Cowboyz1 Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 (edited) It's no coincidence that both Moss and TO are setting the bar with their respective teams and very happy in doing so. I admit and most of you will have to go along with me here, that there was no way I thought we would get this kind of production and teamate out of TO. Winning is one thing but he is one of the biggest part of it for us. Moss is doing his thing in New England and they all seem to have great things about them. Just maybe it wasn't so much the Player as it was the Organization huh? I mean yeah they both have made some ruff beds for themselves but looking back maybe they were right when they complained about the organization NOT doing everything they could to win. Mcnabb has lost it and DID run out of gas as TO said. Parcells was holding the O back. Great players just want the ball and can we blame them? Give it to them. Oakland is in shambles and Moss wanted no part of them and why would he at his age. I would probably want to walk off the field too after not seeing the ball all year with his talent. TO and Moss are putting together HOF type years and they are both supposedly BAD guys. Maybe not.............. I never thought I would be saying this right now but I sure am glad Owens is with us and not against us and I suspect Pats fans might feel the same about Moss. Edited December 1, 2007 by Cowboyz1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FantasyvsReality?Fantasy Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 It's no coincidence that both Moss and TO are setting the bar with their respective teams and very happy in doing so. I admit and most of you will have to go along with me here, that there was no way I thought we would get this kind of production and teamate out of TO. Winning is one thing but he is one of the biggest part of it for us. Moss is doing his thing in New England and they all seem to have great things about them. Just maybe it wasn't so much the Player as it was the Organization huh? I mean yeah they both have made some ruff beds for themselves but looking back maybe they were right when they complained about the organization NOT doing everything they could to win. Mcnabb has lost it and DID run out of gas as TO said. Parcells was holding the O back. Great players just want the ball and can we blame them? Give it to them. Oakland is in shambles and Moss wanted no part of them and why would he at his age. I would probably want to walk off the field too after not seeing the ball all year with his talent. TO and Moss are putting together HOF type years and they are both supposedly BAD guys. Maybe not.............. I never thought I would be saying this right now but I sure am glad Owens is with us and not against us and I suspect Pats fans might feel the same about Moss. Yeah pats fans are happy and cowboy fans are happy but if either one of those two is around long enough to see a losing season on either of those teams you won't be happy with them anymore cause you'll see the true premadonna colors seeping through everyone's happy and a great teammate when ur 11-1 and 11-0! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboyz1 Posted December 1, 2007 Author Share Posted December 1, 2007 Yeah pats fans are happy and cowboy fans are happy but if either one of those two is around long enough to see a losing season on either of those teams you won't be happy with them anymore cause you'll see the true premadonna colors seeping through everyone's happy and a great teammate when ur 11-1 and 11-0! I wouldn't call Jerry Rice a premadonna but he was. When the niners weren't winning he was pretty pissed on the sidelines also. Great players want to play great and from what I have seen and heard, nobody works harder to succeed then TO in practice. I can understand not getting along with certain people and the media just piles on and makes things worse. TO is definately trying harder to get along from the beginning this year. I could here it in his interviews. Good for him for working on his persona. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 It's no coincidence that both Moss and TO are setting the bar with their respective teams and very happy in doing so. I admit and most of you will have to go along with me here, that there was no way I thought we would get this kind of production and teamate out of TO. Winning is one thing but he is one of the biggest part of it for us. Moss is doing his thing in New England and they all seem to have great things about them. Just maybe it wasn't so much the Player as it was the Organization huh? I mean yeah they both have made some ruff beds for themselves but looking back maybe they were right when they complained about the organization NOT doing everything they could to win. Mcnabb has lost it and DID run out of gas as TO said. Parcells was holding the O back. Great players just want the ball and can we blame them? Give it to them. Oakland is in shambles and Moss wanted no part of them and why would he at his age. I would probably want to walk off the field too after not seeing the ball all year with his talent. TO and Moss are putting together HOF type years and they are both supposedly BAD guys. Maybe not.............. I never thought I would be saying this right now but I sure am glad Owens is with us and not against us and I suspect Pats fans might feel the same about Moss. Well said! I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark5 Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 MAYBE, TO and MOSS actually have grown up (early 30\s is a perfect time to accomplish this task for spoonfed gifted afletes) and put the team FIRST). There is NO DOUBT in my mind the winning records have ALOT to do with their new found attitude. I see most of TO's interviews living in TEXAS and he is saying all the right things (his stats have an impact on this) plus he knows he is target #1 and winning breeds good interviews!!! Moss has bought into the NE way of life. You could put the POPE in Oakland and he would bitch and take a few plays off.. A first hand story about Jerry Rice, my wife did some PR work for the Cowboys back when Rice played for San Fran, a special needs kid drew a picture of Rice and he wouldn't sign it because he was IN A HURRY !!!) Kinda crappy but worse things have happened.