keggerz Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 in my opinion..to be the best at anything...you must possess intelligence... so are you saying that Joey Chestnut or Kobayashi are intelligent because they can eat more hot dogs then anyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 in my opinion..to be the best at anything...you must possess intelligence... manny has great knowledge of the strikezone...he also sets up pitchers...he can also recognize spin and identify a pitch out of the hand of a pitcher id say that takes some kind of "intelligence"...would you disagree? i mean the brain is working there Mark Loretta is a graduate of Northwestern and isn't 1/10th the hitter that Manny is. Manny doesn't have the IQ to get into a junior college. Having excellent eyesight, quick reflexes, very strong wrists and forearms, and a ton of natural athletic ability doesn't equate to "intelligence." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 so are you saying that Joey Chestnut or Kobayashi are intelligent because they can eat more hot dogs then anyone else? i dunno about chestnut...he might just be a freak...but have you seen kobayashi lift weights and train in preparation for a contest? as far as i know he developed his own regiment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Mark Loretta is a graduate of Northwestern and isn't 1/10th the hitter that Manny is. Manny doesn't have the IQ to get into a junior college. Having excellent eyesight, quick reflexes, very strong wrists and forearms, and a ton of natural athletic ability doesn't equate to "intelligence." ok swerski...i see where you are going...and i understand but...manny watches alot of video of opposing pitchers....now tell me...if he is able to remember pitch type, sequence, and location of pitches...especially when entering certain counts against pitchers hes faced before...and is able to translate that into success...is that not a form of intelligence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtra Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Presented with the recurring "I play when I want to" critique, Randy Moss was able to defend himself: "The reason why I said it was, you have all your critics telling you how to play the position I've played my entire life...I run the deep patterns. I catch touchdowns down the sideline. I need to be fresh and ready to go for the 4th quarter. If critics don't understand that, well, they just don't understand." Football intelligence? Not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtra Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 ok swerski...i see where you are going...and i understand but...manny watches alot of video of opposing pitchers....now tell me...if he is able to remember pitch type, sequence, and location of pitches...especially when entering certain counts against pitchers hes faced before...and is able to translate that into success...is that not a form of intelligence? Memorization,not intelligence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 i still want to know how its intelligent to admit that you do an illegal drug when your work place(NFL) has a substance abuse policy for some reason huey doesnt want to answer this question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 You're confusing athletic skill with intelligence. Manny has an excellent knowledge of the strike zone, but that doesn't make him an "intelligent" person. You should read "How to think like Leonardo Da Vinci". It's an interesting take on intelligence and the different types of it. I'm not trying to wade into this argument, because like most of the arguments I see on here these days there is too much wetodddidness in it...but that particular book is an interesting discussion on how people try to characterize intelligence in the vein of Einstein, but how in reality that is a very narrow view of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtra Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 You should read "How to think like Leonardo Da Vinci". It's an interesting take on intelligence and the different types of it. I'm not trying to wade into this argument, because like most of the arguments I see on here these days there is too much wetodddidness in it...but that particular book is an interesting discussion on how people try to characterize intelligence in the vein of Einstein, but how in reality that is a very narrow view of things. Da Vinci was the original freak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I don't think Randy will be making the Mensa initiation this year, that's for certain. I believe he is a very smart man in terms of the game of football, in terms of how he controls his body (except when he is on front for Packer fans), and possibly in many regards to dealing with understanding how to read people's movements and get the better of them. Make no mistake, that is a type of intelligence.....but it's not the type that's going to get anyone a Harvard degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Matt Birk graduated from harvard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 oohhh right..because ones upbringing doesnt have any bearing on their ability to be articulate! that comment was directed at you anyway...it was just in general hey his comment counts!...for what? i dunno.....im just saying...this guy is being asked about his performance at an awards ceremony for college kick returning...and he could go out and bash his coach..his qb..and the lack of talent on the roster...but he didnt...hes not the brightest...but that doesnt mean he cant possess some level of intelligence take manny ramirez for example...he cant put two sentences together to save his life....but hes probably one of the most intelligent hitters of his generation..maybe the most intelligent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanCT Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 You guys are arguing book smart vs. street smart. I doubt you'll be seeing Randy on "Are you smarter than a 5th grader" anytime soon, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have an exceptional amount of football intelligence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtra Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 (edited) I don't think Randy will be making the Mensa initiation this year, that's for certain. I believe he is a very smart man in terms of the game of football, in terms of how he controls his body (except when he is on front for Packer fans), and possibly in many regards to dealing with understanding how to read people's movements and