Chief Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 It's amazing how much animosity C-Pep generates on this site. I would think there would be some love for a guy who helped carry owners to championships in his glory days of 2000,2002,2003 and 2004. Bottom line is, he's an accomplished former pro bowler that is much better than most people on this site give him credit for. I personally feel like he still has some upside and 2 solid years if he can get into the right system. I'm sure his knee has now fully recovered and he still has a gun for an arm. Those that are blowing him off as some fluke who just flinged the ball as far as he could and let Moss catch passes can't really be serious. Give the man some credit for becoming a solid QB in the league whether you like to admit it or not. Is he a turn over machine? Sometimes. Is he probably a little heavy and out of shape? Probably. Is he washed up and a shell of his former self? who knows? I can tell you he is a CAREER 63% passer with 142 TD's to 94 INT's (decent ratio). He also has 33 rushing TD's so please stop acting like this guy was a bust. It's a joke reading some of these comments especially when the Lions are clearly upgrading their QB position. Anything other than what the Lions have right now is a upgrade over their current roster of QB's. If you're so high on him, take him in Miami, oops, you already tried that. Your comment above, you, nor we, can say that nor will anyone be able to say so til we see what we currently have. Everyone I know wants to see Stanton, especially after showing some all around skills in preseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
policyvote Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 (edited) It's amazing how much animosity C-Pep generates on this site. I would think there would be some love for a guy who helped carry owners to championships in his glory days of 2000,2002,2003 and 2004. Well in 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2004, when people were riding C-pep to fantasy championships and the Viking were riding C-pep to medocrity, and every empty talking head was christening them Super Bowl favorites year after year after year after year, I was pounding this drum. You can't win with him. He can throw all the touchdowns in the world, but when you need a completion, he'll throw it in the stands. When you need a touchdown, he'll fumble. When it's all over but the shouting, he'll throw a long bomb and then do the stupid "rolling" thing, and you'll lose by 14 instead of 21. Those that are blowing him off as some fluke who just flinged the ball as far as he could and let Moss catch passes can't really be serious. Give the man some credit for becoming a solid QB in the league whether you like to admit it or not. Is he a turn over machine? Sometimes. Is he probably a little heavy and out of shape? Probably. Is he washed up and a shell of his former self? who knows? What happened when he lost Moss? He played like ass. He was never a 'solid' QB; he's always a turnover machine, and he's probably now a shell of THAT former self, which wasn't any good. I can tell you he is a CAREER 63% passer with 142 TD's to 94 INT's (decent ratio). He also has 33 rushing TD's so please stop acting like this guy was a bust. It's a joke reading some of these comments especially when the Lions are clearly upgrading their QB position. Anything other than what the Lions have right now is a upgrade over their current roster of QB's. and what happens when you add fumbles back in? (ETA: 93 career fumbles, 38 lost, 142-132 TD/turnover ratio). If you take away his ability to tuck and run (age, weight, knee), he's just a guy with a good arm, but a penchant for turnovers. Sounds a lot like Kitna to me, and the Lions were just as pathetic with Kitna back there--in fact, they've improved just by getting rid of his stupid picks. This season's done, let's see the future; the future isn't f'ing Daunte f'ing Culpepper. Peace policy Edited October 31, 2008 by policyvote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishFreak Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 We aren't going to go down that road again are we? Stay down on this one my brotha. I'm always down to go up any road worth exploring......Brotha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishFreak Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 If you're so high on him, take him in Miami, oops, you already tried that. Your comment above, you, nor we, can say that nor will anyone be able to say so til we see what we currently have. Everyone I know wants to see Stanton, especially after showing some all around skills in preseason. Exactly who is everyone you know? They would be wise to give Stanton a shot but when exactly can he get on the field and why hasn't he to this point? Getting C-Pep on the cheap would be wise and then groom Stanton since you're so high on him. That way the Lions don't have to spend a high 1st round pick on a rookie QB that will take another 1-2 years to develop with no guarantees of success. The Lions need to revamp their O and D-line thru the draft and maybe get a few skilled players via free agency. That is assuming the new regime knows how to draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishFreak Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Well in 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2004, when people were riding C-pep to fantasy championships and the Viking were riding C-pep to medocrity, and every empty talking head was christening them Super Bowl favorites year after year after year after year, I was pounding this drum. You can't win with him. He can throw all the touchdowns in the world, but when you need a completion, he'll throw it in the stands. When you need a touchdown, he'll fumble. When it's all over but the shouting, he'll throw a long bomb and then do the stupid "rolling" thing, and you'll lose by 14 instead of 21. What happened when he lost Moss? He played like ass. He was never a 'solid' QB; he's always a turnover machine, and he's probably now a shell of THAT former self, which wasn't any good. and what happens when you add fumbles back in? (ETA: 93 career fumbles, 38 lost, 142-132 TD/turnover ratio). If you take away his ability to tuck and run (age, weight, knee), he's just a guy with a good arm, but a penchant for turnovers. Sounds a lot like Kitna to me, and the Lions were just as pathetic with Kitna back there--in fact, they've improved just by getting rid of his stupid picks. This season's done, let's see the future; the future isn't f'ing Daunte f'ing Culpepper. Peace policy Policy, after further review you're right. Culpepper sucks. His stats are a mirage and he shold have never been a pro-bowler. Randy Moss assisted him with every pass thrown and he had nothing to do with Minnesta's success during his stay there. In fact compared to the Lions QB's, Culpepper should have never even been drafted. With QB's like Kitna, Orlovsky and Stanton the Lions future is bright to continue holding down a top 5 spot on the misery index and remain one of the NFL's laughing stocks. Gotta luv Lion fans! