Bill Swerski Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 Just mostly on him , this isn't something new with this guy, I think most NYG fans would agree Eli is holding the rest of the club back. So their horrible O-line, mediocre secondary, and the HC that none of the players respect aren't holding them back? While Eli appears to be a pretty average QB and somewhat of a bust for a #1 overall pick, the Giants just really aren't that good. Bringing in the Pillsbury Throw Boy isn't going to solve any of their problems. Firing Coughlin and acquiring better offensive linemen will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 We'll trade Tarvaris straight up for Eli... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 Eli plays behind one of the worst O-lines in football, for one of the worst coaches in football. His two main receiving threats constantly have their head up their asses, breaking off routes short, running the wrong routes, and quitting on plays. Like any QB, when he has someone in his face all day long he is going to make mistakes, and these mistakes are magnified by his receivers not running the routes correctly and dropping passes. Add to that they have had no continuity in the running game. Their D isn't that good, so they are usually having to throw the ball. When you add it all up it is a recipe for disaster. Eli will never live up to his brother or his draft status, but put him behind a decent O-line with one good WR who doesn't quit on routes, and he could and should be an above average NFL QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 To the guys dumping on the Giants O-line, you've obviously not been watching Giants games this year. They work exceptionally we as a run blocking unit and are more than adequate in their pass blocking. No, the O-line isn't the problem and as Front Row said, it isn't Coughlin either although I'll be glad to see him go. Eli is the problem. It's not his mechanics or his arm or anythign like that. He simply can't handle pressure. What he needs is not another QB coach but a good sports psychologist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 To the guys dumping on the Giants O-line, you've obviously not been watching Giants games this year. They work exceptionally we as a run blocking unit and are more than adequate in their pass blocking. No, the O-line isn't the problem and as Front Row said, it isn't Coughlin either although I'll be glad to see him go. Eli is the problem. It's not his mechanics or his arm or anythign like that. He simply can't handle pressure. What he needs is not another QB coach but a good sports psychologist. I don't think that you're watching your team very closely. The O-line is certainly below-average in pass-protection. Burress is playing hurt and hasn't practiced since Week 1. Both he and Shockey are also knuckleheads who quit on their routes at times. Coughlin sucks at developing QBs. What does it tell you that Brunell maxed out at 20 TDs - and only managed to do that TWICE - in 8 years in Jacksonville (with Smith, McCardell, Brady, Taylor, Boselli, Searcy, etc. as a supporting cast)? He threw for 4,000 yards ONCE (and also 20 INTs that same year). Brunell's best year was arguably two years ago in Washington at age 35. While I agree that Eli ain't all that, this thread clearly demonstrates that it's a lot easier to blame everything on a QB than it is to use one's brain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 To answer the threads title I believe they have the same mother... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 That sounds pretty knee-jerk to me, especially since Lorenzen has done absolutely nothing to validate your prediction. But I do agree that the Giants would benefit from a new QB and, perhaps more importantly, a complete overhaul of the coaching staff. It's difficult to win games when the players don't respect the HC and don't play hard for him. So their horrible O-line, mediocre secondary, and the HC that none of the players respect aren't holding them back? While Eli appears to be a pretty average QB and somewhat of a bust for a #1 overall pick, the Giants just really aren't that good. Bringing in the Pillsbury Throw Boy isn't going to solve any of their problems. Firing Coughlin and acquiring better offensive linemen will. I don't think that you're watching your team very closely. The O-line is certainly below-average in pass-protection. Burress is playing hurt and hasn't practiced since Week 1. Both he and Shockey are also knuckleheads who quit on their routes at times. Coughlin sucks at developing QBs. What does it tell you that Brunell maxed out at 20 TDs - and only managed to do that TWICE - in 8 years in Jacksonville (with Smith, McCardell, Brady, Taylor, Boselli, Searcy, etc. as a supporting cast)? He threw for 4,000 yards ONCE (and also 20 INTs that same year). Brunell's best year was arguably two years ago in Washington at age 35. While I agree that Eli ain't all that, this thread clearly demonstrates that it's a lot easier to blame everything on a QB than it is to use one's brain. I didn't asy anything about Burress or Shockey so clearly reading is something still challenging to you. Burress has been playing hurt and not practicing, that's well known and documented and it certainly isn't helping the team. Shockey's a knucklehead, no argument there. I'll also agree with you that Coughlin isn't going to develop QB's, he pretty much throws them to the