Hochuli does it again

[Kansas State 2000]

Carolina gets a interception return for a TD called back on a Carolina roughing the passer call by Hochuli.. No way was that a foul, terrible call again. BTW, i do not have the Carolina defense this week. LOL!

Edited September 28, 2008 by Kansas State 2000

[WaterMan]

Looked like roughing the passer at least. Helmet to helmet was questionable.

[WaterMan]

There's all ready 4 penalties.

[Kansas State 2000]

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- Referee Ed Hochuli was at the center of another questionable call Sunday, flagging Julius Peppers for a roughing-the-passer penalty that wiped out Carolina's interception return for a touchdown in the first quarter against Atlanta.

 

After Matt Ryan's pass was intercepted by Richard Marshall, Hochuli threw a flag and announced Peppers made a helmet-to-helmet hit on Ryan. It erased the touchdown and gave the Falcons a first down on a drive that ended with a punt.

 

Replays showed Peppers made contact as Ryan released the ball, and appeared to hit him first with his shoulder.

 

"Ed came over and explained to me, he said that I hit him with my helmet," Peppers said. "He said I hit him with my helmet in his head and that's what he called. It wasn't really roughing, late hit. It was just my helmet hit his helmet, so it was just one of those calls that, you know, player safety is what that was about.

 

"I'm not trying to hit him with my helmet. I'm not trying to hurt him, but you know, it's football so I'm going for the tackle so helmets are going to get hit sometimes."

 

Fans booed loudly when the play was shown on the video boards at Bank of America Stadium, and Carolina coach John Fox said after the game that was the only footage he'd seen of the play.

 

"I can't comment, No. 1. But No. 2, I didn't really see it," Fox said. "I saw the replay, and I wasn't real fond of it then."

 

Two weeks ago, Hochuli's missed call helped Denver's comeback 39-38 win over San Diego.

 

Denver quarterback Jay Cutler dropped back to pass, the ball slipped from his hand and a San Diego player recovered. But Hochuli, who has refereed two Super Bowls, ruled it an incomplete pass. He later admitted it was the wrong call.

 

Denver retained possession, scored a touchdown and then won with a successful 2-point conversion.

Edited September 28, 2008 by Kansas State 2000

[PSULions]

I was at the game and couldn't believe it when Peppers got flagged for that hit. Looked like he barely hit him and certainly had no malice. Didn't see the replay as they didn't show it on the video screen, but the fans went nuts when they made called the penalty. Once I knew it was Hochuli, I figured he blew the call, so I wasn't surprised. The Panthers played well, so it the big scheme of things it really didn't matter.

[neilfish2]

This dude has got to go....

 

Any links, I would like to see the hit...

[The Vatican Hitsquad]

Weak.

 

How many times has another ref made a similar call? Any ref is going to call something that is close to a QB, and Hochuli is only being singled out because of that one call that may have given Denver the ball back, but it was SDs Defense that lost the game ultimately.

 

I lived through the tuck, you guys will live through this.

[PSULions]

This dude has got to go....

 

Any links, I would like to see the hit...

 

I saw it on the replay screen, but I don't think it will be on any of the video highlights. The explanation on the newspaper today was the Peppers hit him with the shoulder first and their helmets did make contact during the play, but there was no intent from Peppers to spear him with the helmet and the call IMO was quite lame. Peppers talked to Ed about it, but at that point he had made the call. The crew even flagged the Panthers for another 5 yard flag on a knee down play with 15 seconds left on the clock and the crowd was like.... "What...?" It was a bad crew and it looks like Hochuli has been living on his former rep and seems like he is more interested in the tight shirt he wears and showing off his guns than paying attention at the plays he is watching during the game. Fortunately, the outcome of this lame call didn't effect the outcome of the Panthers / Falcons game, but he got plenty of jeers throughout the afternoon.

[neilfish2]

Must be Riod Rage....

[millerx]

This dude has got to go....

 

Any links, I would like to see the hit...

Shouldn't you ask for the link, see the hit...and THEN make a call on whether or not he has got to go??

[LooGie]

This dude has got to go....

 

Any links, I would like to see the hit...

 

 

Shouldn't you ask for the link, see the hit...and THEN make a call on whether or not he has got to go??

 

totally agree here. and Hochuli has done an outstanding job for years and years. I say relax. Nobody would even be saying "oh man Hochuli messed up" if it wasn't for the SD/DEN debacle. They'd be saying "refs did it again" or "zebras changing games" whatever.

 

Hochuli has a body of work that is outstanding and a pinnacle of all things all refs everywhere should strive for. He even manned up when he f'd the call, and still stuck to the text book. I would lose respect for him if he wobbled and changed the play. The fact is, if you blow a whistle, the play is over. He f'd up, manned up, and moved on. Then this call was just a run of the mill, everyday helmet to helmet questionable call. No biggie, it happens every game. Sure it was after a crucial play, but still, he can't pick and choose when to make a call.

 

Having said THAT, if he makes any more somewhat questionable calls, after crucial plays, then something is going on.