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Exactly who is everyone you know? They would be wise to give Stanton a shot but when exactly can he get on the field and why hasn't he to this point? Getting C-Pep on the cheap would be wise and then groom Stanton since you're so high on him. That way the Lions don't have to spend a high 1st round pick on a rookie QB that will take another 1-2 years to develop with no guarantees of success. The Lions need to revamp their O and D-line thru the draft and maybe get a few skilled players via free agency. That is assuming the new regime knows how to draft. Now you say CPep on the cheap, far cry from your earlier ramblings. I seriously doubt the Lions will go #1 on a qb, been there, done that. Everyone I know? Hmmm, I'm a Lions homer, so I would guess everyone who's into football in Michigan that I know. I'm guessing they try Stanton after Chicago, and let Orlovsky face them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Exactly who is everyone you know? They would be wise to give Stanton a shot but when exactly can he get on the field and why hasn't he to this point? Getting C-Pep on the cheap would be wise and then groom Stanton since you're so high on him. That way the Lions don't have to spend a high 1st round pick on a rookie QB that will take another 1-2 years to develop with no guarantees of success. The Lions need to revamp their O and D-line thru the draft and maybe get a few skilled players via free agency. That is assuming the new regime knows how to draft. That's a pretty flippant response from a guy whose team has won exactly 2 more games than the Lions in the past 5 years, not to mention going though 5 different HCs in that time. The Lions are clearly not going anywhere this year. Let the young guys get some baptism under fire since they have a couple of years in the league now and aren't wide-eyed rookies. What exactly would adding Culpepper to DET's roster accomplish other than keeping the young QBs on the bench while DET continues to lose - because Culpepper isn't the answer to any question that doesn't have the words "washed up" in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 (edited) The thing is, assuming that Culpepper is signed, this appears to be a continuation of the Lions philosophy of using stop gap measures to attempt to win in the now, rather than looking to the future. Stanton has had a rocky road. On IR all last year. Some preseason work this year. No snaps in a real game ever. If the Lions believe that Stanton may be the QB of the future, they need to get him in some games this year. Orlovsky is not the answer. So even if Orlovsky is playing well, given that the season is in the tank, you can start pulling him, maybe in the 4th quarter to start with, beginning sometime in the next couple of games, to get Stanton some looks. Thereafter, Stanton gets more PT and he starts the last few games. You have to see Stanton in game situations and you might as well do that now, if you think that he may be your QB of the future. From what I know of the situation, there ain't no way that Culpepper is going to agree to something like that. He wants the job and he wants to play. The signing (should it occur) makes sense only if the Lions have written off Stanton. There has been no indication of that as far as I know. But since when have the Lions made sense? Edited October 31, 2008 by Furd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Did Furd just say Culpepper was the missing piece to possible Lions success? The thing is, assuming that Culpepper is signed, this appears to be a continuation of the Lions philosophy of using stop gap measures to attempt to win in the now, rather than looking to the future. Yes, I think he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuke'em ttg Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 these Lion fans sure know their misery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 Did Furd just say Culpepper was the missing piece to possible Lions success? Yes, I think he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 The thing is, assuming that Culpepper is signed, this appears to be a continuation of the Lions philosophy of using stop gap measures to attempt to win in the now, rather than looking to the future. maybe they don't care to be the first 0-16 team ever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
policyvote Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 maybe they don't care to be the first 0-16 team ever? This is one of the things that endears Marinelli to me. They really are running out there every single week, and acting like they're about to play a one-game season. The players are still out there clawing and scrapping, the coaches are trying everything, benching and starting guys based on performance and not 'potential'--it's maddening to us fans, who long since threw in the towel and would love to see all the rooks out there. But think about this--Linehan lost the Rams like five weeks ago, but the Lions are still fighting for Marinelli. I don't know that Rod has all of what it takes to be an NFL head coach, but I'll be damned if the players aren't behind him. Peace policy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish247 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Too long of a thread ... Bottom line--giving Culpepper a multi-year deal is not the answer to any NFL team's problems at the moment. Giving him a multi-week deal probably wouldn't help either. Culpepper sucks and is kind of a Grade A doouche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 So is it completely relevant that he had one great season on a team that consistently found a way to lose. I remember when Peyton Manning's teams consistently found ways to lose in the playoffs. Did that make him less of a QB? Culpepper is one of the few QBs to average 1 fumble per game. I never said that he was a winner. I said that he was a pretty solid QB for a while in MIN. They lost the first two games of the 05 year. Culpepper threw 0 touchdowns and 8 interceptions in those first two games coming off his greatest season. He also lost his offensive coordinator and best receiver that year. Note that Peyton's TD/INT ratio is a