Tford Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Unless the prospect is a Quarterback (QB is the only position where I really value football IQ moreso than others), do you really care what their Wonderlic score is? Other than a cheap laugh at the expense of the lower scores, how many GMs out there really value mental tests over physical measureables? I know that Kevin Curtis scored a 50 out of 50 on his Wonderlic; does that really make him a better receiver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budlitebrad Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 (edited) GMs probably put more emphasis on certain positions like MLB, S and OL, since they are the ones who usually need to read the opponent, call out protections, run/pass, etc. Edited March 23, 2008 by budlitebrad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Unless the prospect is a Quarterback (QB is the only position where I really value football IQ moreso than others), do you really care what their Wonderlic score is? Other than a cheap laugh at the expense of the lower scores, how many GMs out there really value mental tests over physical measureables? I know that Kevin Curtis scored a 50 out of 50 on his Wonderlic; does that really make him a better receiver? You know what, I would say yes. Obviously though, a higher Wonderlic score for a QB is more significant than for a WR, but I think a higher score would make any player, regardless of position, "better". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budlitebrad Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 You know what, I would say yes. Obviously though, a higher Wonderlic score for a QB is more significant than for a WR, but I think a higher score would make any player, regardless of position, "better". Alex Smith? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Alex Smith? Just imagine what it would be like if he was dumb... Wow... Didn't Frank Gore socre a 6? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budlitebrad Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Didn't Frank Gore socre a 6? Well he is dyslexic. Or did you purposely misspell that as a clever pun? : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Unless the prospect is a Quarterback (QB is the only position where I really value football IQ moreso than others), do you really care what their Wonderlic score is? Other than a cheap laugh at the expense of the lower scores, how many GMs out there really value mental tests over physical measureables? I know that Kevin Curtis scored a 50 out of 50 on his Wonderlic; does that really make him a better receiver? Fyi, curtis didn't get a 50 Curtis has the highest score of any active player in the NFL — a 48. Reportedly, only one player in NFL history has scored higher — Harvard grad Pat McInnally, a receiver/punter for the Cincinnati Bengals who scored a perfect 50 in 1976. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chappy Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Fyi, curtis didn't get a 50 Curtis has the highest score of any active player in the NFL — a 48. Reportedly, only one player in NFL history has scored higher — Harvard grad Pat McInnally, a receiver/punter for the Cincinnati Bengals who scored a perfect 50 in 1976. That would be correct, which by the way is incredible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Cheezhead Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Each position on the field requires a different level of raw intelligence, surely. But intelligence is a HUGE factor when it comes to how a player receives coaching. For most players, intelligence is overrated on the field of play, but especially in the NFL, you have to be smart enough to listen to what your coaches tell you -- and implement it QUICKLY. What I hate is when the pundits out there go out of their way to discredit the Wonderlic, like it's completely useless. It's not the end-all, be-all of predictor of future performance, but it has it's place among ALL the individual pieces of the puzzle. It's also probably overrated when it comes to separating a good player from a superstar. Both have to be smart, but you don't achieve superstar status unless, obviously, you have the whole package. On the flip side, I bet a LOT of the guys who get released every August did poorly on their Wonderlics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Unless the prospect is a Quarterback (QB is the only position where I really value football IQ moreso than others), do you really care what their Wonderlic score is? On offense, the adage is that the smarter you are, the closer they play you to the football. I think that's true to an extent, especially in the pros. QBs have to have the ability to grasp what have become War & Peace sized playbooks, and O-linemen have to be able to adapt blocking schemes and recognized Ds despite being up on the line in a couple of seconds time. That requires significant mental ability. RBs & WRs, however - especially WRs - don't have to be Rhodes scholars to play their positions, though extra intelligence obviously is an advantage. I think LBs & SSs also have to have a good level of intelligence in order to be very good - like O-linemen, they are required to read and make multiple snap decisions immediately prior to each play as well as in the first second or two of each play. As far as DLs, CBs, and FSs - intelligence is what separates a lot of the better ones from the rest of the pack, is an advantage, but isn't a position requirement. So when I see a DT with a wunderlick score of 11, it doesn't phase me too much. When I see a QB or OT with the same wunderlick score it makes me take pause and