[gspot]

totally agree here. and Hochuli has done an outstanding job for years and years. I say relax. Nobody would even be saying "oh man Hochuli messed up" if it wasn't for the SD/DEN debacle. They'd be saying "refs did it again" or "zebras changing games" whatever.

 

Hochuli has a body of work that is outstanding and a pinnacle of all things all refs everywhere should strive for. He even manned up when he f'd the call, and still stuck to the text book. I would lose respect for him if he wobbled and changed the play. The fact is, if you blow a whistle, the play is over. He f'd up, manned up, and moved on. Then this call was just a run of the mill, everyday helmet to helmet questionable call. No biggie, it happens every game. Sure it was after a crucial play, but still, he can't pick and choose when to make a call.

 

Having said THAT, if he makes any more somewhat questionable calls, after crucial plays, then something is going on.

 

 

Simply put, what I can't understand is why the NFL or the officials don't mandate a "conservative approach". To me, it seems as though the officials are too "anxious" to make a call, as if they just let them play and were a bit more conservative, they would avoid making these errors. At the end of the day, these plays didn't even affect the outcome of the play, but end up affecting the game. By simply madating the officials be judicious in throwing their flags would alleviate the problem.

 

I think anyone who watches the game or has any football IQ, can clearly watch a play and see a foul that really does affect the outcome of a play!

[Balzac]

Seems like some people are missing the boat here - malice/intent doesn't even factor into the call that was made. A decision was made by the NFL to not allow helmet-to-helmet contact . . . Hochuli is merely enforcing the rule. It makes no difference that Peppers had no malice. The whole point of the rule is to force defensive players to make sure that they aren't hitting anybody in the head - malice or not. Period.

 

I saw the replay and could certainly see how Hochuli thought he saw h2h contact - I'm still not even sure that there was no contact . . . people are just piling on the guy because that's what people like to do. Apparently it's fun.

[LooGie]

Simply put, what I can't understand is why the NFL or the officials don't mandate a "conservative approach". To me, it seems as though the officials are too "anxious" to make a call, as if they just let them play and were a bit more conservative, they would avoid making these errors. At the end of the day, these plays didn't even affect the outcome of the play, but end up affecting the game. By simply madating the officials be judicious in throwing their flags would alleviate the problem.

 

I think anyone who watches the game or has any football IQ, can clearly watch a play and see a foul that really does affect the outcome of a play!

well, your idea, while good in nature, for the overall enjoyment of a game, isn't taking into consideration a few very important things.

 

1) The "outcome of the game" is not what majority of these calls are about. They're about players safety. Some calls like pass interference, or holding etc are enforced because of the possible outcome. The other calls are enforced to punish anyone for possibly harming another player, and to minimize future plays where a player could be needlessly hurt.

 

2) You can't really have a conservative approach on a helmet to helmet call man. He either hit it, or he didn't. If it looked like he did, real time, at the speed of football, then he hit it. There are no gray areas, and there should not be.

 

Now if you're talking about the sd/den non fumble call, and not the h2h call, then i suppose we can debate that, however the points still stand the same.

There are no gray areas and the rules state that once the whistle is called, on a dead ball play, the ball is in fact dead and the play is in fact over.

 

The reason for this is very simple: If a player hears the whistle and knows the play is over, he will stop fighting or running for the ball. It's over and whatever happened is the way it is. Well if one person didn't hear the whistle and keeps fighting for it, and gets the ball, he only did so because nobody else was fighting for it. If the call is then overturned, and that player is now awarded a fumble or a turnover in general, it is only because nobody else was fighting for the ball. If the play wasn't ruled over, then other players would continue to fight for the ball and the outcome could be drastically different.

 

Hochuli missed the call on the fumble. He ruled it an incomplete pass on the field and blew his whistle. That caused some players to stop fighting for the ball (possibly). If he had not blown his whistle the players would fought for it, and possibly DEN woulda ended up with fumble. Maybe SD only ended up with fumble because he blew his whistle. Since there's no way to know, the play has to beover, the ball is dead and he missed only one aspect of that entire call: the fumble. Everything past that was by the book. He took his beating for giving the game away, giving the fumble away etc etc. But really, all he did was miss a fumble. Maybe, just maybe SD doesn't end up with that fumble if he doesn't miss it.

[The Vatican Hitsquad]

Seems like some people are missing the boat here - malice/intent doesn't even factor into the call that was made. A decision was made by the NFL to not allow helmet-to-helmet contact . . . Hochuli is merely enforcing the rule. It makes no difference that Peppers had no malice. The whole point of the rule is to force defensive players to make sure that they aren't hitting anybody in the head - malice or not. Period.

 

I saw the replay and could certainly see how Hochuli thought he saw h2h contact - I'm still not even sure that there was no contact . . . people are just piling on the guy because that's what people like to do. Apparently it's fun.

 

Truth. Now you have the idiot press running headlines like "Hochuli involved in another controversial call", which inflames people to start threads like this one.

 

 

 

fHe took his beating for giving the game away, giving the fumble away etc etc. But really, all he did was miss a fumble. Maybe, just maybe SD doesn't end up with that fumble if he doesn't miss it.

And that's really the bottom line. . Bad call, sure. But the call didn't cost SD the game, it may have led to it but SD still had 3 chances to win that game, and they didn't.

