AtomicCEO Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Doesn't matter which to me. Delhomme had a much better team around him when he almost reached the SB than what Brees has ever had. Delhomme also had one of the best WR in the game playing for him If one wanted to debate this, they could bring up Steve Smith's pro numbers without Delhomme at the helm. Is Steve Smith that good? Or is Delhomme to Smith good? I think if you put a healthy Delhomme in New Orleans, and a healthy Brees in Carolina... New Orleans would get to the Superbowl first. But that's just me speculating about a perfect imaginary world. I am rooting hard for Delhomme this year, and I consider him a bargain in drafts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Talker Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 I am rooting hard for Delhomme this year, and I consider him a bargain in drafts. Totally agreed on that, or at least the part about him being a bargain. I'll root hard for him if I draft him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Delhomme literally put an under-talented team on his back, and led them to within four seconds of a Super Bowl upset of the Patriots. He has all the tools of being a superior leader to Brees, who at this point hasn't proven he can win a tug-of-war with my daughter, let alone lead a team to a Super Bowl. This is not a "who has better stats" topic...the original poster asked "who would you want to lead your NFL team"? No brainer.....Delhomme That's what I was thinking... How many playoff wins does Drew Brees have again? I don't think it's that cut and dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish247 Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 I don't think it's even close - Brees. All Brees does is prove people wrong. I don't see how anyone can validate Delhomme in this argument. What he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 I don't think it's even close - Brees. All Brees does is prove people wrong. I don't see how anyone can validate Delhomme in this argument. I don't understand how people think it's so cut and dry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 I don't understand how people think it's so cut and dry... Well, he did lose that game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 I don't understand how people think it's so cut and dry... Ah, the old 'one game' argument A few years back you could use this argument and say that Dilfer was better than Manning since he won a SB and all. I don't know - perhaps some of you see this as a toss up but for me Brees is clearly the better QB. Brees is a more accurate passer, seems to do a better job of spreading the ball around and has made household names out of a 7th round draft pick (Colston) and an undrafted TE. Delhomme seems to lock onto one guy and force feeds that player the ball (see Muhammed and Smith), hence accumulating nice stats in the process. Brees's growth pattern and consistency suggests he will be a top QB for many years to come - he is also just entering his prime. Since his first 3 years (his learning years) he has been the starter for 4 seasons and has thrown 27,24,26 & 28 TDs respectively. Delhomme on the other hand has only thrown more than 20 TDs twice (04 & 05) when he threw 29 and 24 TDs respectively. If you look at any of the great QBs you will see similar consistency to Brees. If you pay attention to patterns, this is clearly an indicator of future success (barring injury). Let's not forget that Brees also underwent offseason shoulder surgery on his throwing arm and didn't miss a beat. Brees is a no-brainer for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 A few years back you could use this argument and say that Dilfer was better than Manning since he won a SB and all. Dilfer was better than Manning. His command of the field and ability to win the big game made him a much better QB in Baltmore. Plus, Dilfer got along better with his kickers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Dilfer was better than Manning. His command of the field and ability to win the big game made him a much better QB in Baltmore. Plus, Dilfer got along better with his kickers. At first your argument was unconvincing - then I read the bolded part above and it all makes sense now. The QB/PK rapport is a very undervalued asset in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Brees or Delhomme? Which is the better QB? The crack addicts stick out like sore thumbs during the offseason, don't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 At first your argument was unconvincing - then I read the bolded part above and it all makes sense now. The QB/PK rapport is a very undervalued asset in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Brees's growth pattern and consistency suggests he will be a top QB for many years to come - he is also just entering his prime. Since his first 3 years (his learning years) he has been the starter for 4 seasons and has thrown 27,24,26 & 28 TDs respectively. Delhomme on the other hand has only thrown more than 20 TDs twice (04 & 05) when he threw 29 and 24 TDs respectively. Ah, the old "stats" argument. Which part of Brees's "growth pattern" helped him lead his team to am 0-4 start last year (he threw 1TD, and 9 INTs during that stretch), effectively ending what was supposed to be a deep-playoff season before it started? If you look at any of the great QBs you will see similar consistency to Brees. If you pay attention to patterns, this is clearly an indicator of future success (barring injury). Let's not forget that Brees also underwent offseason shoulder surgery on his throwing arm and didn't miss a beat. Not sure which of the great QBs, when they were 28 and in their 7th NFL season, ever played as poorly as Brees did last year in what was supposed to be a coming-out party? Listen, I don't think Brees is a bad QB. he just isn't half the leader that Delhomme is....leadership is an unmeasureable trait, but on the surface, it appears Delhomme is oozing it., and Brees notsomuch. One other item you didn't mention about the stat argument: Brees has had LT, Deuce and Bush as