Bronco Billy Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 The Associated Press reports St. Louis Rams RB Steven Jackson missed his 16th workout and the 12th day of training camp Tuesday, Aug. 5. A player must be in camp within 30 days of the start of the season or they lose an accrued season of experience and eligibility for free agency, according to NFL rules. The deadline for Jackson was Tuesday. That was a quote from KFFL. The first sentence is true. The second and third sentences are editorial comment based upon fairytales and a complete lack of knowledge of the CBA. A player must play in 6 regular season games if healthy to receive credit for 1 year accumulated towards experience for purposes of determining free agency among other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Even though the player may be a “free agent,” the CBA does not allow him to sign with another club in a capped year unless he has accumulated at least four Accrued Seasons in which he has been in “full pay status” for six or more regular season games. Even then, he may be restricted if he is designated a Franchise or Transition Player. Link to NFLPA page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Cheezhead Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Even though the player may be a “free agent,” the CBA does not allow him to sign with another club in a capped year unless he has accumulated at least four Accrued Seasons in which he has been in “full pay status” for six or more regular season games. Even then, he may be restricted if he is designated a Franchise or Transition Player. Link to NFLPA page That's as clear as I've seen it explained...but Jackson already has accumulated "four Accrued Seasons" in "full pay status" (2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007). However, there's a difference between an "accrued season" and a "credited season." Mike Florio of ProFootballTalk.com has done a pretty terrible job of explaining that difference, but Jim Thomas -- Rams beat writer -- explains it pretty well in a Q&A with his readers: Jim, There seems to be a conflict between your reporting on Steven Jackson's free agency eligibility and that of Mike Florio of profootballtalk.com. Florio is reporting (in this post: http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/08/05/...kson/#comments) that Jackson merely needs to show up by week 10 in order to get credit for this year and become an unrestricted free agent in 2009. Please clarify, as we would all like to know where both parties have leverage in the ongoing stalemate. Thanks. Jim Thomas: There is no conflict. What I'm talking about is credit for an "accrued" season (which disappears today). What Florio is talking about is credit for a "credited" season, which doesn't disappear until Week 10. If Jackson merely shows up by Week 10, he will get credit for playing in 2008 in terms of playing out the last year of his contract. If that happens, his current contract indeed will be expired, and he will in fact be a free agent. But I guarantee you, the Rams will franchise him after this season under that scenario. But since Jackson has not reported today _ he's already missed the day's only practice _ this season will not count towards his seniority in terms of free agency. In other words, even if he shows up Wednesday _ much less by Week 10 _ he will still have only four years of seniority according the NFL. Not five. And after he gets franchised for '09, he will still have only five years of seniority after the '09 season. And if the owners opt out of the final year of the current CBA, that would make him a restricted free agent entering the 2010 offseason. (Because under that scenario, players would not be eligible for free agency until they have 6 "accrued" seasons in the league.)This would be a disaster scenario for Jackson. This is a guy who wants guaranteed money, and a long-term deal. Under the scenario spelled out above, the Rams could string him out for three years without the money and long-term security he wants _ all because he hasn't reported by today. Will all this happen this way? Probably not. But Jackson has at least opened the door to that possibility by his continued absence. Basically, the looming opt-out of the CBA changes the rules a bit. If the owners do NOT opt out of the CBA -- not likely -- then I understand Jackson would still become a free agent after 2008 (and would probably get the franchise tag), and he'd certainly be a free agent again after 2009. However, if the owners DO opt out of the CBA, the big difference here would be that no player who's got fewer than SIX "accrued" seasons can be a free agent at all. So, after being franchised for the 2009 season (assuming he'd play under the FT tender), Jackson would still have only five accrued seasons...which means the best he could hope for after the '09 season would be restricted free agency entering 2010. That means he'd get his first crack at real free agency after the 2010 season at the ripe old age of 28. I think what all of this means is that Jackson REALLY wants to stay in St. Louis, and he believes strongly that a long-term deal will get done with the Rams soon. Otherwise, his decisions are just not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 In UFF-DA, I have the possibility of keeping him as one of three keepers from last year's roster. I have to declare keepers by the 15th. This is making me really nervous. I was banking on Jackson last season, and he was mostly a disappointment. But I was thinking it would all be fine now that he is healthy for this year. So much for that I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 That looks about right. Do you play in a PPR? I'd probably put Westbrook up there somewhere. I play in both. My approach to drafting a team is to always avoid risk and for me Westy is a risky play. I know you're not supposed to try and 'predict' injury but I have bad feelings about Westy this year and I always seem to get these things right (avoiding Alexander, LJ etc the years they failed). Not only has Westy been