As a giants fan let me say .....

[detlef]

The Giants, on the other hand, had ZERO reason to risk injuries to their key players. Nobody was injured and they played a very good game so it is a no harm, no foul situation. But had Burress or Jacobs or Strahan or any number of other key players been injured and unavailable for the playoffs Giants fans would be screaming bloody murder this morning.

Once again, the Giants were hardly a team with enough momentum that they should have just stood pat. They've been terribly erratic and Manning hardly has played well enough to get the team really behind him. I think far too little is being made of the emotional lift entering the play-offs just after beating a team that nobody else had. Especially for Manning. For nearly the entire game, he'd put behind him an otherwise frustrating year. I can understand thinking the gains I speak of were not worth the risk, but to say they had nothing to gain seems narrow minded.

[MTSuper7]

Certainly I understand why the Patriots played their starters ... they are gunning for 19-0. Certainly they took a risk that somebody would get injured in a game that counts for nothing other than being a potential stepping stone to a historical accomplishment (19-0). So the Pats took just another step toward a historical year ... should they falter on any of the next 3 steps then their season is just another footnote and not that big of a deal (much like the two Chicago teams that went undefeated in the regular season and came up short in the playoff).

 

The Giants, on the other hand, had ZERO reason to risk injuries to their key players. Nobody was injured and they played a very good game so it is a no harm, no foul situation. But had Burress or Jacobs or Strahan or any number of other key players been injured and unavailable for the playoffs Giants fans would be screaming bloody murder this morning.

 

From my earlier post, they lost their starting center. It didn't look good, but maybe he will play next weekend.

[xtra]

19 out of 19 is more impressive than 17 out of 17. TO not admit so is simply sour grapes, before you even get to the MORE debatable notions of "THe Parity Era" or this "3rd All Time Easiest Schedule" stuff that has just cropped up.

Sour grapes or a sense of reality?

 

Two dartboards next to each other,the bullseye on the one in front of me is 50,the bullseye on yours is 25.We throw our darts.A bullseye for both of us,is mine a better shot because its worth 50?Or are they both great shots?

Edited December 31, 2007 by xtra

[Big John]

Why didnt the Dolphins play 19?

The NFL regular season was 14 games long in 1972.

[xtra]

The NFL regular season was 14 games long in 1972.

Thanks,I knew that.

 

Was trying to get him to say because thats the most they could play.But after thinking about it,didnt think it would do any good so I edited while you replied.

[Ursa Majoris]

Two dartboards next to each other,the bullseye on the one in front of me is 50,the bullseye on yours is 25.We throw our darts.A bullseye for both of us,is mine a better shot because its worth 50?Or are they both great shots?

 

Unless your dartboard analogy contains 19 separate shots, it's a nonsense.

[xtra]

 

Unless your dartboard analogy contains 19 separate shots, it's a nonsense.

Ok so, I get 19 darts and hit all bullseyes,Ill give you 17 and you hit all bullseyes.Am I better?

[Ursa Majoris]

Ok so, I get 19 darts and hit all bullseyes,Ill give you 17 and you hit all bullseyes.Am I better?

Yes.

 

Edit: Also, I was allowed to stand closer to the board than you (strength of schedule analogy)

Edited December 31, 2007 by Ursa Majoris

[xtra]

Yes.

 

Edit: Also, I was allowed to stand closer to the board than you (strength of schedule analogy)

 

A forum full of people as stubborn as me,I like.

 

 

But I still think Im right.

Edited December 31, 2007 by xtra

[matt770]

The Giants offense certainly didn't choke tonight. Even Eli was pretty good.

 

They blew an opportunity late in the game to kill the clock and add more points. After the Pats were forced to punt, they went 3 and out and gave the ball right back. On the following drive, Eli threw the pick. If they could have eaten some time off the clock and put more points on the board on either of these possessions, they probably win the game. Good teams play 4 quarters.

 

I don't understand the mentality of a Giants fan who says "great job" after a loss. This is the team of Parcells, LT, Simms and 2 rings. Anything less than another title is a disappointment. I would actually prefer to see them go 3-13 and start rebuilding the team, including firing the coach and get a high draft pick. Another playoff berth as a mediocre 5 seed is just a big tease. We all know they are going to lose either in Tampa or in the next round. Waste of time.

[kingfish247]

am very proud of the giants effort tonight ...they could have sat guys , rested starters and laid down but they played hard ....played hard all night long ...they made pats earn it...which pats did ...

 

 

Congrats to pats fans and for giant fans hope this effort allows for a good playoff run for Big Blue

Would've been a classy move had Strahan called for the defense to 'lay down' considering he has first hand knowledge about obtaining NFL records from opposing teams/players that 'lay down'...

 

[kingfish247]

I have to disagree. Going 16-1, 17-1 or 18-1 invalidates the whole undefeated season thing. Losing a game in the playoffs just means that NE had a soft schedule and couldn't finish.

 

Four AFC teams end up on the plus side of the scoring ledger vs. Quality Teams (compared with only one team in the NFC): New England, Pittsburgh, Indy and Jacksonville.