his Rbs to take some heat of him and allow him time to find open WRs. Delhomme has had....hmmmm....Deshaun Foster, Butch Goings and Deangelo Williams? Gimme a break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budlitebrad Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Definitely Brees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Delhomme literally put an under-talented team on his back, and led them to within four seconds of a Super Bowl upset of the Patriots. He has all the tools of being a superior leader to Brees, who at this point hasn't proven he can win a tug-of-war with my daughter, let alone lead a team to a Super Bowl. This is not a "who has better stats" topic...the original poster asked "who would you want to lead your NFL team"? No brainer.....Delhomme And of course, the ultimate conclsuion of this tactic is that Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, & Jeff Hostetler are (were) much better QBs than either Brees or Delhomme. QB stats comparison: Completion percentage: Brees by 6.70% better than Delhomme (63.7% vs 59.7%) Yards per attempt: Delhomme by 2.86% better than Brees (7.2 ypa vs 7.0 ypa) TD/INT ratio: Brees by 4.49% better than Delhomme (1.63 vs 1.56) Passing yards per game: Brees by 11.71% better than Delhomme (232.8 ypg vs 108.4 ypg) Sack/attempt percentage: Brees by 27.81% better than Delhomme (4.18% vs 5.79%) Aned not to be underestimated: Brees has missed 6 games since 2002, whereas Delhomme has missed 28. That's a slam dunk to Brees. Exactly how many leagues do you own Delhomme in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Ah, the old "stats" argument. Which part of Brees's "growth pattern" helped him lead his team to am 0-4 start last year (he threw 1TD, and 9 INTs during that stretch), effectively ending what was supposed to be a deep-playoff season before it started? Not sure which of the great QBs, when they were 28 and in their 7th NFL season, ever played as poorly as Brees did last year in what was supposed to be a coming-out party? Listen, I don't think Brees is a bad QB. he just isn't half the leader that Delhomme is....leadership is an unmeasureable trait, but on the surface, it appears Delhomme is oozing it., and Brees notsomuch. One other item you didn't mention about the stat argument: Brees has had LT, Deuce and Bush as his Rbs to take some heat of him and allow him time to find open WRs. Delhomme has had....hmmmm....Deshaun Foster, Butch Goings and Deangelo Williams? Gimme a break. When comparing players, unfortunately the only way to accurately do that is by using applicable statistics. Regardless of NOs record and Brees stats for the first 4 games of last year - it is still a team game - who's to say that poor O-line performance didn't play a hand in Brees's poor stats. It was still only 4 games - which is why it's pertinent to compare careers and not just a cluster of games to prove yourself correct. Wins and losses are not decided by one player no matter how important you think the player/position is. While I would agree that intangibles such as leadership and hustle should be considered - there is really no way to accurately compare one to the other. You say Delhomme is the better leader, I say Brees - neither one of us can prove our point intelligently because there are no stats to back up either claim. We can, however, use stats to prove other important facets of the QB position like completion %, TDs, TD/INT ratios, QB ratings and a whole bunch more. I stand by my claim that Brees is not just a better QB but a much better QB than Delhomme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 And of course, the ultimate conclsuion of this tactic is that Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, & Jeff Hostetler are (were) much better QBs than either Brees or Delhomme. QB stats comparison: Completion percentage: Brees by 6.70% better than Delhomme (63.7% vs 59.7%) Yards per attempt: Delhomme by 2.86% better than Brees (7.2 ypa vs 7.0 ypa) TD/INT ratio: Brees by 4.49% better than Delhomme (1.63 vs 1.56) Passing yards per game: Brees by 11.71% better than Delhomme (232.8 ypg vs 108.4 ypg) Sack/attempt percentage: Brees by 27.81% better than Delhomme (4.18% vs 5.79%) Aned not to be underestimated: Brees has missed 6 games since 2002, whereas Delhomme has missed 28. That's a slam dunk to Brees. Exactly how many leagues do you own Delhomme in? Actually, zero...I'm not a big fan of either QB. But I thought I'd weigh in. That being said, and moreto the point at hand, I hope your not thinking that, if you were going to pick a QB to lead your team, you'd pick the guy with the best stats? Historically, If I were starting a team, I would not pick Fouts or Marino, even though their stats supremely eclipse those of leader-QBs I'd select light years ahead of them. Bradshaw and Aikman come to mind as field generals I'd like on my team....their stats would tell you they should be nowhere near the top of any list. I would have selected Brady even before this past season over anyone in the league, because he, to me, is the best all-around Qb in the league, even when his stats said he wasn't. What makes Brees the better leader in your opinion? The original poster asked quote "If you had to choose one for your NFL team, who would it be? Thanks. ".....assuming both QBs healthy, I'd choose Delhomme...he has proven he can lead his team effectively. After watching Brees single-handedly cost his team its season with a dreadful first four games last year, I have less faith than I ever have had that Brees would be the horse I'd ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 When comparing players, unfortunately the only way to accurately do that is by using applicable statistics. Regardless of NOs record and Brees stats for the first 4 games of last year - it is still a team game - who's to say that poor O-line performance didn't play a hand in Brees's poor stats. It was still only 4 games - which is why it's pertinent to compare careers and not just a cluster of games to prove yourself correct. Wins and losses are not decided by one player no matter how important you think the player/position