WaterMan Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Is it fair to say he's benefited for many years behind a great O line that many QBs don't have the luxury? But now that there is problems with said line, he's not all that flashy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Stanky Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 From what I've seen it appears to be more of a timing issue. I saw several throws yesterday, and in previous weeks, where he just missed his receiver. I also think that he's totally out of sync with Harrison. I see things getting better, but he might have his worst year since his rookie year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Did he not have a monster comeback yesterday? I know for certain that without a decent line the best QB in history will look like sheet but it seems to me that Manning did a great job of coming back yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Well, it is fair to say that pretty much any QB is going to have a tough time getting the job done without a good line. Seriously, I'm having a hell of a time thinking of even one who was money despite poor OL play. So, if that's your point... However, if your point is that any number of guys would have done as well as he did if they had a better line. Well, that's a stretch I'm not prepared to make. I think you have to take into account the degree to which he helps put his teammates in position to look good by being able to call plays from the line of scrimmage. His overall command of the game certainly puts him in an elite class and separates him from many who simply have the physical tools to execute. However, none of this matters if his line sucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrudge Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 It's a combination of all things, a qb, the o-line, WRs, and RB(s). Without any one of the supporting staff the greats could only become good, and without more then one they can only become mediocre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziachild007 Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Did he not have a monster comeback yesterday? I know for certain that without a decent line the best QB in history will look like sheet but it seems to me that Manning did a great job of coming back yesterday. I would say the comeback was more put on the defense than Peyton. Yeah he threw a TD and got them down the field, but the defense put them in good position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 I would say the comeback was more put on the defense than Peyton. Yeah he threw a TD and got them down the field, but the defense put them in good position. Yeah Houston's defense gave that up, but what happened to all the blow outs the Colts usually put up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tford Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 I think Zia is refering to the Colts D, not the Texans D. If Brackett doesn't return that fumble for a TD, I think we are looking at a 1-3 Colts team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrudge Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Yeah Houston's defense gave that up, but what happened to all the blow outs the Colts usually put up?The O-Line definitely hasn't been giving him the time he's been accustomed to in years past. Harrison is a year older. And of course Manning had the surgery. It all adds up. However, the Texans front office has also come out and stated point blank that they draft to try to beat the Colts. 3 of their 4 defensive linemen were drafted in the first round. It's no wonder that the games aren't blowouts that they once were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Michael Vick didn't need a good offensive line to score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kicktothehead Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 How much is attributed to his knee though? He seemed (not that he really ever moved well) like he was stuck in the mud. And if Sage slides the Colts are 1-3..... I actually traded him after week 3. I got good value for him and I just had a feeling that this was going to be an off year for him (meaning less than 30 td's) Since the trade I am 2-0 and have scored no less that 110pts each week......I started 1-2 and broke 100pts once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 (edited) Is it fair to say he's benefited for many years behind a great O line that many QBs don't have the luxury? But now that there is problems with said line, he's not all that flashy. A "great" offensive line? Only Jeff Saturday is a Pro Bowler, and he's only been to 3 Pro Bowls. Manning also had a knee injury that required surgery and cost him the entire pre-season, and the Colts have been playing without 3-4 starters on the offensive line for the first month of the season. Edited October 6, 2008 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 Manning also had a knee injury that required surgery and cost him the entire pre-season, and the Colts have been playing without 3-4 starters on the offensive line for the first month of the season. Exactly what I'm asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 A "great" offensive line? Only Jeff Saturday is a Pro Bowler, and he's only been to 3 Pro Bowls. Manning also had a knee injury that required surgery and cost him the entire pre-season, and the Colts have been playing without 3-4 starters on