wolves. But you implied earlier (see above quotes) that it was about the players respect for the HC, not his inability to develop QBs. So basically you'll say anything to try and pick a fight. Way to go. Your opinion of the Giants O-line is nothing more than that, your opinion. In my opinion, this thread clearly demonstrates what a tool you are: jumping to conclusions, blathering on about anything, and being your usual obnoxious self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 (edited) I didn't asy anything about Burress or Shockey so clearly reading is something still challenging to you. Burress has been playing hurt and not practicing, that's well known and documented and it certainly isn't helping the team. Shockey's a knucklehead, no argument there... Your opinion of the Giants O-line is nothing more than that, your opinion. In my opinion, this thread clearly demonstrates what a tool you are: jumping to conclusions, blathering on about anything, and being your usual obnoxious self. LOL, what was that you were saying about picking a fight? I'll also agree with you that Coughlin isn't going to develop QB's, he pretty much throws them to the wolves. But you implied earlier (see above quotes) that it was about the players respect for the HC, not his inability to develop QBs. So basically you'll say anything to try and pick a fight. Way to go. BOTH factors are problematic. Or do I need to ask your permission before I bring up more evidence that supports my argument? The lack of respect also ties into how the players play. Apparently you don't remember all of the problems that Brunell had with Coughlin's attitude in JAX. You think constant animosity between a HC/OC and his QB might hinder the QB's development? Do you think that Burress and Shockey's lack of respect for their HC makes them want to work extra-super-hard to help their QB move the chains? Why don't you go back to copying and pasting knee-jerk quotes from the Post and Daily News now. That suits your mentality much better than posting something intelligent. Edited November 26, 2007 by Bill Swerski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 they are related.... Peyton can't read hieroglyphs..and Eli can't read a defense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 That sounds pretty knee-jerk to me, especially since Lorenzen has done absolutely nothing to validate your prediction. But I do agree that the Giants would benefit from a new QB and, perhaps more importantly, a complete overhaul of the coaching staff. It's difficult to win games when the players don't respect the HC and don't play hard for him. +1 This whole team is problematic on offense. Eli looks like the scapegoat after this terrible game, but the coaching needs to take some blame as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 +1 This whole team is problematic on offense. Eli looks like the scapegoat after this terrible game, but the coaching needs to take some blame as well. Be careful, you may be accused of "trying to start a fight" if you argue this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengal Mania Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 Not even gonna read this thread. The title is all I needed to cheer up my day. Thanks for the laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disfunction Junction Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 Don't be so rough on Eli. If he is anything like his brother it will take 6 or 7 years to win a playoff game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 LOL, what was that you were saying about picking a fight? BOTH factors are problematic. Or do I need to ask your permission before I bring up more evidence that supports my argument? The lack of respect also ties into how the players play. Apparently you don't remember all of the problems that Brunell had with Coughlin's attitude in JAX. You think constant animosity between a HC/OC and his QB might hinder the QB's development? Do you think that Burress and Shockey's lack of respect for their HC makes them want to work extra-super-hard to help their QB move the chains? Why don't you go back to copying and pasting knee-jerk quotes from the Post and Daily News now. That suits your mentality much better than posting something intelligent. No, I clearly remember Coughlin's days in Jax, it's why I hated the idea of him as a HC for the Giants. And as I agreed once already, I don't think he's capable of developing a QB. No, you were trashing the O-line and I was pointing out that the Giants O-line isn't as bad as the picture you (and perch) were trying to paint. Burress' and Shockey's attitude are irrelevant to the O-line play. Now regardless of Coughlin's skills as a personal manager or QB developer, I don't believe Eli has ever shown the ability to rise to the occasion as the pressure increases. That includes both during individual plays and over the course of a season. As the pressure increases Eli's ability to perform as a QB takes a dive. BTW, show me where I've posted a knee jerk quote from any paper. I have no idea what you're talking about and I'm pretty sure that you don't either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtra Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 Look back at Peytons stats his first 4 years,he had around 110 Tds,but 80 ints.Elis are a little worse,but this is around the time Peyton started getting better numbers.Throw him under the bus now and someone else may