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishFreak Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Yeah pats fans are happy and cowboy fans are happy but if either one of those two is around long enough to see a losing season on either of those teams you won't be happy with them anymore cause you'll see the true premadonna colors seeping through everyone's happy and a great teammate when ur 11-1 and 11-0! I couldn't have said it better. These guys might be maturing and becoming better people but I have serious doubts. A true professional athlete plays hard for love of the game and respects their teamates. Moss and TO only play this way when their teams are winning and everything is rosey. Once things get dicey or their teams start losing these clowns show their true colors. Don't fall for these frauds. They are stud fantasy players but jackazzes in real life IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig devilz Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 wasn't it not that long ago that TO was barking at Romo? earlier this season? when they have Brady and Romo throwing to them, why wouldn't they be happy.... i admire them for wanting their talents to be used. the difference is, the Boys tolerate TO's bs...if Moss where to do that with the Patriots, he'd be gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtra Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 , the Boys tolerate TO's bs...if Moss where to do that with the Patriots, he'd be gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNasty Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 You don't learn everything about a man's character when things are going well. Both Moss and TO know they are walking a thin line between getting paid millions and being done in football. I'll give them credit that, for one season, they seem to have figured out that their behavior needed to be changed for their own benefit. That's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budlitebrad Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Have you listened to TO's interviews this season? He's the same egotistical c0ckholster he was in Philly and SF. Moss is doing well, but I still see him take plays off like he did in Oakland and Minnesota. If these teams weren't playoff contenders, you would see their true colors come out again. People can change, but these guys haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF409ers Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 A first hand story about Jerry Rice, my wife did some PR work for the Cowboys back when Rice played for San Fran, a special needs kid drew a picture of Rice and he wouldn't sign it because he was IN A HURRY !!!) Kinda crappy but worse things have happened.. When I was in Jr. High I had the opportunity to meet Jerry Rice. My mom was a flight attendant and he was on her flight coming into to PHX, she told him that her sons where huge 49er fans and huge fans of him. He told my mom that if she could get us to his hotel later that day he would meet with us. She and my father pulled my bro and I out of school and took us to meet him in the lobby of his hotel in PHX. He hung out with us and we got to chat with him for almost and hour, take photos, sign stuff, etc. The guy was one of the coolest and most down-to-earth pro sports players I have ever met. I am sure he has had his "bad days" but he was definitely not the "special needs kid hater" your COWBOYS PR wife told you about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish247 Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Have you listened to TO's interviews this season? He's the same egotistical c0ckholster he was in Philly and SF. Moss is doing well, but I still see him take plays off like he did in Oakland and Minnesota. If these teams weren't playoff contenders, you would see their true colors come out again. People can change, but these guys haven't. The "taking plays off" crap is just dumb at this point. You could fill a book with the articles that sportswriters keep bringing this up as evidence that Moss really isn't an elite WR but they never have anything negative to say about the results. Brady brought this up but I doubt anyone will kick up a fuss--calling into question Brady's leadership, desire to win, and/or HOF worthiness--for having the audacity to suggest it's ok for a WR to take a few plays off... "We had 54 pass attempts in the game, and you go out and tell a world-class sprinter to run 50 50-yard dashes, the idea is, 'You better have it when you need it.' And Randy is a smart player and he knows when he needs it," Brady said. "I have so much trust in him." or maybe his coach doesn't know what he's talking about... "Randy has done a good job for us. He's been a good leader, a good player, very productive," he said. "I'd say the same thing about Randy as I'd say about myself and every other player - he's not perfect. There are things he could do better. I make plenty of mistakes, so does everybody else." Full article Everyone remembers Randy for how he left Oakland and Minnesota but nobody remembers the disfunction that was/is present DESPITE Moss' presence... Minnesota got a new owner, Culpepper was sure he didn't need Moss (yet Culpepper's leadership never seems to come into question... he did in fact play a large role in getting a TEAMMATE off the team) then they all had a boat party. Oakland was struggling when he came in, he posted almost 200 more yards (with Kerry Collins at QB) than HOFer Lynn Swann did in any year, almost 200yds more than Marvin Harrison in his worst years, then management promptly gave up on the team (and Moss) by bringing in Aaron Brooks, Art Shell, and a B and B owner to run the offense. Moss is a HOF WR. In an era of offense, he redefined and revitalized the deep ball while being the common thread in the 2 BEST offenses. The rest is just chin and ego stroking from magazine, networks, former B and B owners, and writers trying to make the news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtra Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 In summary when the offense he is in excels he gets the credit,when it fails someone else gets the blame? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budlitebrad Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 The "taking plays off" crap is just dumb at this point. You could fill a book with the articles that sportswriters keep bringing this up as evidence that Moss really isn't an elite WR but they never have anything negative to say about the results. Brady brought this up but I doubt anyone will kick up a fuss--calling into question Brady's leadership, desire to win, and/or HOF worthiness--for having the audacity to suggest it's ok for a WR to take a few plays off... or maybe his coach doesn't know what he's talking about... Full article Everyone remembers Randy for how he left Oakland and Minnesota but nobody remembers the disfunction that was/is present DESPITE Moss' presence... Minnesota got a new owner, Culpepper was sure he didn't need Moss (yet Culpepper's leadership never seems to come into question... he did in fact play a large role in getting a TEAMMATE off the team) then they all had a boat party. Oakland was struggling when he came in, he posted almost 200 more yards (with Kerry Collins at QB) than