reddog13 Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 The trade was the team in 10th place gave up Steven Jackson to their friend in 7th place who gave up Fred Taylor and Amani Toomer who they have only played each of them one week for the season. I am not claiming collusion but I just want some input on what others think about this? team A QB Joey Harrington WR Dennis Northcutt WR Bernard Berrian WR Muhsin Muhammad RB LaMont Jordan RB Julius Jones TE Greg Olsen K Jason Hanson DEF Washington Team B: QB Donovan McNabb WR Derrick Mason WR Torry Holt WR Isaac Bruce RB Maurice Jones-Drew RB --empty-- TE Dallas Clark K Mason Crosby DEF Indianapolis Keep In Mind the week before the same two traded for Bernard Barrian and Julius Jones for Torry Holt. Is this legit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scourge Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 veto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojanmojo Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 I don't think that's bad enough to veto. I don't think commisioners should be vetoing trades unless it's something like a kicker for LT. If bad trades were always vetoed then trades would not get done a ton of the time. Just my $.02. It's not like SJax has lit up the league this year. Sure, the guy getting SJax has the better part of it but I doubt the actual stats these 2 sides have put up are that far apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_bone65 Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Keeper, Dynasty or re-draft league? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorstCoachingEver Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 I don't think that's bad enough to veto. I don't think commisioners should be vetoing trades unless it's something like a kicker for LT. If bad trades were always vetoed then trades would not get done a ton of the time. Just my $.02. It's not like SJax has lit up the league this year. Sure, the guy getting SJax has the better part of it but I doubt the actual stats these 2 sides have put up are that far apart. So if LT got hurt and missed the same amount of games, a similar trade would be alright b/c the stats support it? You can't be trading Fred Freakin' Taylor and Amani Toomer for a RB that can put up 30pts game in fantasy playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojanmojo Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 So if LT got hurt and missed the same amount of games, a similar trade would be alright b/c the stats support it? You can't be trading Fred Freakin' Taylor and Amani Toomer for a RB that can put up 30pts game in fantasy playoffs. He's asking for opinions. I gave mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 So if LT got hurt and missed the same amount of games, a similar trade would be alright b/c the stats support it? You can't be trading Fred Freakin' Taylor and Amani Toomer for a RB that can put up 30pts game in fantasy playoffs. It's a pretty horrible trade, but maybe the SJax owner thinks Toomer is going to be valuable down the stretch with Burress unhealthy. Also, SJax is still an injury risk himself. But it looks sketchy. Real sketchy. Especially after the Berrian/J. Jones for Holt trade. I've had issues in leagues before where something similar happens where it is borderline collusion with no real proof of collusion. We have rules now that do not allow teams which are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs to trade players (not a dynasty or keeper league). It's worked out so far. it sucks that people will cheat to gain an edge, but such is life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorstCoachingEver Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 He's asking for opinions. I gave mine. I understand. I am with you in that most trades should not be touched as not all trades will appear evenly weighted. I just wanted to point out that you can't look at stat lines alone. You have to take into account the team with Sjax is in 10th place and is basically conducting a firesale in that it is basically getting a RB3 and WR3 for a RB1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog13 Posted November 15, 2007 Author Share Posted November 15, 2007 Keeper, Dynasty or re-draft league? Redraft legue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojanmojo Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 I understand. I am with you in that most trades should not be touched as not all trades will appear evenly weighted. I just wanted to point out that you can't look at stat lines alone. You have to take into account the team with Sjax is in 10th place and is basically conducting a firesale in that it is basically getting a RB3 and WR3 for a RB1. It's definitely a tough call. I'm sure all would feel better about it if the team in 10th place got a draft choice out of it or a younger player with some future upside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcmast Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Collusion. Had they made the trade before SJax cam back, then it could be legit, but since they are making this trade after he came back and had a good game, it is not legit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 (edited) How can you guys opine on this without knowing the league rules regarding a veto? Hey guys, I was driving 50 mph on this road. Was I speeding? You're almost never going to see any real evidence of collusion. Those rules are practically worthless. its a terrible trade, but whether you have an option to veto it is up to your rules. Edited November 15, 2007 by Furd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog13 Posted November 15, 2007 Author Share Posted November 15, 2007 How can you guys opine on this without knowing the league rules regarding a veto? Hey guys, I was driving 50 mph on this road. Was I speeding? You're almost never going to see any real evidence of collusion. Those rules are practically worthless. its a terrible trade, but whether you have an option to veto it is up to your rules. yes we have an option to veto this trade. Two of us did not it is up to Yahoo to let it go through or not. I just wanted to know if I was wrong for thinking