McFadden in Silver and Black

[polksalet]

So if you've seen him play so much, and have such low expectations for him, can you provide us with more insight than "Mcfadden will not make it as a stud rb in the league."

First off he is weak. Yeah everyone looks at hig huge arms but how much really does that matter? Yeah, he might be able to stiff arm a cb but how will he get there? Doesn't it seem like he will have to break a tackle first? What happens on short yardage? His legs are small and weak. Yeah he is fast but when it is 4th and 2 do you really think a 4.3 at the combine is going to impress Casey Hampton? He is at best an average receiver which is not exactly a plus when you are a sopeed back with no power. If he catches the ball in the flat he can make some things happen but because of his poor receiving skills (from personal observation) it wil be too risky to get him the ball to to make the play in the first place. Because he can't move the pile he will be forced to take it outside, and I don't care if you run a 3.5, when an nfl defense can make you one dimensional you are done for.

 

So now you have a super fast back who can't run inside. Does that sound like Reggie Bush minus the receiving skills?

 

When you factor two bar fights, his family being a bunch of criminals, and hiw low football IQ, I just do not see it panning out for him. I think he will learn to catch the ball out of the backfield and pick up blitzes, which he has never had to do. After the league learns of his deficincies they will take the outside away and you will have very little left.

 

My prediction for this year is 900 5 with a 4.0 ypc on the ground and 400 2 through the air. His ypc will be inflated by several long runs but ultimately he will not cut it as a feature back. Next year they will plug a power back in with him and with his better receving skills, if that moron Russel can get him the ball, will get him 500 and 2 on the ground and 500 and 3 through the air.

 

Is that enough extra opining?

 

Edited April 29, 2008 by polksalet

[Return Of S&B]

First off he is weak. Yeah everyone looks at hig huge arms but how much really does that matter? Yeah, he might be able to stiff arm a cb but how will he get there? Doesn't it seem like he will have to break a tackle first? What happens on short yardage? His legs are small and weak. Yeah he is fast but when it is 4th and 2 do you really think a 4.3 at the combine is going to impress Casey Hampton? He is at best an average receiver which is not exactly a plus when you are a sopeed back with no power. If he catches the ball in the flat he can make some things happen but because of his poor receiving skills (from personal observation) it wil be too risky to get him the ball to to make the play in the first place. Because he can't move the pile he will be forced to take it outside, and I don't care if you run a 3.5, when an nfl defense can make you one dimensional you are done for.

 

So now you have a super fast back who can't run inside. Does that sound like Reggie Bush minus the receiving skills?

 

When you factor two bar fights, his family being a bunch of criminals, and hiw low football IQ, I just do not see it panning out for him. I think he will learn to catch the ball out of the backfield and pick up blitzes, which he has never had to do. After the league learns of his deficincies they will take the outside away and you will have very little left.

 

My prediction for this year is 900 5 with a 4.0 ypc on the ground and 400 2 through the air. His ypc will be inflated by several long runs but ultimately he will not cut it as a feature back. Next year they will plug a power back in with him and with his better receving skills, if that moron Russel can get him the ball, will get him 500 and 2 on the ground and 500 and 3 through the air.

 

Is that enough extra opining?

 

 

 

Don't worry Polk...I'll save this post just for you...and will re-post after McFadden gets his Rookie of the Year honors

[polksalet]

 

Don't worry Polk...I'll save this post just for you...and will re-post after McFadden gets his Rookie of the Year honors

 

If he gets a combined 1300 and 6-7 as I have predicted he may very well win ROY. ROY however does not make you legit nfl rb. Only several years of full-time production can do that for you.

[byron2112]

But McFadden does run inside, he does punish defenders and he does finish runs moving forward.

 

He's nothing like Reggie Bush. He ran the ball 300+ times in 12 games last season.

 

You're talking out of your rectum Polk.

[polksalet]

But McFadden does run inside, he does punish defenders and he does finish runs moving forward.

 

He's nothing like Reggie Bush. He ran the ball 300+ times in 12 games last season.

 

You're talking out of your rectum Polk.

 

Mcfadden was a marginal inside runner in college. He had Jones sprinting out on a lot of plays which also helped open up the middle. There is a lot of difference in the league compared to college. You shall see. FWIW I am very rarely wrong, especiall about football and anything razorback.

[CMac83]

I also think McFadden is overrated. The lack of strength, the character issues & fumbles all make me very concerned. I've stated previously that I expect Jonathan Stewart to have the better overall career as an all-purpose back.