get the better of them. Make no mistake, that is a type of intelligence.....but it's not the type that's going to get anyone a Harvard degree. Isnt that physical skill? Pushing off and catching a jump ball would make any one who plays basketball intelligent wouldnt it? As far as football smarts,someone who thinks taking plays off doesnt have an effect on the outcome of the play and the football game isnt someone Id consider intelligent.Common sense would be a push for him. Edited November 20, 2007 by xtra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 (edited) Matt Birk graduated from harvard Jay Fielder and Jeff Kemp graduated from Darmouth Alex Smith got a 40 on his Wonderlic, while Marino got a 15. Rex Grossman got a 29, while Peyton got a 28. Eli got a 39, while Brady only scored a 33. Looks like natural physical ability, work ethic, and the ability to perform under pressure mean quite a bit in professional sports. Edited November 20, 2007 by Bill Swerski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Isnt that physical skill?Pushing off and catching a jump ball would make any one who plays basketball intelligent wouldnt it? As far as football smarts,someone who thinks taking plays off doesnt have an effect on the outcome of the play and the football game isnt someone Id consider intelligent.Common sense would be a push for him. Physical skill is part of these things, sure. Being in great shape, having physical advantages, that's all important. How you move in relation to the people around you, the choices you make on which direction to go, how well you time things, how accurately you figure out when to get to the same place as the ball, how you find the soft spots in an opposing defense, these are all forms of brain function. Being able to run faster than others and jump higher is also partly brain function. If you ever watched Larry Bird play basketball, you would know what I mean. He was a great athlete, but he couldn't run that fast, and he could barely jump over his own shoelace. Yet still he is regarded as one of the all time top basketball players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 (edited) Physical skill is part of these things, sure. Being in great shape, having physical advantages, that's all important. How you move in relation to the people around you, the choices you make on which direction to go, how well you time things, how accurately you figure out when to get to the same place as the ball, how you find the soft spots in an opposing defense, these are all forms of brain function. Being able to run faster than others and jump higher is also partly brain function. If you ever watched Larry Bird play basketball, you would know what I mean. He was a great athlete, but he couldn't run that fast, and he could barely jump over his own shoelace. Yet still he is regarded as one of the all time top basketball players. do you New Englanders know that there are people outside of "Bahston"....Manny as an example then Bird....sheesh Edited November 20, 2007 by keggerz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 do you New Englanders know that there are people outside of "Boston"....Manny as an example then Bird....sheesh Just before I hit the button I thought about talking similarly about Magic Johnson, who was also an amazing basketball player and who also always looked awkward. But....I didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtra Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 (edited) Physical skill is part of these things, sure. Being in great shape, having physical advantages, that's all important. How you move in relation to the people around you, the choices you make on which direction to go, how well you time things, how accurately you figure out when to get to the same place as the ball, how you find the soft spots in an opposing defense, these are all forms of brain function. Being able to run faster than others and jump higher is also partly brain function. If you ever watched Larry Bird play basketball, you would know what I mean. He was a great athlete, but he couldn't run that fast, and he could barely jump over his own shoelace. Yet still he is regarded as one of the all time top basketball players. I watched Bird play,you could throw in Mchale as well ,he always looked akward. But personally I put that down to physical skill as well as hand eye coordination. I guess its how you choose to define intelligent. Youre making a case for athletic ability being intelligence because of the amount of time it takes the body to react to what the brain is telling it to do . Which is more likely,Moss being able to play QB in the NFL or Brady being able to play WR? Id vote for Moss because of his athletic abilty,but that doesnt mean to me that Moss is more intelligent. Edited November 20, 2007 by xtra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 (edited) I watched Bird play,you could throw in Mchale as well ,he always looked akward. But personally I put that down to physical skill as well as hand eye coordination. I guess its how you choose to define intelligent. Youre making a case for athletic ability being intelligence because of the amount of time it takes the body to react to what the brain is telling it to do . I understand what you are trying to say,but by your explanation the ability to walk,cross your eyes ,snap your fingers or whistle would make you intelligent.Which basically means everyone is intelligent. I have already referenced the source material you should check out. I am not going to type the whole book for you These abilities you reference are things that mostly everyone can do, but they are simple examples. Would you consider Mozart a genius? Michaelangelo? Ghandi? Jesus Christ? Michael Baryshnikov? There is no evidence of these people having the type of intelligence you want to talk about Randy Moss having, but each of them has profoundly changed the world and excelled in an area that required a kind of genius. "How to think like Leonardo Da Vinci." If you want some perspective on why what you are saying is, at least in the opinion of some, a narrow minded concept of intelligence, then check it out. I am not discounting physical skill, you are discounting the brain behind the physical skill. Pair up all the physical skill of Randy Moss with th mind of a mentally handicapped person and you would not have an NFL star. It takes a brain, and different brains do different things well. Edited November 20, 2007 by Caveman_Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhattan Buckeye Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Here's more evidence