lot lower than it's been in the past. Is that completely his fault? The point that making touchdowns while losing several games only counts in fantasy football seems valid to me. Tying a QBs worth to his team's win/loss record doesn't seem valid at all to me. Does that mean that Carson Palmer completely blows? Great stats on an 8-8 team when you are the QB does mean something in my book. Yes, he had some skills when he was lower 20s and healthy. OK, so we agree on something. That player is no longer there and I really wouldn't want a questionable character person to be a QB when you are trying to rebuild a team that has a history of losing. Agreed on that first point, but the fact is that he's better than anything the Lions currently have. And in most cases, you're MUCH better off bringing a young QB along slowly, rather than throwing him into the fire right off the bat. The Lions need a quasi-competent veteran QB to start while they develop their QB of the future. I'm not sure that Culpepper is that guy. But if the price is right, they might as well give him a shot. What do they have to lose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishFreak Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Now you say CPep on the cheap, far cry from your earlier ramblings. I seriously doubt the Lions will go #1 on a qb, been there, done that. Everyone I know? Hmmm, I'm a Lions homer, so I would guess everyone who's into football in Michigan that I know. I'm guessing they try Stanton after Chicago, and let Orlovsky face them. Please explain when I went on to say C-Pep should be signed to big bucks?? He'll probably get a 2-year deal loaded with incentive bonuses... That is better than taking a chance on a unproven 1st rounder paying guaranteed big $. Don't be surprised if the Lions do spend a high round pick on a QB. Kitna is done, Orlovsky is a back-up and I'm sure there are very good reasons why Stanton is no. 3 on the depth chart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishFreak Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 That's a pretty flippant response from a guy whose team has won exactly 2 more games than the Lions in the past 5 years, not to mention going though 5 different HCs in that time. The Lions are clearly not going anywhere this year. Let the young guys get some baptism under fire since they have a couple of years in the league now and aren't wide-eyed rookies. What exactly would adding Culpepper to DET's roster accomplish other than keeping the young QBs on the bench while DET continues to lose - because Culpepper isn't the answer to any question that doesn't have the words "washed up" in it. Why do you always make your points with limited data that favor your argument? This thread is about C-pep possibly signing and how that might affect the Lions. That has nothing to do with the Dolphins who are clearly on the upside with much improved coaching and front office. If you want to talk about the fish, start a new thread. Otherwise, stay in your lane and stick to Ryan Torrain and blasting Shanny for something he's done in the last 5 minutes you don't agree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Please explain when I went on to say C-Pep should be signed to big bucks?? He'll probably get a 2-year deal loaded with incentive bonuses... That is better than taking a chance on a unproven 1st rounder paying guaranteed big $. Don't be surprised if the Lions do spend a high round pick on a QB. Kitna is done, Orlovsky is a back-up and I'm sure there are very good reasons why Stanton is no. 3 on the depth chart. I still don't see the Lions spending a high draft pick on a qb, after a #2 on Stanton. I don't think CPep will come here under the terms the Lions would probably want, which means not being tied to CPep for 2 yrs as a starter. To me, Cpep is like putting a Hemi sticker on a Ford Escort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaim.Witz Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Too long of a thread ... Bottom line--giving Culpepper a multi-year deal is not the answer to any NFL team's problems at the moment. Giving him a multi-week deal probably wouldn't help either. Culpepper sucks and is kind of a Grade A doouche. Ummmmm.... I think I would take him on the multi-week deal in Dallas, in place of B. Johnson and Bollinger. At least he could just throw bombs all day and give a defense something to think about. Plus, it would probably make TO and Roy happy to just run, jump (really high) and try and catch balls. It sucks when your pretty decent WR's have to make it into the backfield during the play, so when your QB throws as far as he can, that line of scrimmage seems to be a mile away. As far as sucking, he'd suck less than the other two former MIN QB's Dallas is trotting out against NYG. And if he is truly a oil and vinegar, then he would fit in as a JJ reclamation project. BTW, I won several FF titles with that sucky oil and vinegar in MIN as my QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaim.Witz Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I still don't see the Lions spending a high draft pick on a qb, after a #2 on Stanton. I don't think CPep will come here under the terms the Lions would probably want, which means not being tied to CPep for 2 yrs as a starter. To me, Cpep is like putting a Hemi sticker on a Ford Escort. I once put a Porsche sticker on my Ford Maverick, and nobody noticed the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I once put a Porsche sticker on my Ford Maverick, and nobody noticed the difference. Question is, did you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaim.Witz Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Question is, did you? Not really, since both types seemed to be in the shop a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted November 1, 2008 Author Share Posted November 1, 2008 Local radio is reporting that the Lions signed him for 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 Local radio is reporting that the Lions signed him for 2 years. The only explanation I can come up with, is that some people didn't see Pepper play that much when he was "good". I lived in St. Paul for a few seasons during his hay-day and I've always thought he was a loser and a choke artist. We'll see what happens, but I'm not optimistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Couch Potatoe Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 dude, that achievment you're mocking already makes him the the most accomplished QB in lions history. Now that's funny and true! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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