 

Someone mentioned that Kelly was more effective at playing the 3 technique than DE. Why did they move him away from DT then in the first place? He's a liability against the run inside, and they tried to remedy that. He's better outside, where he is facing players less accomplished at run blocking at OT, and still has the speed to get after the quarterback.

[Return Of S&B]

Someone mentioned that Kelly was more effective at playing the 3 technique than DE. Why did they move him away from DT then in the first place? He's a liability against the run inside, and they tried to remedy that. He's better outside, where he is facing players less accomplished at run blocking at OT, and still has the speed to get after the quarterback.

 

Wrong, they moved him outside because Sapp played the Under-Tackle position (3- technique) and Kelly doesnt have the size to play Nose-Tackle. He is not the pass-rusher Sapp was, but he is a better tackler and should improve the rush defense by default playing at the 3-technique position and replacing Sapp, who was always known as a great pass rusher....not run stuffer.

 

If you bothered to actually read my post I clearly explained that the weakness of the run defense was Sands (NT) and Sapp (UT) last year....not Kelly. Kelly is the best tackler on the team and the 3-technique is his natual position.

Edited April 29, 2008 by Return Of S&B

[rajncajn]

The exit of Stuart Swieg out of the lineup will have a very positive impact on the middle of the D.

 

The Raiders are also rumored to be signing Grady Jackson to park his fat ass in the middle from time to time.

Funny, but extremely accurate analogy.

 

Local sports radio guys used to play the intro to the Fat Albert show every time they discussed him Jonathan Sullivan and Norman Hand. They dubbed them the "Heavy Lunch Bunch."

Edited April 29, 2008 by rajncajn

[CMac83]

Wrong, they moved him outside because Sapp played the Under-Tackle position (3- technique) and Kelly doesnt have the size to play Nose-Tackle. He is not the pass-rusher Sapp was, but he is a better tackler and should improve the rush defense by default playing at the 3-technique position and replacing Sapp, who was always known as a great pass rusher....not run stuffer.

 

If you bothered to actually read my post I clearly explained that the weakness of the run defense was Sands (NT) and Sapp (UT) last year....not Kelly. Kelly is the best tackler on the team and the 3-technique is his natual position.

 

Because Sapp was so effective there?? I did actually read your post, and I'm not disputing that the two DTs were the main problem against the run last year. Let's go back to when Kelly was the 3-technique tackle then. In 2006, Oakland was 25th against the run. In 2005, they were also 25th against the run. You can blame the lack of an impact NT all you want, but the bottom line is that some of the blame has to fall on Kelly too. And this had to factor into the decision to move him outside. Also, I would argue that Kelly's strength is his pass rushing, although he's certainly not as accomplished at it as Sapp was in his prime.

 

At any rate, they're going back to roughly the same type of personnel which had them rank 25th two years in a row against the run. You will never ever convince me that McFadden over Dorsey was the right pick. The Raiders can't stop the run, and until they can, they're not going to come close to competing in that division.

Edited April 29, 2008 by CMac83

[kpholmes]

Because Sapp was so effective there?? I did actually read your post, and I'm not disputing that the two DTs were the main problem against the run last year. Let's go back to when Kelly was the 3-technique tackle then. In 2006, Oakland was 25th against the run. In 2005, they were also 25th against the run. You can blame the lack of an impact NT all you want, but the bottom line is that some of the blame has to fall on Kelly too. And this had to factor into the decision to move him outside. Also, I would argue that Kelly's strength is his pass rushing, although he's certainly not as accomplished at it as Sapp was in his prime.

 

Yes Kelly does need to take his share of the blame, however he is by nature a 3-Technique lineman, and that's where he needs to play. They moved him outside because Sapp needed to play the 3-Technique once the Raiders moved back to the 4-3, and they would have rather put big-bodied Sands at nose, and had Kelly rotate with Brayton at DE. He is not a DE by any means.

 

The problem with the Raiders D-Line is not that they don't have talent, the problem is that they don't have a balanced amount of talent. By that I mean that Burgess and Kelly are both pass rushers, and they excel at it - yet the other two players on the line don't balance that by being amazing run stoppers. They obviously need to fill the nose tackle position as well as the other DE position with players that can fill the holes and close the outside gaps.

 

Dorsey is a 3-Technique DT that would have been paid as the 4th overall pick. Kelly has the biggest DT contract in the NFL. Either way you'd be paying one player way too much money to be playing out of position.

