? What I read into that is that Michigan is not 100% sold on Miles and plans to explore other potential candidates. Personally I think Miles will go if offered, but not sure they will wait till after the BCS NC should the Tigers make it there.

[budlitebrad]

I gotta think Miles would want that job after both playing and asst. coaching for Bo.

Edited November 19, 2007 by budlitebrad

[GWPFFL BrianW]

Whether it's an assistant, or whoever, it will be a Michigan man. Miles fits that criteria. I welcome that, because I think he's gonna do a lot of damage to that program.

[chiefjay]

Yes Michigan has lately went for "Michigan" Men, Bo then Moeller and then Carr but both of those guys were ready to be Head Coaches.

 

Bo wasn't a Michigan man and a few before him weren't Michigan men.

 

Yes Miles is near the top of the list but I don't believe he's near a lock.

 

Ferentz? Yeah, I don't know about him.

 

I suspect a few candidates to arise that no one suspects. Maybe a Steve Spurrier type of coach but I think he's a long shot.

 

No doubt it's the most important hire around these parts since Wayne Fontes was hired for the Lions job.

[Glabra]

Yes Michigan has lately went for "Michigan" Men, Bo then Moeller and then Carr but both of those guys were ready to be Head Coaches.

 

Bo wasn't a Michigan man and a few before him weren't Michigan men.

 

Yes Miles is near the top of the list but I don't believe he's near a lock.

 

Ferentz? Yeah, I don't know about him.

 

I suspect a few candidates to arise that no one suspects. Maybe a Steve Spurrier type of coach but I think he's a long shot.

 

No doubt it's the most important hire around these parts since Wayne Fontes was hired for the Lions job.

I hear Joe Pa's interested, cuz he doesn't want any more losses to Michigan.