is. So if stats are "the only way to accurately compare players", are you saying that the players with the best stats are those that are "better" than those with lesser stats? I hope not. While I would agree that intangibles such as leadership and hustle should be considered - there is really no way to accurately compare one to the other. You say Delhomme is the better leader, I say Brees - neither one of us can prove our point intelligently because there are no stats to back up either claim. Excellent point, well taken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 So if stats are "the only way to accurately compare players", are you saying that the players with the best stats are those that are "better" than those with lesser stats? I hope not. Not in an absolute sense - but generally, I think I would agree that better stats = better player. Again, GENERALLY, not absolutely. To point out an exception to the above generalization - I have always been a Montana guy even though Marino and Elway may have been better statistically. The thing that I always keep in mind is that no matter how good a given player is to his team - football, above all other sports, is the complete team sport. I've stated this many o time here on the huddle (especially in a good old fashioned Manning v Brady thread). No stats are completely credited to a given player and this is why football is my favorite sport. Success is always attributed to the completeness of the team - same with statistics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 (edited) Actually, zero...I'm not a big fan of either QB. But I thought I'd weigh in. Why not? If you believe what you are shoveling is in fact true, and you know that Brees has been (roughly dependent upon scoring system) the 6th, 2nd, & 4th best FF QB in the league over the past 4 years, you ought to be making every effort to get a QB whom you consider to be a better QB, especially when you can get him at a much cheaper price than the one Brees comes at. Historically, If I were starting a team, I would not pick Fouts or Marino, even though their stats supremely eclipse those of leader-QBs I'd select light years ahead of them. Bradshaw and Aikman come to mind as field generals I'd like on my team....their stats would tell you they should be nowhere near the top of any list. You're kidding, right? This has to be a fishing trip. Edited June 23, 2008 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Why not? If you believe what you are shoveling is in fact true, and you know that Brees has been (roughly dependent upon scoring system) the 6th, 2nd, & 4th best FF QB in the league over the past 4 years, you ought to be making every effort to get a QB whom you consider to be a better QB, especially when you can get him at a much cheaper price than the one Brees comes at. This is not a fantasy football question....I'd probabbly take Bress as my fantasy QB over Delhomme (even though Delhomme was clearly outperforming him last year before his injury)...though again, much would depend on each team's defense, and whether each team would be playing from behind, whether they could effectively run the football, health of the OL, WR corps....lots of outside factors would go into the decision. This is a "who would I want leading my NFL team" question... Brentastic stated it perfectly....hypothetically, who would you rather have leading your Broncos? Montana/Elway or one of the QBs that had "better stats" than them (i.e Fouts/Moon/etc). I think Brees is soft, lacks a pocket presence, and is half the leader I'd want on my team. While Delhomme may not have the better passing completition, TD/INT ratio, yards per game, etc., those things can be compensated for by being a better leader, a better teammate, and a better football player. I want a QB that leads by example, and that my team rallies around. Delhomme seems to have gotten more from his team with less to work with. Brees, in my opinion, has always under-delivered when it matter most. Watching him self-destruct last year in his "coming-out" season was as brutal display of football as I have seen in some time. While his team was bad, he was worse... Not a fishing expedition...but this post has morphed into more of a topic of what should be used to determine the better leader for a football team. You seem to think that the best "stats" should be the deciding factor...I disagree. Just two different opinions. No harm, no foul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 How retarded. This must really be the slow season. Throw out stats, winning percentage, yada yada yada......and here is a novel idea....watch the two of them play!!!! Anybody that were to watch the two of them play and determine that Delhomme is the better quarterback might want to consider soccer forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Somehow I think that this thread is one massive fishing trip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Anybody that were to watch the two of them play and determine that Delhomme is the better quarterback might want to consider soccer forums. I think that you are underrating Delhomme's good years, and overrating Brees's bad years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Why not? If you believe what you are shoveling is in fact true, and you know that Brees has been (roughly dependent upon scoring system) the 6th, 2nd, & 4th best FF QB in the league over the past 4 years, you ought to be making every effort to get a QB whom you consider to be a better QB, especially when you can get him at a much cheaper price than the one Brees comes at. This isn't about fantasy, it's about who you'd want leading your team. Delhomme looks a lot better to me when the pressure is on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Delhomme reminds me of what it would be like if Bill Bates played QB. Brees reminds me of what it would be like if a quarterback played QB. I'm way more likely to draft Delhomme but from what I've seen of the two players Brees is significantly better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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