You don't draft Randy Moss and ask him to put 50-60 LBs on so he can play TE. Sure, he'd be mediocre at the position because he can catch - but you're not maximizing his talent at that position, yet still paying him for the production you'd expect at his best.

 

Obviously the Raiders should have pursued a solid Nose during FA, or gone after one with a trade. However, they used a lot of picks and money on other positions: bringing in Gibril Wilson, so Huff could move back to his natural safety position, allowing him to play up to his full potential, (see where I'm going with this?) and bringing in DeAngello Hall to compliment Asomuagh. As well as securing a solid 3-Technique DT in Kelly so they didn't have two gaping holes on their D-Line.

 

I know McFadden doesn't fit the team's needs, but that doesn't mean that Dorsey was the right pick. He would have been a wasted investment.

Edited April 29, 2008 by kpholmes

[CMac83]

I guess we'll agree to disagree on this one. I think I like Kelly outside at DE much more than you do. He was pretty good there throughout the season when he was healthy, although his sack total didn't reflect it. He could be moved back inside on passing downs to allow another speed guy opposite Burgess to rush the QB.

 

Thinking about it, I'm not sure it's even that I like Kelly outside more. I've just seen the Raiders get run over for so long now that I think the situation needed to be addressed no matter what. If that meant paying Kelly all that money to play out of position... To me, it's worth it. He'd still have been reasonably effective there, and perhaps the Raiders could have actually ranked in the top 20 on defense vs the run.

[Return Of S&B]

Because Sapp was so effective there?? I did actually read your post, and I'm not disputing that the two DTs were the main problem against the run last year. Let's go back to when Kelly was the 3-technique tackle then. In 2006, Oakland was 25th against the run. In 2005, they were also 25th against the run. You can blame the lack of an impact NT all you want, but the bottom line is that some of the blame has to fall on Kelly too.

 

I dont know where you get your info from but Tommy Kelly never was the starting 3-technique tackle for the Raiders. Warren Sapp occupied that position in 2005, 2006 and 2007...there was no way the Raiders were going to start Kelly over Sapp while Sapp was active or not injured.

 

Sure Kelly filled in at that spot here and there but from 2005 through 2007, Kelly mainly played DE and NT. The only time Kelly played at the 3-technique position was when Sapp was out with an injury.

 

2008, will be the first year that Tommy Kelly will be designated the starter at 3-technique tackle for the season, his natural position.

Edited April 29, 2008 by Return Of S&B

[CMac83]

I never said he was the starting 3-technique DT. Most teams use heavy rotations along the defensive lines anyway, especially at DT. Obviously in '05, Washington was the nose and Sapp was the under tackle. However, Sapp missed 6 games that year with Kelly filling in as the starter. The Raiders gave up an average of 149 rushing yards during those 6 games. Is it a small sample size? Yes, but it can't be completely ignored either.

 

Sapp obviously had a great resurgence in '06, but was banged up for a portion of that season where Kelly had to be used increasingly too (though Sapp never missed a full game). And you're right, Kelly played a lot of nose here as well. I don't give him a full pardon for that though.

 

Then '07 came where Kelly was performing admirably at DE, and was arguably the team's best strength vs the run when considering positions.

 

Again, I'm not saying that Kelly playing out of position is the ideal scenario. But not improving a run defense which has been nothing short of terrible over the past few years was a bigger mistake.

Edited April 29, 2008 by CMac83

[Return Of S&B]

You make some valid points CMac...they didnt improve their run defense through the draft this year. They did obtain DTs Gerrard Warren last year and William Joseph this year, but who knows how effective either of these guys can be rotating with Kelly and Sands. Warren did seem to produce while he was in there during the short time he was healthy last year but nothing substantial on the defensive line was done.

 

One thing that you are failing to see though, is what type of an effect Mcfadden will have on the whole team.

 

I don't care who you are, if you are a player who plays on defense for a team with an offense that is one of the worst in the league, an offense that leads the league in turnovers and leads the league in 3-and-outs, at some point you just dont care. What's the point? You know your team is going to loose anyway. You know you can't rely on your offense to pull out any wins. Everything is dependent on you to hold on to that slim 2 or 3 point lead with 10 minutes to go in the game...which happened a lot last year. Sometimes that works, but as shown last year, most of the time it didnt.