HOFer Lynn Swann did in any year, almost 200yds more than Marvin Harrison in his worst years, then management promptly gave up on the team (and Moss) by bringing in Aaron Brooks, Art Shell, and a B and B owner to run the offense. Moss is a HOF WR. In an era of offense, he redefined and revitalized the deep ball while being the common thread in the 2 BEST offenses. The rest is just chin and ego stroking from magazine, networks, former B and B owners, and writers trying to make the news. I'm not commenting as much about their abilities as football players as I am their character. They are both amazing receivers and no one can deny that. I do think TO works harder than Moss on the field though. You definitely could see the old Moss at times when the Pats were playing the Eagles. I just think they are both a couple of punks who always put themselves first. They are happy and quiet now that teams are winning, but your actions when you lose is a lot better judge of character than when you win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig devilz Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 another snipet from the article link kingfish posted... ~In last Sunday's win, Moss was on the field for 71 of 73 offensive snaps. The only time he came off the field was when the Patriots went to their goal-line package in the first quarter, and for one third-quarter play after he ran a long route and was given a breather. The playing time was reflective of Moss's work through 11 games. Out of a possible 736 snaps - which includes snaps on which penalties were called and thus don't count as official plays - he has been on the field for a whopping 629. That 85 percent clip leads Patriots skill-position players (non-quarterbacks). Receiver Wes Welker is next at 483 snaps (66 percent).~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 You don't learn everything about a man's character when things are going well. My boss is an 80 year old self made millionaire in the garment center..I learned a lot of things from this guy and he always says you learn a salespersons true value when you watch them perform on the downside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosberg34 Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Yeah pats fans are happy and cowboy fans are happy but if either one of those two is around long enough to see a losing season on either of those teams you won't be happy with them anymore cause you'll see the true premadonna colors seeping through everyone's happy and a great teammate when ur 11-1 and 11-0! I couldn't have said it any better myself. In anything, things are always rosy when your winning. Let's see how they behave when the losing starts to happen (Oh... and it will. You just wait). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtra Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 another snipet from the article link kingfish posted... ~In last Sunday's win, Moss was on the field for 71 of 73 offensive snaps. The only time he came off the field was when the Patriots went to their goal-line package in the first quarter, and for one third-quarter play after he ran a long route and was given a breather. The playing time was reflective of Moss's work through 11 games. Out of a possible 736 snaps - which includes snaps on which penalties were called and thus don't count as official plays - he has been on the field for a whopping 629. That 85 percent clip leads Patriots skill-position players (non-quarterbacks). Receiver Wes Welker is next at 483 snaps (66 percent).~ Thats what he gets paid to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDFFFreak Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Please, please, please don't give too much credit to the Dallas Cowboys in the T.O. situation for knowing how to handle him beyond winning games. Any organization with an ounce of class or pride would not have signed the man who dissed the star only a few years back, not to mention he was a 2 time loser with historically pretty good franchises in how they treat players. Now Moss, on the other hand, I'll give more credit to the Pats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 There is NO DOUBT in my mind the winning records have ALOT to do with their new found attitude. And their "new found attitude" have a lot to do with the winning records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosberg34 Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 And their "new found attitude" have a lot to do with the winning records. You couldn't be any more wrong. You are completely ignoring history, my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboyz1 Posted December 2, 2007 Author Share Posted December 2, 2007 (edited) the difference is, the Boys tolerate TO's bs...if Moss where to do that with the Patriots, he'd be gone. Yeah the Pats would yell, "YOU Take your 16 touchdown and go Edited December 2, 2007 by Cowboyz1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 I couldn't have said it better. These guys might be maturing and becoming better people but I have serious doubts. A true professional athlete plays hard for love of the game and respects their teamates. Moss and TO only play this way when their teams are winning and everything is rosey. Once things get dicey or their teams start losing these clowns show their true colors. Don't fall for these frauds. They are stud fantasy players but jackazzes in real life IMO. You can tell someone's true character when they work hard even when they have nothing to gain. Like when their team is getting blown out yet they block until the last whistle. If they do that they have respect for the game. Moss I think has matured, TO i'm not as sure about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig devilz Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Yeah the Pats would yell, "YOU Take your 16 touchdown and go no, you missed the point... he's not being an ass NOW. so your point is moot. the Patriots would never let it get that far (see TDFFreak post above) and, they would'nt have signed him if they felt they couldn't reign him in and let him just be the great player he is...the Patriots run there house different than other team it's called a gag order.....i don't see any other team doing that to their players (right or wrong) we all know how tuff it is to get info, right?....you think thats by chance?...then your foolish TO on the other hand still shoots his mouth....he's a completly different bird than Moss. i don't remember Moss trying to commit suicide. next question..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 You couldn't be any more wrong. You are completely ignoring history, my friend. What history are you referring to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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