 

The Patriots, Colts and Jaguars all boast four or more wins over Quality Teams, compared with only the Packers in the NFC.

......

The Patriots, of course, were dominant by every imaginable measure this year, including by our Quality Standings. Seven of their 16 wins came against Quality Teams, tops in the NFL. The better than 2-to-1 scoring margin against Quality Teams (38.3 to 19.0) is where New England truly separates itself.

 

We don't know if it's the best ever (our Quality Standings only go back so far). But we do know this: we have tracked the records vs. Quality Opponents of every single Super Bowl champion and none comes close to that kind of scoring differential.

 

We also know this: if the Patriots do win the Super Bowl, their 10-0 record vs. Quality Teams would match the record set by the 2003 Patriots.

Edited December 31, 2007 by kingfish247

[keggerz]

conversely one could be worried that they finished the year out in less then grand fashion(outside of 16-0)

over the course of the final 6 weeks 3 wins came by 3points in each game vs teams with a combined 3-19 Quality Win #

in a 4th(jets) their offense was only able to muster up 1 offensive TD and that came after recovering a punt inside the 5

their only win to really thump their chests about would be the Pitt game where pitt is 3-2 in Quality Wins and the Pats beat them 34-13 they also went on to crush the Phins but even in that game they didnt score a single point in the 2nd half

 

but hey they keep winning and that is all that matters....but of course a new season just started so non of the regular season stuff really matters now because everyone is 0-0 in the playoffs so far

[isleseeya]

I don't understand the mentality of a Giants fan who says "great job" after a loss. This is the team of Parcells, LT, Simms and 2 rings. Anything less than another title is a disappointment. I would actually prefer to see them go 3-13 and start rebuilding the team, including firing the coach and get a high draft pick. Another playoff berth as a mediocre 5 seed is just a big tease. We all know they are going to lose either in Tampa or in the next round. Waste of time.

 

it was a great job when you consider the giants could have started me at QB and it would not have mattered ..they had zero to play for , could have rested a bunch of guys , pulled starters out after a series or two ...but they did none of that

 

look at some of the games yestreday that were meaningless for some teams ...Jax gives up 42 , Pitt gives up 27 to a team that cant score 27 pts in a month , dallas was miserable and should have stayed in Texas , etc ...yet the Giants played a full hard 4 quarters and did make the Pats earn it

 

I am a die hard giants fan since 1980 and while this is not a Parcells team and this is not the same Giants team of past ...and this team is very likely not a super bowl team , but they gave a very good effort and show on Saturday night

[Dirty Sanchez]

it was a great job when you consider the giants could have started me at QB and it would not have mattered ..they had zero to play for , could have rested a bunch of guys , pulled starters out after a series or two ...but they did none of that

 

look at some of the games yestreday that were meaningless for some teams ...Jax gives up 42 , Pitt gives up 27 to a team that cant score 27 pts in a month , dallas was miserable and should have stayed in Texas , etc ...yet the Giants played a full hard 4 quarters and did make the Pats earn it

 

I am a die hard giants fan since 1980 and while this is not a Parcells team and this is not the same Giants team of past ...and this team is very likely not a super bowl team , but they gave a very good effort and show on Saturday night

Not to mention they played neck and neck with and almost beat a team that might go down in history as the best team ever. A team that was on a mission to break records. If they can play like that in the playoffs, we may have another NFC contender for the SB.

[kingfish247]

over the course of the final 6 weeks 3 wins came by 3points

It would've been classless to get all 16 wins by 3 or more TDs.

they also went on to crush the Phins but even in that game they didnt score a single point in the 2nd half

That's classless to even suggest they should've scored a point in the 2nd half.

their only win to really thump their chests about would be the Pitt game where pitt is 3-2 in Quality Wins

Dallas is 4-2 in quality wins and NE won by 21 points. There's also Indy who if it weren't for playing non-starters for 3 quarters last night would probably be 5-2 in quality wins. Indy played NE much closer than average though.

 

NE can 'thump their chest' after this season, SB win or not. The best single year of scoring offense in the history of the NFL and a 16-0 record beating 7 teams that ended this season with a .500+ win % while outscoring them on average by 2 to 1. Only 3 other playoff teams faced 7 teams with a .500 win %. To say they had a soft schedule or that they only played a few 'good' teams is just wrong. Sure they didn't play the 2004 Pats, '89 Niners, '85 Bears, '72 Dolphins, or '79 Steelers... but they beat everyone on their schedule.

 

They still have work to do but this season will be remembered for NE's offense and a 16-0 record. Sure winning the SB is the ultimate but in 5 or 10 years there will be about that many more SB winners. In 5, 10, 15 or 25 years, it is very likely that NO team will match NE's 16-0 record WHILE shattering most major single season offensive records.

[keggerz]

It would've been classless to get all 16 wins by 3 or more TDs.

 

That's classless to even suggest they should've scored a point in the 2nd half.