 

Now, if your offense all of the sudden has a playmaker that can bring your offense up from below mediocre levels of play to a level that is somewhat respectable....you have hope. Your not on the field as much, because the 3-and-outs and turnovers are less frequent, you do not continously have to play conservative trying to hold on to 2 or 3 pt leads at the end of each game. You can take risks, because you know that your offense can score to win the game if needed.

 

Sure, McFadden is not a sure-fire All-Pro Hall of Famer, but he had by far the most upside of anyone in this draft and no one on the football field can help turn a team around as quickly as a great running back.

[polksalet]

The professor just said on espn that they are going to try and get crack around 500 yards on the ground and catch a lot of passes out of the backfield.

[rajncajn]

I think it was Kiffin that was quoted on ESPN yesterday that McFadden would be used in a Reggie Bush type role and that Fargas will be the workhorse, 1000 yard back.

[Caveman_Nick]

I think it was Kiffin that was quoted on ESPN yesterday that McFadden would be used in a Reggie Bush type role and that Fargas will be the workhorse, 1000 yard back.

 

 

[Dutch Oven]

First off he is weak. Yeah everyone looks at hig huge arms but how much really does that matter? Yeah, he might be able to stiff arm a cb but how will he get there? Doesn't it seem like he will have to break a tackle first? What happens on short yardage? His legs are small and weak. Yeah he is fast but when it is 4th and 2 do you really think a 4.3 at the combine is going to impress Casey Hampton? He is at best an average receiver which is not exactly a plus when you are a sopeed back with no power. If he catches the ball in the flat he can make some things happen but because of his poor receiving skills (from personal observation) it wil be too risky to get him the ball to to make the play in the first place. Because he can't move the pile he will be forced to take it outside, and I don't care if you run a 3.5, when an nfl defense can make you one dimensional you are done for.

 

So now you have a super fast back who can't run inside. Does that sound like Reggie Bush minus the receiving skills?

 

When you factor two bar fights, his family being a bunch of criminals, and hiw low football IQ, I just do not see it panning out for him. I think he will learn to catch the ball out of the backfield and pick up blitzes, which he has never had to do. After the league learns of his deficincies they will take the outside away and you will have very little left.

 

My prediction for this year is 900 5 with a 4.0 ypc on the ground and 400 2 through the air. His ypc will be inflated by several long runs but ultimately he will not cut it as a feature back. Next year they will plug a power back in with him and with his better receving skills, if that moron Russel can get him the ball, will get him 500 and 2 on the ground and 500 and 3 through the air.

 

Is that enough extra opining?

 

 

You are so biased about anything Razorback that you spew ignorance everytime you talk about it. McFadden can move the line by himself and has done so many times, and most fo his runs started off inside as where Jones had most of the outside stuff. If you can carry 25-30 times a game in SEC play, I think that should quiet the "weak" talk. BTW, 1300 total yards and 5 TDs would be pretty good for a rook.

[polksalet]

You are so biased about anything Razorback that you spew ignorance everytime you talk about it. McFadden can move the line by himself and has done so many times, and most fo his runs started off inside as where Jones had most of the outside stuff. If you can carry 25-30 times a game in SEC play, I think that should quiet the "weak" talk. BTW, 1300 total yards and 5 TDs would be pretty good for a rook.

 

I guess you are right. I was all wrong about Matt Jones, Batman Carrol, Madre Hill, and thus farJamaal Anderson.being flops. However I was right about Shawn Andrews (who you gys turned on) and Jason peters making it. Of course if you took the time to read what something other than posts aginst your theology you would have noticed my glowing reviews of Felix Jones. But then agian it is this sort of zealous uaf naziism that turned me against the swine in the first place.

[polksalet]

You are so biased about anything Razorback that you spew ignorance everytime you talk about it. McFadden can move the line by himself and has done so many times, and most fo his runs started off inside as where Jones had most of the outside stuff. If you can carry 25-30 times a game in SEC play, I think that should quiet the "weak" talk. BTW, 1300 total yards and 5 TDs would be pretty good for a rook.

 

Feel free to post a link showing mcrack bowling over d lineman and linebackers. I'm sure sometime in his three years someone posted these on youtube or is this just another conspiracy against the poor little piggies? Seriously, I would like to see some proof of this. I am a fantasy football player and if I am wrong I want to know.