re-evaluate them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Generally speaking the smartest guy on the field is the center. On most teams centers make the line calls. It has been a long time, but I read somewhere that on offense, the positions rank in order C,G,G, T, T, QB, TE, FB, WR, RB. I don't know that I've ever seen anything on the defense, though I'd imagine that safeties and inside linebackers are probably the top two, followed by corners, then outside linebackers, then DE's with DT's bringing up the rear. almost the exact opposite of the offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budlitebrad Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 From the Wikipedia article on the test: According to Paul Zimmerman's The New Thinking Man's Guide to Pro Football, examples of average scores for each position are: Offensive tackle - 26 Center - 25 Quarterback - 24 Guard - 23 Tight end - 22 Safety - 19 Linebacker - 19 Cornerback - 18 Wide receiver - 17 Fullback - 17 Halfback - 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 So when I see a DT with a wunderlick score of 11, it doesn't phase me too much. When I see a QB or OT with the same wunderlick score it makes me take pause and re-evaluate them. +1 A bad Wonderlic for a QB isn't a death sentence, but one has to wonder how well he'll be able to run an offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish247 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 (edited) Personally, I think it's a crapshoot... at every position. Yes, even at QB. Couple of examples... In 2002... Joey Harrington = 32. David Carr = 22. David Garrard = 14. 2001... Quincy Carter = 30. Drew Brees = 28. 1999... Cade McNown = 28. Akili Smith = 26. Donovan McNabb = 14. 1998... Peyton Manning = 28. Ryan Leaf = 27. 1995... Steve McNair = 15. 1991... Brett Favre = 22. 1985... Randall Cunningham = 15. 1984... Steve Young = 33. 1983... John Elway = 29. Jim Kelly = 15. Dan Marino = 15. Obviously one would prefer for the QB to be both smart AND good at playing QB but it really comes down to just being good or not. Edited March 24, 2008 by kingfish247 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 1985... Randall Cunningham = 15. Cunningham's success came when he was a young, scrambling QB and when he was an older, less mobile guy who padded his stats by throwing to Moss and Carter. He got run out of Philly when Gruden took over because he couldn't run his complex WCO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Cunningham's success came when he was a young, scrambling QB and when he was an older, less mobile guy who padded his stats by throwing to Moss and Carter. He got run out of Philly when Gruden took over because he couldn't run his complex WCO. This may not end well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish247 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Cunningham's success came when he was a young, scrambling QB and when he was an older, less mobile guy who padded his stats by throwing to Moss and Carter. He got run out of Philly when Gruden took over because he couldn't run his complex WCO. Fair enough. But still, the bottomline question is this... would you rather have the brain trust of Joey Harrington/Quincy Carter/Cade McNown or the not as smart Randall Cunningham as your QB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish247 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 (edited) Cunningham's success came when he was a young, scrambling QB and when he was an older, less mobile guy who padded his stats by throwing to Moss and Carter. He got run out of Philly when Gruden took over because he couldn't run his complex WCO. Also... Gruden was gone by this time but if the WCO is so complex then how did the equally mentally challenged Wonderlic flunky, Donovan McNabb (14), manage to get drafted (and subsequently excel) by the same team running the same offense? Edited March 24, 2008 by kingfish247 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 (edited) Fair enough. But still, the bottomline question is this... would you rather have the brain trust of Joey Harrington/Quincy Carter/Cade McNown or the not as smart Randall Cunningham as your QB? Intelligence is a desirable trait in any player, most especially a QB. It is not however THE determing factor in QB success, as we can obviously see. Edited March 24, 2008 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish247 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Intelligence is a desirable trait in any player, most especially a QB. It is not however THE determing factor in QB success, as we can obviously see. It's a desirable trait however at the end of the day a QB either has the goods to play the position or he doesn't... outstanding Wonderlic score or not. I'm sure that in hindsight the Lions, Texans, Bengals, Bears etc. would rather have drafted a good QB than a QB that can calculate the speed of a train or determine the next number of a sequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Also... Gruden was gone by this time but if the WCO is so complex then how did the equally mentally challenged Wonderlic flunky, Donovan McNabb (14), manage to get drafted (and subsequently excel) by the same team running the same offense? Probably because the Wonderlic isn't a 100% accurate indication of a person's intelligence. And probably because McNabb is either more intelligent than his score suggests or because he had a better work ethic than Cunningham. As was stated earlier in this thread, a bad Wonderlic score for a QB is a red flag... and nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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