 

Dallas is 4-2 in quality wins and NE won by 21 points. There's also Indy who if it weren't for playing non-starters for 3 quarters last night would probably be 5-2 in quality wins. Indy played NE much closer than average though.

 

NE can 'thump their chest' after this season, SB win or not. The best single year of scoring offense in the history of the NFL and a 16-0 record beating 7 teams that ended this season with a .500+ win % while outscoring them on average by 2 to 1. Only 3 other playoff teams faced 7 teams with a .500 win %. To say they had a soft schedule or that they only played a few 'good' teams is just wrong. Sure they didn't play the 2004 Pats, '89 Niners, '85 Bears, '72 Dolphins, or '79 Steelers... but they beat everyone on their schedule.

 

They still have work to do but this season will be remembered for NE's offense and a 16-0 record. Sure winning the SB is the ultimate but in 5 or 10 years there will be about that many more SB winners. In 5, 10, 15 or 25 years, it is very likely that NO team will match NE's 16-0 record WHILE shattering most major single season offensive records.

first i was just busting your chops.....but Dallas wasn't one of the final 6 games(pitt was and that was what i was talking about) and nowhere in this thread did i say they had a soft schedule. I talked about their performance the last 6 games of the year...but hey 16-0 is 16-0 and I already said Congrats for that

Edited December 31, 2007 by keggerz

[PatsFanCT]

first i was just busting your chops.....but Dallas wasn't one of the final 6 games(pitt was and that was what i was talking about) and nowhere in this thread did i say they had a soft schedule. I talked about their performance the last 6 games of the year...but hey 16-0 is 16-0 and I already said Congrats for that

 

Yeah, don't factor in weather conditions or teams playing way above their heads to knock them off, but hey, other than that your point still has 0 merit.

[xtra]

Yeah, don't factor in weather conditions or teams playing way above their heads to knock them off, but hey, other than that your point still has 0 merit.

Playing above their heads?If they are capable of playng that way how is it above their heads?

 

Weather conditions?Didnt both teams play in the same weather?

[keggerz]

Yeah, don't factor in weather conditions or teams playing way above their heads to knock them off, but hey, other than that your point still has 0 merit.

 

 

Playing above their heads?If they are capable of playng that way how is it above their heads?

 

Weather conditions?Didnt both teams play in the same weather?

 

16-0, again i say congrats to that but the above statement by PatsFanCT is just a way to try and avoid admitting that they looked less then stellar over the last 6 games and that they shouldnt expect to just have a cake walk in the playoffs because they did indeed go 16-0

[WaterMan]

Less than stellar setting two new NFL records.

 

One by my man Moss.

[xtra]

Less than stellar setting two new NFL records.

 

One by my man Moss.

What do the records have to do with how impressive or unimpressive they looked against other teams?

Edited January 1, 2008 by xtra

[HowboutthemCowboys]

Nobody was injured and they played a very good game so it is a no harm, no foul situation.

*Linebacker Kawika Mitchell suffered a knee sprain in the first quarter and did not return. Mitchell won the NFC Defensive Player of the Week award for is outstanding performance last week in Buffalo, where he intercepted a pass and returned it for a touchdown and had two sacks among his six tackles. Second-year pro Gerris Wilkinson took his place on the weak side and finished with seven tackles (four solo).

 

Another starter, center Shaun O’Hara, sprained his knee in the second quarter and did not return. He was replaced by Grey Ruegamer.

 

Cornerback Sam Madison left the game in the fourth quarter with an abdominal strain.

 

Rookie safety Craig Dahl sprained his knee covering the Giants’ first kickoff and did not return.

[Dirty Sanchez]

*Linebacker Kawika Mitchell suffered a knee sprain in the first quarter and did not return. Mitchell won the NFC Defensive Player of the Week award for is outstanding performance last week in Buffalo, where he intercepted a pass and returned it for a touchdown and had two sacks among his six tackles. Second-year pro Gerris Wilkinson took his place on the weak side and finished with seven tackles (four solo).

 

Another starter, center Shaun O’Hara, sprained his knee in the second quarter and did not return. He was replaced by Grey Ruegamer.

 

Cornerback Sam Madison left the game in the fourth quarter with an abdominal strain.

 

Rookie safety Craig Dahl sprained his knee covering the Giants’ first kickoff and did not return.

The only one of those that was serious was Dahl.

All of the others might play against the Bucs. I'm sure they'll all do whatever it takes to be on the field.

[PatsFanCT]

Playing above their heads?If they are capable of playng that way how is it above their heads?

 

Weather conditions?Didnt both teams play in the same weather?

 

Of course the weather conditions effected both teams, that's the point. *Keggerz fishing trip about the Pats "only" winning three games by 3 points making them look less that stellar is ridiculous.

 

And yes, they certainly did play above their heads. How does a Baltimore team that takes the undefeated Pats down to the wire, who should have won, lose to Miami? If the Ravens and the Eagles played all season the way they played the Pats, they would have been in the playoffs. And the Giants would have won their division. If you don't think teams find a little extra in the tank when they play a game of that magnitude, you're as crazy as *keggerz.