Oakland the offensive juggernaut

[Big John]

How old are you?

27

[Ursa Majoris]

Yes I saw him play and I still think it is way to early to call him a bust. But we all have our opinions.

I tend to agree. While Russell might not be the second coming of Peyton Manning, to judge him in the dysfunctional madhouse that is Oakland is unfair. If he had some halfway decent coaching in an environment that wasn't dripping with fear and insanity, a serviceable QB could still emerge.

[kingfish247]

How old are you?

27? And?

 

If the OAK Raiders 2003 to 2008 aren't the worst, then they're one of the worst. What's wrong with that statement? What, from 2003 leading up to and including 2008 week 9, would bring you to say that there is anything good about this franchise? Al Davis has made a mockery out of a once proud and successful NFL franchise. Bravo. Insult to injury... Davis somehow manages to make things even worse because he is either moving the team, or threatening to move the team.

 

Let's just look at pure winning percentage over a period of 5+ years:

Since 2003, OAK is .244.

In Millen's 7 years, DET was .277.

The '83-'89 Bucs were .243.

 

So OAK after 5 years is as bad as the Bucs from 83-89. And somehow my statement OAK is one of the worst ever can somehow be attributable to only being 2 years old when the Bucs started their exercise in futility? I don't know the ownership/managing history of that Bucs team but here's why this is worse than at least Millen's era aside from the winning %... Al Davis is the owner AND GM. He has singlehandedly turned an NFL franchise into a joke and no one can fire him to effect any amount of change in the situation. It's a ridiculous situation and, again, not good for Raiders fans or any fan of pro football.

[kingfish247]

Not defending the state of the current team at all, but clearly a statement like that from Kingfish is either:

 

1) Fishing

 

2) Ignorance due to his 5 years of watching pro football

Name a worse 5 consecutive years in football... and counting. If there's more than five other instances of similar futility, I'll agree that I'm just some know-nothing youngin'.

 

This is very much a matter for debate. There are teams that overall have been worse since their inception. There are teams that have had a worse one or two seasons. There are teams that have set single season statistical records in futility.

 

This does not change the facts... the OAK franchise over the past 5 consecutive seasons (and counting) has been one of the worst in NFL history. Al Davis as the owner and GM is only compounding that misery.

Edited November 3, 2008 by kingfish247

[Belushi]

Try to put Matt Ryan or Trent Edwards in the Raider's system and see how well they do! They would be just as bad! We need stability and a good offensive coordinator. Plus some receivers that do not drop almost every pass thrown there way. It is far to early to call J Russ a bust!

 

I just haven't seen anything that would make you think otherwise. His WR's aren't the problem. They're not going to the hall of fame, but they are competent enough if they had a QB that could get them the ball. Curry did well last year with junk QB's. But now he disappears? Is it all his fault? Who is Kyle Orton throwing to at WR? No studs there, but he's put up great numbers.

 

This team had a dominant running game last year. They just needed a semi-competent QB to manage the passing game, and Russell isn't even close to that. They'd have been better off with McCown starting. Heck, even Culpepper could have moved the offence. Atlanta's DB's were playing in the arena league last year, and Russell still can't complete a pass!

 

As for the racist thing, Leinart is looking like a bust too. But at least he's had some NFL success in the past. Oh, and David Carr stinks too. Happy?

[T-Scorp]

Name a worse 5 consecutive years in football... and counting. If there's more than five other instances of similar futility, I'll agree that I'm just some know-nothing youngin'.

 

This is very much a matter for debate. There are teams that overall have been worse since their inception. There are teams that have had a worse one or two seasons. There are teams that have set single season statistical records in futility.

 

This does not change the facts... the OAK franchise over the past 5 consecutive seasons (and counting) has been one of the worst in NFL history. Al Davis as the owner and GM is only compounding that misery.

 

 

I guess what they are pointing out is that some of us remember some very dominant Raider teams in the years preceeding 2003. A few superbowl wins tend to disqualify a team from being the worst franchise in NFL history.

[kingfish247]

... Atlanta's DB's were playing in the arena league last year, and Russell still can't complete a pass! ...

Atlanta's starting DB's on Sunday were Chris Houston, Chevis Jackson, Dominique Foxworth, and Lawyer Milloy.

 

Chris Houston was a rookie drafted last year out of Arkansas.

Chevis Jackson is a rookie out of LSU.

Dominique Foxworth played in 14 games with the Broncos last year.

Lawyer Milloy is in his 13th NFL season. He started 16 games for the Falcons last year and logged 77 solo tackles.

 

DBs that subbed in... Brent Grimes, Antoine Harris, Jamaal Fudge, and Erik Coleman.

 

Grimes... an undrafted rookie in 2007 spent the year on the Falcons practice squad and played in the final two games.

Harris... a 4 year pro who played sparingly in 13 games for ATL in 2007.

Fudge... a 3rd year pro who played sparingly in 14 games with JAX in 2007.

