Someone Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 I've noticed that the Huddle has him ranked #56 among WRs. They project him to finish with 630 yards and 3 TDs. Isn't that a little low for a guy who is expected to be Mike Martz's #1 WR? I realize that Johnson has average talent and that the 49ers' QB situation is pretty bad, but it is gonna be a pass-happy offense... Does this guy have a snowball's chance to get close to 1000 yds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Does this guy have a snowball's chance to get close to 1000 yds? Mike Furrey put up 1000 yards in that offense. Anything is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Let's remember two characterisitics at play here - 1.) the 49ers offense has never passed worth anything since Garcia left. There is an openm competition between Alex Smith and Shaun Hill which means at the end, the QB is going to be either Smith or Hill. Smith will win and after three years, he only has 19 career TDs. He struggled in the simplified offense last year before getting injured and now he has perhaps the most complicated one to learn. Not to mention that Martz QBs always lead the league in sacks and get beaten up. 2.) Martz has a system that spreads the ball around. Johnson would be better served being the #2 in an offense that was only going to throw to the two starters. Martz, if he can, will want to spread it around and at least at first I would expect Isaac Bruce to be the primary receiver if only because he does already know the offense. Add in Bryant Johnson never could rise above being a slot receiver in ARZ and I just would not be high on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpholmes Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 (edited) Add in Bryant Johnson never could rise above being a slot receiver in ARZ and I just would not be high on him. In all fairness, the competition is a little rough in Arizona at the WR position... Edited July 7, 2008 by kpholmes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Add in Bryant Johnson never could rise above being a slot receiver in ARZ and I just would not be high on him. This whole situation reminds me of what happened with Kevin Curtis. The guy is stuck behind 2 stud WRs. When one of the two is injured, he fills in with outstanding numbers. He then goes as a FA to an offense that ought to be prolific in the passing game and has little real competition for the #1 WR spot. In fact, the situations are eerily similar. I expect Johnson to put up similar numbers to what Curtis did last year. He's proven that he can play at a high level in the NFL - albeit in a limited basis - he's had a chance to learn from outstanding WRs who surrounded him previously, and he ought to be Mad Mikey's #1 WR (Bruce is well past his prime and appears to me to be capable of only complementary work at this point in his career). I think you're looking at a very solid #2 FF WR here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 This whole situation reminds me of what happened with Kevin Curtis. The guy is stuck behind 2 stud WRs. When one of the two is injured, he fills in with outstanding numbers. He then goes as a FA to an offense that ought to be prolific in the passing game and has little real competition for the #1 WR spot. In fact, the situations are eerily similar. I expect Johnson to put up similar numbers to what Curtis did last year. He's proven that he can play at a high level in the NFL - albeit in a limited basis - he's had a chance to learn from outstanding WRs who surrounded him previously, and he ought to be Mad Mikey's #1 WR (Bruce is well past his prime and appears to me to be capable of only complementary work at this point in his career). I think you're looking at a very solid #2 FF WR here. First off, Kevin Curtis plays with exponentially better QBs than you will find in SF. And even though Curtis does play with better, he still only scored in 4 games and other than his three decent games last year, he only averaged four catches for 50 yards in his other THIRTEEN games. That's a #2 WR? Over 3 of 4 games ends up 50 yards and no score? Sounds like an average tight end to me. Bryant wasn't so much stuck behind two other WRs, he just wasn't nearly as good as either of them. He was drafted BEFORE Boldin in 2003 and was a dog when the Cards needed him most. He has nine touchdowns in his five year career. By pretty much all accounts, he is the classic first round bust. He has started 39 games in his career thanks to Boldin and Fitzgeral injuries. In an offense that loved to throw and could as long as it was going to Boldin or Fitzgerald and not Johnson. 60 games played, 39 games started and ZERO games with 100 yards. None. Not so much as one lucky pass breaking free to get him good yardage. His personal best was 87 yards. At least Curtis had some decent games in relief in STL. And he sucks 13 out of 16 times. 