Edited May 2, 2008 by polksalet

[Dutch Oven]

I guess you are right. I was all wrong about Matt Jones, Batman Carrol, Madre Hill, and thus farJamaal Anderson.being flops. However I was right about Shawn Andrews (who you gys turned on) and Jason peters making it. Of course if you took the time to read what something other than posts aginst your theology you would have noticed my glowing reviews of Felix Jones. But then agian it is this sort of zealous uaf naziism that turned me against the swine in the first place.

 

 

Feel free to post a link showing mcrack bowling over d lineman and linebackers. I'm sure sometime in his three years someone posted these on youtube or is this just another conspiracy against the poor little piggies? Seriously, I would like to see some proof of this. I am a fantasy football player and if I am wrong I want to know.

 

I am far from the biggest Hog fan out there and the hyperbole involved with you associating my post with naziism absolutely ridiculous..

 

That being said, I looked on Youtube, and there's not much on there really, but if you find highlights from last year's Alabama and LSU games specifically, you will find several examples of what I am talking about.

[polksalet]

I am far from the biggest Hog fan out there and the hyperbole involved with you associating my post with naziism absolutely ridiculous..

 

That being said, I looked on Youtube, and there's not much on there really, but if you find highlights from last year's Alabama and LSU games specifically, you will find several examples of what I am talking about.

 

I think you made my point better than I can. Heil razorbacks, pig sooiee!!

[Sleeping King]

First off he is weak. Yeah everyone looks at hig huge arms but how much really does that matter? Yeah, he might be able to stiff arm a cb but how will he get there? Doesn't it seem like he will have to break a tackle first? What happens on short yardage? His legs are small and weak. Yeah he is fast but when it is 4th and 2 do you really think a 4.3 at the combine is going to impress Casey Hampton? He is at best an average receiver which is not exactly a plus when you are a sopeed back with no power. If he catches the ball in the flat he can make some things happen but because of his poor receiving skills (from personal observation) it wil be too risky to get him the ball to to make the play in the first place. Because he can't move the pile he will be forced to take it outside, and I don't care if you run a 3.5, when an nfl defense can make you one dimensional you are done for.

 

So now you have a super fast back who can't run inside. Does that sound like Reggie Bush minus the receiving skills?

 

When you factor two bar fights, his family being a bunch of criminals, and hiw low football IQ, I just do not see it panning out for him. I think he will learn to catch the ball out of the backfield and pick up blitzes, which he has never had to do. After the league learns of his deficincies they will take the outside away and you will have very little left.

 

My prediction for this year is 900 5 with a 4.0 ypc on the ground and 400 2 through the air. His ypc will be inflated by several long runs but ultimately he will not cut it as a feature back. Next year they will plug a power back in with him and with his better receving skills, if that moron Russel can get him the ball, will get him 500 and 2 on the ground and 500 and 3 through the air.

 

Is that enough extra opining?

 

 

Sorry Polk but for someone who says they watched a lot of Arkansas games you could not be more wrong. The fact that you compare Bush to McFadden already has you down the wrong road. Kiffin can say they may use him like Bush but they have very little in common as a runner.

 

Bush is a dancer. His moves are 10x better than McFadden's. One of the main knocks on DMC is that he does not make enough attempts to avoid contact. Generally he thinks he can bull over a defender. He would usually get in front of his lineman's blocks because of impatience. Doesn't sound anything like Bush. They both have tremendous speed which leads to long TD runs but that really is about it.

 

He is 10x the inside runner Bush is. Most of his TD's were inside rushes. Remember the Wild Hog formation. 99% of his runs out this formation were delayed draws up the middle. Jones would come in motion, he would fake a handoff and then sprint up the middle.

 

His hands are not poor. Are they on Bush's level. Absolutely not. Bush is a WR playing RB. McFadden can make plenty of plays in the passing game though.

 

Everyone has a right to be wrong. I've been wrong plenty but I absolutely expect him to be pure greatness. As far as an active NFL player comparison...pretty hard but I would say he has some Clinton Portis in him. He reminds me most though of OJ. Here's to hoping he doesn't get married to a white girl.

Edited May 3, 2008 by Sleeping King

[polksalet]

He loves taking on cb's and some safeties but that doesn't mean he is a good inside runner. I hope this thug fails and I believe he will.

[Sleeping King]

He loves taking on cb's and some safeties but that doesn't mean he is a good inside runner. I hope this thug fails and I believe he will.

 

Sounds like you have a personal vendetta against him. Makes it hard to have a honest observation of someone. I do it too. For example-I think all the Jets suck, luckily my homerness does not blind the truth.