collusion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystykoekaki Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 well I know why they are 10th and 7th place.....no wrs.....yuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 How would I know if the teams had a secret agreement; i.e. collusion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate lookin' at 40 Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 So, if I am reading this right, over the past two weeks the following trade(s) has taken place: Bernard Berrian, Julius Jones, Amani Toomer and Fred Taylor for Torry Holt and SJax As a commissioner of 2 leagues, I would have to step in and at least talk to these two and try to make a determination if this is collusion. Certainly looks fishy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeohiostate Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Sounds like someone's trying to help stack a team for a playoff run, maybe they've agreed to split the cash. I'd at least send out a feeler email to both owners, to see how they respond on how the trade benefits the 10th place team this late in the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 We have rules now that do not allow teams which are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs to trade players (not a dynasty or keeper league). this is a good rule, assuming that there is nothing left for the teams to play for. some leagues have a weekly high score, which i like, which at least gives teams some incentive to keep playing. if the 10th place team is mathematically eliminated and has absolutely nothing left to play for, then that team should not be striking deals. yes, you could say that they want to get out of the cellar or something like that, but clearly, sjax for toomer/taylor at this point in the season makes no sense. if i were commish in this case, i would call the 10th place team owner and ask him to explain his rationale for the deal. many times, they will just admit that they don't care too much about the deal, they were just doing it because the other owner was so adamant. this means they are not doing all they can to strike a deal that benefits both teams which does constitute a form of collusion. it may not be one team wanting to help the other as much as they really don't care so they just pull the deal. both are just as bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcmast Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 How can you guys opine on this without knowing the league rules regarding a veto? Hey guys, I was driving 50 mph on this road. Was I speeding? You're almost never going to see any real evidence of collusion. Those rules are practically worthless. its a terrible trade, but whether you have an option to veto it is up to your rules. I didn't say anything about a veto; just giving my opinion on the trade looking like collusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
policyvote Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 LOL @ the 10th place team having a "fire sale" so the 7th place team can "stock up" for a "playoff run" with St. Louis Rams players. All in a redraft league, no less. Peace policy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog13 Posted November 16, 2007 Author Share Posted November 16, 2007 The trade was vetoed. Now the team in 10th has offered the team in 8th Fred Taylor and L. Coles for Stephen Jax. Do you think this is legit or now I really have a case for somehting fishy. It is the same teams involved in the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 So if LT got hurt and missed the same amount of games, a similar trade would be alright b/c the stats support it? You can't be trading Fred Freakin' Taylor and Amani Toomer for a RB that can put up 30pts game in fantasy playoffs. Our FF league is based upon points awarded for stats accumulated by players. How does your league score? By height & weight of players? If you aren't going to use stats to compare trades, what exactly are you going to use? S Jackson - averaging 70 total ypg & has 2 TDs for the season F Taylor - averaging 60 total ypg and has 1 TD for the season A Toomer - averaging 44 total ypg and has 2 TDs for the season How can anyone justify a veto of this trade other than by using Steven Jackson's name and pre-season ADP as a sole excuse? That being the case, any veto is strictly BS and managing of an owner's team by other owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
familyguy Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 The trade was the team in 10th place gave up Steven Jackson to their friend in 7th place who gave up Fred Taylor and Amani Toomer who they have only played each of them one week for the season. I am not claiming collusion but I just want some input on what others think about this? team A QB Joey Harrington WR Dennis Northcutt WR Bernard Berrian WR Muhsin Muhammad RB LaMont Jordan RB Julius Jones TE Greg Olsen K Jason Hanson DEF Washington Team B: QB Donovan McNabb WR Derrick Mason WR Torry Holt WR Isaac Bruce RB Maurice Jones-Drew RB --empty-- TE Dallas Clark K Mason Crosby DEF Indianapolis Keep In Mind the week before the same two traded for Bernard Barrian and Julius Jones for Torry Holt. Is this legit? I think you need to let the trade go thru, depending on you league's veto policy. Steven Jackson could go down again if he's looked at wrong. He was a hot commodity pre-draft and that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xMRogers Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Completely agree with the above. first, stop calling out collusion on trades so much - collusion is "hey, if I win the league, I'll give you $300 if you trade me this player for your crap" - that doesn't happen much, and yet gets bandied about like it's common. 2nd - it's week 11 - SJax may blow up at some point...or he may continue to be just avg. If you can get two avg players that play for you for one avg player, it's an ok trade. THis concept that "you can't make that trade - it's sjax" is the same stupidity that says an "always start your studs" applies to the same list of players week 14 as it does week 1 - guess what, the stud list does change based on performance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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