of "Moss hatred", I'm not the author of the letter to King but I wrote something substantiall similar. I love King's response. The media hate Moss so much that it woud take "2 to 3 more years" of 20+ TDs a year (which is what Moss is on target for) to even be "likely thought" for consideration for the HOF. Simply stated, journalists should not get a vote. Here's the clip from Peter King's MMQQ Tuesday edition: "HOW CAN MOSS NOT BE HALL-WORTHY ALREADY? From Jeremy Krieg of Lima, Ohio: "First off, I wanted to say that me and my roommates look forward to MMQB each Monday. Keep up the great work. But I do have one question. What makes you say Moss' career is 'borderline Canton?' In my opinion, Moss is far and away the most physically talented WR to ever play the game (including Jerry Rice). On top of that, by the end of his career, his numbers will be second only to Rice, unless Moss can somehow overcome the "Oakland Era." Sure, Moss had some mess-ups in the past, but his football ability is second to none. If Moss isn't a first-ballot Hall of Famer, then the NFL will need to look at who they let vote for the award.'' Thanks for the kind words, and I'm a voter for the Hall. My thought: At several points in his career, Moss has been a dog on the field and not a team guy. His two years in Oakland were nightmarish, and scarred his career. Shouldn't giving up on pass routes and not going all out for a losing team be part of the discussion for Hall worthiness? I think they should. There's also the matter of judging a man in mid-career. None of know how long Moss will play, or whether he'll continue to play at the other-worldly level he's playing at now. If he plays this way another two or three years, I'll likely think he did enough to overlook his pockmarks and vote for him. But he's 30 years old. A great player at 30 is year-to-year, especially in the NFL. Let's let his career play out and make a judgment on eternity when he hangs up the spikes." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtra Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I have already referenced the source material you should check out. I am not going to type the whole book for you These abilities you reference are things that mostly everyone can do, but they are simple examples. Would you consider Mozart a genius? Michaelangelo? Ghandi? Jesus Christ? Michael Baryshnikov? There is no evidence of these people having the type of intelligence you want to talk about Randy Moss having, but each of them has profoundly changed the world and excelled in an area that required a kind of genius. "How to think like Leonardo Da Vinci." If you want some perspective on why what you are saying is, at least in the opinion of some, a narrow minded concept of intelligence, then check it out. I am not discounting physical skill, you are discounting the brain behind the physical skill. Pair up all the physical skill of Randy Moss with th mind of a mentally handicapped person and you would not have an NFL star. It takes a brain, and different brains do different things well. Ok.Randy Moss can run intelligent and catch a football intelligent.But as far as thinking or speaking intelligent he cant. Was Moss intelligent during his stint in Oakland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtra Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 (edited) Here's more evidence of "Moss hatred", I'm not the author of the letter to King but I wrote something substantiall similar. I love King's response. The media hate Moss so much that it woud take "2 to 3 more years" of 20+ TDs a year (which is what Moss is on target for) to even be "likely thought" for consideration for the HOF. Simply stated, journalists should not get a vote. Here's the clip from Peter King's MMQQ Tuesday edition: "HOW CAN MOSS NOT BE HALL-WORTHY ALREADY? From Jeremy Krieg of Lima, Ohio: "First off, I wanted to say that me and my roommates look forward to MMQB each Monday. Keep up the great work. But I do have one question. What makes you say Moss' career is 'borderline Canton?' In my opinion, Moss is far and away the most physically talented WR to ever play the game (including Jerry Rice). On top of that, by the end of his career, his numbers will be second only to Rice, unless Moss can somehow overcome the "Oakland Era." Sure, Moss had some mess-ups in the past, but his football ability is second to none. If Moss isn't a first-ballot Hall of Famer, then the NFL will need to look at who they let vote for the award.'' Thanks for the kind words, and I'm a voter for the Hall. My thought: At several points in his career, Moss has been a dog on the field and not a team guy. His two years in Oakland were nightmarish, and scarred his career. Shouldn't giving up on pass routes and not going all out for a losing team be part of the discussion for Hall worthiness? I think they should. There's also the matter of judging a man in mid-career. None of know how long Moss will play, or whether he'll continue to play at the other-worldly level he's playing at now. If he plays this way another two or three years, I'll likely think he did enough to overlook his pockmarks and vote for him. But he's 30 years old. A great player at 30 is year-to-year, especially in the NFL. Let's let his career play out and make a judgment on eternity when he hangs up the spikes." I think thats more harsh reality than Moss hatred. Edited November 20, 2007 by xtra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazysight Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Physical skill is part of these things, sure. Being in great shape, having physical advantages, that's all important. How you move in relation to the people around you, the choices you make on which direction to go, how well you time things, how accurately you figure out when to get to the same place as the ball, how you find the soft spots in an opposing defense, these are all forms of brain function. Being able to run faster than others and jump higher is also partly brain function. If you ever watched Larry Bird play basketball, you would know what I mean. He was a great athlete, but he couldn't run that fast, and he could barely jump over his own shoelace. Yet still he is regarded as one of the all time top basketball players. Don't need to jump so high when you're 6'9 to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunysteelfly76 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Was Moss intelligent during his stint in Oakland? Yes, he got paid millions for doing nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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