enjoy the groundwork the Giants have already layed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 No, you were trashing the O-line and I was pointing out that the Giants O-line isn't as bad as the picture you (and perch) were trying to paint. Burress' and Shockey's attitude are irrelevant to the O-line play. But Burress' and Shockey's attitude (which is reflected in the way that they dog their routes) is NOT irrelevant to Eli's play. Now regardless of Coughlin's skills as a personal manager or QB developer, I don't believe Eli has ever shown the ability to rise to the occasion as the pressure increases. That includes both during individual plays and over the course of a season. As the pressure increases Eli's ability to perform as a QB takes a dive. I don't necessarily disagree with that. I've seen him blow games (like yesterday) and also do a good job of keeping them close under pressure (Dallas earlier this year, Seattle last year). Like I said before, I think that Eli's pretty average and isn't going to live up to his draft status. But I agree with perch that he would likely perform better in a different system with better coaching. But putting ALL of the blame on him is pretty silly. The Giants have a number of other problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disfunction Junction Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 Eli is a joke.Those who support Eli, how do you withstand his poor play? He consistently puts his team in a position to lose.He's done nothing in the playoffs and this year hasn't been anything spectacular. 6 of the 7 Giants wins are against teams under .500 (with the exception of a bad Detroit team) and 3 of their 4 losses are against plus .500 teams. Those wins include victories over the 0-10 Dolphins, the 2-9 Jets, the 3-8 49ers and the 3-8 Falcons. People are giving Eli too much credit for not really proving anything at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtra Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 (edited) Eli is a joke.Those who support Eli, how do you withstand his poor play? He consistently puts his team in a position to lose.He's done nothing in the playoffs and this year hasn't been anything spectacular. 6 of the 7 Giants wins are against teams under .500 (with the exception of a bad Detroit team) and 3 of their 4 losses are against plus .500 teams. Those wins include victories over the 0-10 Dolphins, the 2-9 Jets, the 3-8 49ers and the 3-8 Falcons. People are giving Eli too much credit for not really proving anything at all. Youre puttin the blame on him for 4 losses,so he gets credit for the 7 wins too? If not then whoever got credit for the 7 wins should take credit for the 4 losses? Edited November 26, 2007 by xtra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disfunction Junction Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 Youre puttin the blame on him for 4 losses,so he gets credit for the 7 wins too?If not then whoever got credit for the 7 wins should take credit for the 4 losses? You dont actually watch the games or do you you sit on the computer and look at the box score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 Isn't Disfunction Junction an OIA alias? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtra Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 (edited) You dont actually watch the games or do you you sit on the computer and look at the box score. I actually watch most of the games each week,maybe you should try it .You might actually learn to place the blame in all the areas it is deserved instead of picking out the obvious scapegoats.. Edited November 26, 2007 by xtra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disfunction Junction Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 Isn't Disfunction Junction an OIA alias? Aren't you a Manning butt licker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 Isn't Disfunction Junction an OIA alias? correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 correct. Hey, Disfektard Welcher, how many hundreds do you still owe spain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disfunction Junction Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 I actually watch most of the games each week,maybe you should try it .You might actually learn to place the blame in all the areas it is deserved instead of picking out the obvious scapegoats.. I do. Not so sure what you don't understand. If I don't know what I'm talking about, I guess Manning hasn't had games like: 63.7 65.4 44.9 72.7 78.2 75.5 This is acceptable? If you are going to go around saying that people don't know what they are talking about, especially me, you had better have facts and information to back yourself up. I have offered information and all you have said is that I don't know anything. That is annoying. Back up your proclamations of idiocy with some information, or don't say anything at all. Good quarterbacks perform well week-in-week out and maybe have a game like this once or twice a year. But with Eli, he plays poorly 6 to 8 games out of the year, if not more. Eli is a bad QB. Inconsistent, throws into double coverage, under throws receivers, throws off his back foot alot and he displays poor leadership qualities.These things don't just happen by chance year after year. He is so damn bad that it's not even fair to bash him anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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