good for about the max # of years (IMO, most RBs are good for about 4-5 years), he has a brutal scheduled - again, just too much risk for my liking. I will let someone else draft him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Steven Jackson is being over rated IMO. Much safer draft picks are LT, AD (both generally picked ahead), Westbrook, Addai (Both generally picked after). I wouldn't take him until at least 5th, and I am not sure I would take him over Gore, Portis or Barber. He just hasn't done enough to justify a #3 ranking, nor is STL a very safe bet for having a sound offense until the line issues are settled. Something you won't know until week 1 at the earliest. That's too much gamble with the #3 pick for me. He had one great year. I am planning on letting other folks take the gamble on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Cheezhead Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Steven Jackson is being over rated IMO. Much safer draft picks are LT, AD (both generally picked ahead), Westbrook, Addai (Both generally picked after). I wouldn't take him until at least 5th, and I am not sure I would take him over Gore, Portis or Barber. AD, Westbrook are "safe"? I think you'll find plenty of disagreement there. Addai is the "safest" after LT, but not the others (and especially not Gore, Portis, or Barber). He just hasn't done enough to justify a #3 ranking, nor is STL a very safe bet for having a sound offense until the line issues are settled. Something you won't know until week 1 at the earliest. The offensive line is the same or better this year as it was the year he had more than 2,000 all-purpose yards. And check out the RBs in previous Al Saunders offenses. Assuming he gets to camp soon, he's even with or ahead all of the other RBs after LT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 AD, Westbrook are "safe"? I think you'll find plenty of disagreement there. Addai is the "safest" after LT, but not the others (and especially not Gore, Portis, or Barber). The offensive line is the same or better this year as it was the year he had more than 2,000 all-purpose yards. And check out the RBs in previous Al Saunders offenses. Assuming he gets to camp soon, he's even with or ahead all of the other RBs after LT. Er.... Westbrook was the #2ish RB last year (1 game missed), the number 4ish (1 game missed) in 2006, the number 12ish in 2005 when he got injured late season (3 games missed), and the #7ish RB (1 game missed) in 2004. I'd say that's safe. AD Missed 2 games last year. But I didn't call him "safe", I called him safer than Sjax. He's in a much better situation to be productive, and showed what he could do last year with a bad QB situation. As far as Gore, Portis, and Barber, I put him in their tier. Again, not sure if I would take him over them. Not saying I wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 I don't think SJax is that much of a risky play...as Brent said, Westy is a much more riskier play than SJax at this point in their careers... SJax plays in a poor defensive division, that's 6 games that favor his matchups and regardless of how bad the OL is, he can be an absolute monster in the passing game and he won't share nearly as much as Westy will.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 I go like this: 1. Tomkinson 2. Peterson 3. Jackson 4. Addai 5. Westbrook My crystal ball says both Addai and Westbrook will have tougher rushing EOS than Jackson simply because of their respective divisions. Everything I've read has indicated that on top of better health and improved offensive lineplay Jackson should see an improvement because of Al Saunder's offensive scheme. I don't know about the Saunders thing other than having read that in multiple places. So you put all that together with the fact that I happen to think Jackson is better than Addai and Westbrook and I'll leave him at three for now. I think it is kind of silly argue #3 vs #5 that's probably a matter of preference. Now if you want to put Jackson behind Lynch, Portis, Gore, Barber and so on, I think you are probably making a mistake. Unless the holdout continues past this week, I can't see ranking him lower than 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 I go like this: 1. Tomkinson 2. Peterson 3. Jackson 4. Addai 5. Westbrook My crystal ball says both Addai and Westbrook will have tougher rushing EOS than Jackson simply because of their respective divisions. Everything I've read has indicated that on top of better health and improved offensive lineplay Jackson should see an improvement because of Al Saunder's offensive scheme. I don't know about the Saunders thing other than having read that in multiple places. So you put all that together with the fact that I happen to think Jackson is better than Addai and Westbrook and I'll leave him at three for now. I think it is kind of silly argue #3 vs #5 that's probably a matter of preference. Now if you want to put Jackson behind Lynch, Portis, Gore, Barber and so on, I think you are probably making a mistake. Unless the holdout continues past this week, I can't see ranking him lower than 5. Who does Tomkinson play for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Agent Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Who does Tomkinson play for? The Charkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 The Charkers. I don't know why, but I found this really amusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorttynaz Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 This is all very interesting.. I am in this exact spot as well. Everything about me wants to take Jackson. I know Westy is a beast, however I think he will be splitting more carries this year, and I have a bad feeling about his health this year. The safest bet here is Addai. However with the return of Rhodes, Addai will be losing some goalline carries. Safe bet - Addai High Risk/Reward - Westbrook Biggest ??? - Jackson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 I put it like this... LT AD SJax Westy Gore Addai Portis Barber Lynch