60 games played, 39 games started and ZERO games with more than one TD. He only has nine games with just one score in an offense that made Boldin and Fitzgerald stars. But not Johnson because he is a first round bust. You can have him as a #2 WR which suggests he should be ranked #24 or less but that seems wildly optimistic to me. He goes to a more complicated scheme with no QB and much less offense surrounding him. This is not the equation for success. His only positive in SF is they may not realize that he is a first round bust. He is Mike Williams two years earlier. He is David Terrell two years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 First off, Kevin Curtis plays with exponentially better QBs than you will find in SF. I think you'd find opinions of Kurt Warner pretty low prior to the injury to Trent Green. Not saying that one of the SF QBs will turn into a studly QB, but Martz has done pretty well in the past getting good passing numbers out of unheralded QBs. He's got a 3 way race going now in SF with the best of the bunch being the one who starts - Alex Smith is not locked in as the #1 QB by any means. And even though Curtis does play with better, he still only scored in 4 games and other than his three decent games last year, he only averaged four catches for 50 yards in his other THIRTEEN games. That's a #2 WR? Over 3 of 4 games ends up 50 yards and no score? Sounds like an average tight end to me. You can cherry pick numbers all you want, but the fact is that he was at or near the 20th best FF WR in many leagues last year. Unless you play in an 8 team league, that stacks up to a #2 FF WR. WRs can be wildly inconsistent, but the fact is that if you turn his hugh 11 catch/221 yd/3 TD day into a more normal 6 catch/120 yds/1 TD day he'd still have finished in or near the top 25. That he did that in his first year with a new team - where many WRs tend to struggle as they get their wings under them in a new O - only bodes well for him in the future, IMO. Bryant wasn't so much stuck behind two other WRs, he just wasn't nearly as good as either of them. He was drafted BEFORE Boldin in 2003 and was a dog when the Cards needed him most. He has nine touchdowns in his five year career. By pretty much all accounts, he is the classic first round bust. He has started 39 games in his career thanks to Boldin and Fitzgeral injuries. In an offense that loved to throw and could as long as it was going to Boldin or Fitzgerald and not Johnson. Not being as good as Fitzgerald & Boldin is something probably 95% of the WRs in the league can say. I will concede that Johnson did not produce as well filling in for Boldin or Fitzpatrick as Curtis did filling in for Holt and Bruce. But to call Johnson a bust because he couldn't put Boldin or Fitzgerald on the bench seems a bit of a stretch to me. You can have him as a #2 WR which suggests he should be ranked #24 or less but that seems wildly optimistic to me. He goes to a more complicated scheme with no QB and much less offense surrounding him. This is not the equation for success. His only positive in SF is they may not realize that he is a first round bust. He is Mike Williams two years earlier. He is David Terrell two years later. Perhaps, but I like his opportunity. The competition (or lack of it), the O being run, the success of Martz to put up hugh numbers - even to guys like Furrey & McDonald in DET, and that he did get to work on his game with 2 studly WRs for 4 years gives him a shot of finally breaking out, IMO. While he ought to be drafted as a WR4 or at best a late WR3, he stands a decent chance of outperforming his draft position unless he is a complete turd like Terrell. I'll believe that when I have a better book on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belushi Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 I think Johnson's a good WR4 with allot of upside this year. I wouldn't want to count on him every week, but he should be a good bye-week WR, with potential to become an every week fantasy starter. I stashed him away in a dynasty league after someone mentioned that it was his contract year and he'd probably become a starter somewhere this season. I should try to find that info. for this year's auctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 BTW - Johnson's current ADP is WR50, and lower than that if you check drafts held within the past week. That's a good risk/reward ratio in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Perhaps, but I like his opportunity. The competition (or lack of it), the O being run, the success of Martz to put up hugh numbers - even to guys like Furrey & McDonald in DET, and that he did get to work on his game with 2 studly WRs for 4 years gives him a shot of finally breaking out, IMO. While he ought to be drafted as a WR4 or at best a late WR3, he stands a decent chance of outperforming his draft position unless he is a complete turd like Terrell. I'll believe that when I have a better book on him. You better hurry to get a better look at him since he has been in the league for five years already and may not be around much longer Furrey and McDonald are further examples of the problem that BJ will find in SF - the scheme focuses on #3 and #4 WR almost as much as the #1 and #2 WR. BJ would be in a better spot, I strongly contend, had he gone to a team that only used 2 WR instead of 4 WR. Martz has a chance to prove his genius though. He has never, ever had such a sad group of players to use in an offense ever before. It's like having the director of the Philharmonic Symphony step down to a Junior