the offensive line for the first month of the season. c'mon, in years past, nobody would touch Manning. Dude would get sacked maybe twice per year. Maybe there weren't any pro-bowlers, but the squad was widely hailed as great. Now, it does seem as if Waterman is fishing and implying that Manning may be just an average QB who's been lucky enough to play behind a line that gave him tons of time. If that's the case, it's a lame argument. However, nobody can argue that, in years past, his line has helped give him every chance in the world to succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 (edited) c'mon, in years past, nobody would touch Manning. Dude would get sacked maybe twice per year. Maybe there weren't any pro-bowlers, but the squad was widely hailed as great. A lot of the reason the Colts don't give up a lot of sacks is because of Manning. He has a quick release, and a great clock in his head. The year before he arrived in Indy the offensive line was considered lousy and gave up a ton of sacks, but those were drastically reduced as soon as he took over. Another thing to look at is how Colts offensive linemen have fared after leaving Indy. Or what they were before. Lilja and Saturday were cast-offs from other teams. Rick DeMulling left for big money in Detroit and was terrible. Adam Meadows, Tupe Peko, Waverly Jackson, Brad Scuillo, all couldn't even catch on with other teams after leaving the Colts. And they were STARTERS. Another thing to remember, there are no first round picks on the Colts offensive line. IF everyone was healthy they would have two second rounders (Ugoh and Pollak), two undrafted FA (Saturday and Lilja), and a fourth rounder (Diem). But as it is, Charlie Johnson, a sixth rounder, is starting at LT. He should be a guard. And rookie seventh rounder Jamey Richard is starting at guard. Oh, and Waterman, please find me ONE QB that could lose 4 starting offensive linemen and still perform as well as Manning . . . . Edited October 6, 2008 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 (edited) And Manning is still on pace for 4,120 yards and 20 TD's. And that's facing the Bears, Jags, and Vikings defenses where he has completed 62.3% of his passes. . . AFTER KNEE SURGERY! Edited October 6, 2008 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 These two have similar stats. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4157 http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4256 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 (edited) These two have similar stats. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4157 http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4256 Manning has 300 yards more passing? Manning has completed 62.3% of his passes to Kitna's 56.7%? And is Kitna coming off knee surgery? Is his offensive line missing 4 starters? Yet Kitna has been sacked 15 times to Manning's 7 . . . oh yeah, the Colts are 2-2 thanks to Manning's heroics in the fourth quarters of two games they could have lost. Kitna's team is 0-4 thanks mainly to him . . . Edited October 6, 2008 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 Both have QB ratings in the 70's, 5 TDs/5 INTs, and you could argue that Manning has more yards since Kitna was benched. I never imagined Kitna would be tied with Manning for TDs in Week 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Both have QB ratings in the 70's, 5 TDs/5 INTs, and you could argue that Manning has more yards since Kitna was benched. I never imagined Kitna would be tied with Manning for TDs in Week 5. Why not? They've both had bye weeks, Manning is coming off knee surgery, no pre-season work at all, his offensive line is in shambles, both have first round picks at WR? Why is that so hard to imagine? You must not be very smart. Here another equally stupid question. Is Randy Moss only capable of putting up fantastic numbers when he has a Pro Bowl quarterback? Sure seems like he's not all that great without one . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 since Kitna was benched. . . . thus proving your comparison retarded . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 http://www.nfl.com/players/roddywhite/profile?id=WHI472686 http://www.nfl.com/players/randymoss/profile?id=MOS699912 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 You must not be very smart. That pretty much sums it up. Here another equally stupid question. Is Randy Moss only capable of putting up fantastic numbers when he has a Pro Bowl quarterback? Sure seems like he's not all that great without one . . . With Moss crapping his pants this season, perhaps WaterBoy will morph into a T.O. fan now. He fits into the same "stupid, douchebag, me-first, skill-position football player" mold as Moss and Vick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 What's Randy's excuse? His offensive line, running backs, and fellow wide receivers, as well as a very good defense all return in tact from his record breaking year. Why can't he outperform Roddy White who has a ROOKIE throwing to him? Matt Cassel has been in the Pats system for a while now . . . why isn't Randy putting up flashy numbers? HMMMMMM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 C'mon waterman, does ONE player make all the difference for Moss, but Manning missing FOUR starting offensive linemen doesn't? Where did you go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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