Grant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 I put it like this... LT AD SJax Westy Gore Addai Portis Barber Lynch Grant What don't you like about Addai? I'm surprised you have him behind more riskier players like SJax, Westy and Gore. As a sidenote, I am seriously considering putting Maroney into my top 5 or at least top 7. He has a relatively easy schedule and I think he is seriously undervalued this year. No way Brady throws anywhere near 50 again this year. My bet is that in being one step ahead of the competition, Belichick runs more this year, especially inside the 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 What don't you like about Addai? I'm surprised you have him behind more riskier players like SJax, Westy and Gore. As a sidenote, I am seriously considering putting Maroney into my top 5 or at least top 7. He has a relatively easy schedule and I think he is seriously undervalued this year. No way Brady throws anywhere near 50 again this year. My bet is that in being one step ahead of the competition, Belichick runs more this year, especially inside the 10. My big issue with Maroney is that he's sharing time with Kevin Faulk, Sammy Morris, and Lamont Jordan. BB loves to mix player groups up to run packages, and I am nto sure you can depend on Maroney being on the field consistently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 What don't you like about Addai? I'm surprised you have him behind more riskier players like SJax, Westy and Gore. As a sidenote, I am seriously considering putting Maroney into my top 5 or at least top 7. He has a relatively easy schedule and I think he is seriously undervalued this year. No way Brady throws anywhere near 50 again this year. My bet is that in being one step ahead of the competition, Belichick runs more this year, especially inside the 10. I see more sharing with Addai and I'm becoming less sold on the Colts offense this year... I think Gore will be a beast and Westy will still put up numbers regardless of how often he touches the ball...the addition of Booker will only open things up for Westy even more....even though I wouldn't want to draft Westy, he's still a monster when healthy... and I don't see SJax as a risky play....he's far too much of a stud to pass up at that spot... and Maroney makes me want to vomit....I think Jordan could very well be the RB to have in this offense...mostly because he's a NE RB and he can be had several rounds later... last year I put Addai around 3rd or 4th, but I think Gore and Westy have that spot ahead of him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 I see more sharing with Addai and I'm becoming less sold on the Colts offense this year... I think Gore will be a beast and Westy will still put up numbers regardless of how often he touches the ball...the addition of Booker will only open things up for Westy even more....even though I wouldn't want to draft Westy, he's still a monster when healthy... and I don't see SJax as a risky play....he's far too much of a stud to pass up at that spot... and Maroney makes me want to vomit....I think Jordan could very well be the RB to have in this offense...mostly because he's a NE RB and he can be had several rounds later... last year I put Addai around 3rd or 4th, but I think Gore and Westy have that spot ahead of him... I agree on Gore, I am very high on him this year. I think Sjax is only a risk now because of his holdout - once he signs, I will feel more comfortable. Westy, as I mentioned earlier is way too risky for me this season. His schedule is very tough and McNabb has no WRs this year (Curtis can only provide so much). That means, defenses will definitely be keying on him. Plus, I do think he is one good hit away from having an injury since he teeters on that yearly. I have good intuition on these things and my gut says avoid Westy, but that's just me. I agree that BB does mix things up a lot, which can contribute to his perenial success but I don't think he will do that with Maroney this year. When healthy, Maroney is a beast. I think Jordan is purely a backup - I mean he couldn't earn the starting spot in OAK last year, I think his best years are behind him. I always respect your points-of-view Avernus but I think you have this one wrong. In adding to BB mixing it up, my speculation is that unlike last season where he was an aerial commander, I believe he will be one step ahead of everyone else and purposely run the rock this year. There will be plenty of passing no doubt but there will be much more pounding. Remember that Maroney was injured to start the season last year, so some of the heavy passing was probably because they had no RB. This year is different though. Addai - the safest pick in the draft (IMO) without the expolsion of LT or ADP - this is why he is my #3. Good discussion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Interesting. I'll take Gore if I can get him cheap, but I'm not bidding much on him at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 I agree on Gore, I am very high on him this year. I think Sjax is only a risk now because of his holdout - once he signs, I will feel more comfortable. Westy, as I mentioned earlier is way too risky for me this season. His schedule is very tough and McNabb has no WRs this year (Curtis can only provide so much). That means, defenses will definitely be keying on him. Plus, I do think he is one good hit away from having an injury since he teeters on that yearly. I have good intuition on these things and my gut says avoid Westy, but that's just me. I agree that BB does mix things up a lot, which can contribute to his perenial success but I don't think he will do that with Maroney this year. When healthy, Maroney is a beast. I think Jordan is purely a backup - I mean he couldn't earn the starting spot in OAK last year, I think his best years are behind him. I always respect your points-of-view Avernus but I think you have this one wrong. In adding to BB mixing it up, my speculation is that unlike last season where he was an aerial commander, I believe he will be