High band. Sure the sheet music all says the same thing but it just doesn't perform nearly as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 The WR you guys should be talking about in SF is Jason Hill. Certainly not Bryant Johnson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepinmofo Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 The WR you guys should be talking about in SF is Jason Hill Arnaz Battle. Certainly not Bryant Johnson. Fixed. You can thank me at the end of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 You better hurry to get a better look at him since he has been in the league for five years already and may not be around much longer Furrey and McDonald are further examples of the problem that BJ will find in SF - the scheme focuses on #3 and #4 WR almost as much as the #1 and #2 WR. BJ would be in a better spot, I strongly contend, had he gone to a team that only used 2 WR instead of 4 WR. Martz has a chance to prove his genius though. He has never, ever had such a sad group of players to use in an offense ever before. It's like having the director of the Philharmonic Symphony step down to a Junior High band. Sure the sheet music all says the same thing but it just doesn't perform nearly as well. This ought to be fun to revisit later in the year. I should know better than to argue with you, but I can't help myself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Fixed. You can thank me at the end of the season. Well he's a given. And will most likely end up with the most receptions out of the bunch. But Hill is the future baby!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Someone Posted July 7, 2008 Author Share Posted July 7, 2008 BTW - Johnson's current ADP is WR50, and lower than that if you check drafts held within the past week. That's a good risk/reward ratio in my opinion. That's my thoughts exactly. Draft him as your WR4 or WR5 and I think that you'll be pleasantly surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 (edited) From the radio interviews and news articles out of the Bay Area it appears that A. Smith will be the starting QB in SF. Martz has mentioned many times that A Smith has the strongest arm of out of the current QBs in SF and is one of the smartest QBs that he has ever worked with. My impression is that we will see a career year out of A Smith...now dont get your panties all up in a bunch. A career year for A. Smith will be probably be 20 TDs and 3,200 yards. I expect that Gore and V. Davis will see more passes this year than ever before because they are the elite athletes and play makers on this team. Its looking brighter in SF, but not bright. Edited July 7, 2008 by Pancake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 That's my thoughts exactly. Draft him as your WR4 or WR5 and I think that you'll be pleasantly surprised. Trouble is, I guarantee a lot of people are going to be thinking his value is higher, so good luck getting him as your fourth or fifth WR. Also, there are a ton of other "upside" WRs that can be had as your fourth or fifth WR that you don't have to reach for. Sorry, I'm not buyin' it. I'd rather have Ike Bruce at the end of the draft than reach for Johnson and just hope that he is able to perform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Because he is going to play in a Mike Martz offense and because people forget he has already been a failed starter, he will be drafted too early in most every league. The same can be said for Alex Smith, Vernon Davis and maybe Isaac Bruce though few have any "upside" expectations for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 From the radio interviews and news articles out of the Bay Area it appears that A. Smith will be the starting QB in SF. Martz has mentioned many times that A Smith has the strongest arm of out of the current QBs in SF and is one of the smartest QBs that he has ever worked with. My impression is that we will see a career year out of A Smith...now dont get your panties all up in a bunch. A career year for A. Smith will be probably be 20 TDs and 3,200 yards. I expect that Gore and V. Davis will see more passes this year than ever before because they are the elite athletes and play makers on this team. Its looking brighter in SF, but not bright. As a dynasty owner, I'm crossing my fingers on Vernon taking off. I read a blurb a while back where Martz was raving about Vernon Davis and that he had him studying film on WR routes instead of typical TE routes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bachi Boy Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Shhhh....don't wake my sleeper. As a dynasty owner, I'm crossing my fingers on Vernon taking off. OK, I guess it's hard to call the former #6 overall pick a sleeper, but you get the jist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locness_Monster Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 if this is worth anything to this discussion... one of my high school teammates who I still keep in touch with is a DB for the Cardinals. He told me that Bryant Johnson is the best ATHLETE they had at WR, but not the best WR (obviously). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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