[myhousekey]

Saints can point the fingers at themselves for last nights loss. Too many penalties, missed opportunities and poor ball handling will beat you 9x out of 10. But this poor officiating has got to go.

 

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/10/07/...-calls/#respond

 

HOCHULI’S CREW SCREWS UP A COUPLE MORE CALLS

Posted by Mike Florio on October 7, 2008, 9:37 a.m. EDT

Though we’re not sure that it matters because the Saints seemed determined to blow the Monday night game against the Vikings, referee Ed Hochuli and crew were caught in the middle of two more controversial calls.

 

Both of them, in our view, were wrong.

 

As to the first one, the officials made a clear error. In the second quarter, Vikings linebacker Chad Greenway did the “grabbed and pulled and hurt my neck in 1988″ thing with Reggie Bush’s facemask, which should have drawn an immediate penalty.

 

But no flags flew and Bush lost the ball was he was trying not to lose his head. Though Minnesota didn’t score any points on the ensuing drive, the right call would have given the Saints a first down inside the Vikings’ 20.

 

The second call wasn’t as obvious, but Hochuli got it wrong nevertheless.

 

With less than two minutes remaining in the half, Vikings running back Adrian Peterson appeared to fumble the ball. The Saints recovered, and put together a return that could have gone for six points, thanks to a lateral from Jon Vilma to Mike McKenzie.

 

But the return was blown dead because the ruling on the field was that Peterson’s knee hit the ground before he fumbled.

 

Replays showed Peterson losing the ball before being down. Hochuli emerged from the replay booth and explained that, although the ball was moving, it was still in Peterson’s hand. No fumble.

 

This Tuck Rule-style argument makes no sense. The ball is either coming out or it isn’t. In Hochuli’s mind, the ball was moving and it eventually would come loose, but in the moment that Peterson’s knee hit the ground, he had temporarily regained control, only to lose it an instant later.

 

Could it be that Hochuli felt compelled in the wake of the Week Two blunder in Denver to avoid the criticism that would have come from killing a play that could have resulted in a touchdown for the Saints? If Hochuli had concluded that Peterson had fumbled, the Saints would have gotten the ball at the spot Vilma recovered it, prompting the media and the fans to focus on the fact that, yet again, Hochuli’s crew got happy with the whistles and made a game-changing mistake.

 

By finding that it wasn’t a fumble in the first place, Hochuli avoided any such questions.

 

But we’re pretty sure that the Saints will be asking questions about both of these calls, and that we’ve got a feeling that we’ll only be seeing Hochuli in the postseason this year if he’s sitting in the stands.

[Bronco Billy]

Wow. How freakin' sad.

 

Hoculi is one of the better refs in the league and has made a couple of mistakes (at full speed on the spot, mind you), and so he becomes the target of a witch hunt. Everything he does in a game is going under a gigantic microscope.

 

The league may as well suspend his reffing privledges now, as the "blame someone else" gotcha mentality so prevalent today is going to render him ineffective and cause every team who loses in a game he refs to review every play in minutia to place blame on him instead of themselves.

 

The league will be worse off without him. What a damn shame we've turned into such a nation of pussies that it has perverted our sports now.

Edited October 7, 2008 by Bronco Billy

[Caveman_Nick]

 

1) Refs miss calls all the time. It's not "the wrong call" if the ref didn't see the facemask. The fact is that they can not see everything from every angle.

 

2) On the Peterson non fumble he still appeared to have control of the ball when his knee touched. The ref can't assume that he didn't.

 

Seriously. I agree with BB. Too much whining.

[Rebellab]

I had Reggie Bush, my opponent had AP, I lost by one point. Thanks Ed.

[Skippy]

Truley sad to see them going after Hochuli like this. He has got to be one of the best refs out there, IMHO.

[detlef]

Further, the face mask call isn't his to make. He's just the guy who's got the mic so he's the guy that everyone blames.

[Hugh 0ne]

Further, the Peterson fumble was waaaayyyyy to close to overturn.

[Cunning Runt]

Further, the Peterson fumble was waaaayyyyy to close to overturn.

 

Except didn't they rule it a fumble on the field and as such, overturned it? Maybe I missed something. Or did they say down by contact? 'Cause they kept playing and I never heard a whistle until the lateral and the guy stepped out.

[Hugh 0ne]

Except didn't they rule it a fumble on the field and as such, overturned it? Maybe I missed something. Or did they say down by contact? 'Cause they kept playing and I never heard a whistle until the lateral and the guy stepped out.

 

Down by contact was the ruling on the field.

[Caveman_Nick]

Except didn't they rule it a fumble on the field and as such, overturned it? Maybe I missed something. Or did they say down by contact? 'Cause they kept playing and I never heard a whistle until the lateral and the guy stepped out.

 

It sounded like the ruling was "down by contact" on the field.

 

From the plau by play on NFL.com...

 

3-1-NO 49 (1:16) 28-A.Peterson left guard to NO 44 for 5 yards (51-J.Vilma). The Replay Assistant challenged the fumble ruling, and the play was Upheld.