one step ahead of everyone else and purposely run the rock this year. There will be plenty of passing no doubt but there will be much more pounding. Remember that Maroney was injured to start the season last year, so some of the heavy passing was probably because they had no RB. This year is different though. Addai - the safest pick in the draft (IMO) without the expolsion of LT or ADP - this is why he is my #3. Good discussion I think SJax will play opening day and just doesn't want to subject himself to pre-season BS... the Eagles will run a 2 RB set with both Booker and Westbrook.....and Booker has been beyond impressive in the passing game...and the Eagles passing game has a balance of average WR's and a strong OL....my gut says avoid Westy as well, but I still have him ahead of Addai and Gore... and I am not that high on Jordan, even though he doesn't have many miles under his belt....playing for a winner can do a lot for a players confidence and motivation.....he's excellent in the passing game and when the season is wrapped up, I think Jordan will have the best numbers out of the NE backfield.....even if that means he has 1 more TD and 50 yds more than Maroney....I hate this backfield altogether... as for Addai...he didn't really impress me last year when he had a serious shot...and I wonder if he can really handle 16 games... I'm not even high on any of the RB's after Addai, except for MJD and a few other sleeper-types...and I usually agree with you, as you've said vice verses......but that NE backfield is a complete mess and you are saying the same thing I said last year about Maroney, but he did absolutely nothing for me last year and the only Patriot players I'd target are Brady, Moss and Welker.....and maybe Jordan at an exceptional value... I'm not so high on Westy as I am down on Addai, even if it's just a little.....and Gore is the player who climbed up my chart because of Martz and his ability to utilize RB's who catch well out the backfield.... good stuff, none-the-less... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Interesting. I'll take Gore if I can get him cheap, but I'm not bidding much on him at all. every couple of years RB's in general get watered down in value and that's usually the year where you see a couple of players come out the woodworks....and that will be this year.... but right now, things look messy immediately outside the top 10.....or even before the top 10 because I'm becoming less and less sold on Grant and Lynch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 I think SJax will play opening day and just doesn't want to subject himself to pre-season BS... the Eagles will run a 2 RB set with both Booker and Westbrook.....and Booker has been beyond impressive in the passing game...and the Eagles passing game has a balance of average WR's and a strong OL....my gut says avoid Westy as well, but I still have him ahead of Addai and Gore... and I am not that high on Jordan, even though he doesn't have many miles under his belt....playing for a winner can do a lot for a players confidence and motivation.....he's excellent in the passing game and when the season is wrapped up, I think Jordan will have the best numbers out of the NE backfield.....even if that means he has 1 more TD and 50 yds more than Maroney....I hate this backfield altogether... as for Addai...he didn't really impress me last year when he had a serious shot...and I wonder if he can really handle 16 games... I'm not even high on any of the RB's after Addai, except for MJD and a few other sleeper-types...and I usually agree with you, as you've said vice verses......but that NE backfield is a complete mess and you are saying the same thing I said last year about Maroney, but he did absolutely nothing for me last year and the only Patriot players I'd target are Brady, Moss and Welker.....and maybe Jordan at an exceptional value... I'm not so high on Westy as I am down on Addai, even if it's just a little.....and Gore is the player who climbed up my chart because of Martz and his ability to utilize RB's who catch well out the backfield.... good stuff, none-the-less... I think we're generally on the same page with some minor differences. As I said earlier - I'm really high on Gore this year, and like you mentioned it's because of the Martz factor. Plus they have no WRs so he should get a lot of touches based on that alone AND I like his youth (which always prevails for me when comparing players of similar value). I remember seeing an interview with Portis on nfl network - Miami U had Portis, McGahee and Gore all at the same time and Portis confessed that Gore had the most talent out of the bunch (including himself). 2 knee surgeries later, Gore has proven to be quite the RB in the NFL, I can only imagine what he'd be doing minus the knee injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 every couple of years RB's in general get watered down in value and that's usually the year where you see a couple of players come out the woodworks....and that will be this year.... but right now, things look messy immediately outside the top 10.....or even before the top 10 because I'm becoming less and less sold on Grant and Lynch... Very good point. I think that happens with Maroney this year as well Lynch scares me because of two reasons: Hit and run incident this summer & Dick Juron's lack of an offensive mindset. Grant scares me slightly less. Especially since his new contract is so incentive laden, I have more confidence in him than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Very good point. I think that happens with Maroney this year as well Lynch scares me because of two reasons: Hit and run incident this summer & Dick Juron's lack of an offensive mindset. Grant scares me slightly less. Especially since his new contract is so incentive laden, I have more confidence in him than others. I agree with the Grant point....I had Lynch last year and he's very mediocre due to being on a weak team.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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