Coleman... a 5th year pro who played last year for the NYJ.

 

So I guess Jamarcus has yet to show his stuff versus Arena League-level DBs so he can't be called completely terrible, yet.

Edited November 3, 2008 by kingfish247

[kingfish247]

I guess what they are pointing out is that some of us remember some very dominant Raider teams in the years preceeding 2003. A few superbowl wins tend to disqualify a team from being the worst franchise in NFL history.

Well, I'm not stupid. I do remember that the Raiders were in the Super Bowl in 2002 but how does that Super Bowl appearance explain the 5 years that have come after it? I guess if you're a Raiders fan and you would rather wax poetic about those glory days in order to gloss over the fact that Davis has singlehandedly presided over one of the worst 5 years in NFL history... more power to them. Meanwhile, Davis gets crazier and crazier. The HCs come and go (as if they are the problem), the draft busts pile up, and the ridiculous contracts are signed.

[kingfish247]

In case anyone is still holding out hope that Oakland 2003 to 2008 is not one of the worst teams in NFL history, please see this week's Misery Index.

 

Big John, how old is Mr. Ratterree? (can't remember his Huddle Forum handle or I'd look it up)

Edited November 4, 2008 by kingfish247

[The Vatican Hitsquad]

They are really bad now, and for the past 5 years and not even us Raider fans are going to argue that. "Worst team in NFL History" implies they are the worst team ever, not the worst current roster/coaching staff over the past 5 years.

[kingfish247]

They are really bad now, and for the past 5 years and not even us Raider fans are going to argue that. "Worst team in NFL History" implies they are the worst team ever, not the worst current roster/coaching staff over the past 5 years.

So Oakland isn't even the worst team in the past 5 years? Pray tell who do you think is worse over the past 5 years?

 

I'm not trying to be an ass. It's just how can you argue with the worst record over the past 5 years let alone one of the worst 5 years in NFL history? This isn't subjective criticism. It's an objective look at the numbers. It's not like the Lions, yeah bad, but at least they just managed a 7 win season. And 6 wins in 2004. If the trend continues into next year or the year after, hate to say it, but Oakland will be worse than the Lions in the past 7 years.

 

The only glimmer of hope or valid argument to the contrary was the decent showing on defense in 2006. But they still only managed 2 wins that year!

[Big John]

In case anyone is still holding out hope that Oakland 2003 to 2008 is not one of the worst teams in NFL history, please see this week's Misery Index.

 

Big John, how old is Mr. Ratterree? (can't remember his Huddle Forum handle or I'd look it up)

rattsass never gave his age, but clues look to be in upper 30s.

[The Vatican Hitsquad]

So Oakland isn't even the worst team in the past 5 years? Pray tell who do you think is worse over the past 5 years?

 

I'm not trying to be an ass. It's just how can you argue with the worst record over the past 5 years let alone one of the worst 5 years in NFL history? This isn't subjective criticism. It's an objective look at the numbers. It's not like the Lions, yeah bad, but at least they just managed a 7 win season. And 6 wins in 2004. If the trend continues into next year or the year after, hate to say it, but Oakland will be worse than the Lions in the past 7 years.

 

The only glimmer of hope or valid argument to the contrary was the decent showing on defense in 2006. But they still only managed 2 wins that year!

You didn't say last 5 years until you got flack. You said worst team in NFL history. Huge difference.

[Chavez]

You didn't say last 5 years until you got flack. You said worst team in NFL history. Huge difference.

The problem with the Raiders is that Al Davis was a bright offensive mind and a personnel whiz who was WAY ahead of the curve in the 60s and 70s. He was still successful as the league caught up to him in the 80s, and fell behind in the 90s....aside from the brief hiccup of Gruden, the Raiders are WAAAAY behind the curve right now.

 

The main problem is Al still thinks he's AHEAD of the curve.

[keggerz]

By now there's no reason for Goodell, with the backing of the other NFL owners, not to step in to change things in Oakland. It's bad for Oakland fans, it's bad for fans who want to see a decent football game, it's just plain bad for the league to have such disfunction within one of the NFL's franchises.

 

It's ten times worse than Detroit has ever been since 2001. OAK is one of the worst, if not the worst, NFL franchises in the history of the NFL.

Something tells me that the definition of History isn't "It is a 5 year time line"

 

27? And?

 

If the OAK Raiders 2003 to 2008 aren't the worst, then they're one of the worst. What's wrong with that statement? What, from 2003 leading up to and including 2008 week 9, would bring you to say that there is anything good about this franchise? Al Davis has made a mockery out of a once proud and successful NFL franchise. Bravo. Insult to injury... Davis somehow manages to make things even worse because he is either moving the team, or threatening to move the team.

 

Let's just look at pure winning percentage over a period of 5+ years:

Since 2003, OAK is .244.

In Millen's 7 years, DET was .277.

The '83-'89 Bucs were .243.

 

So OAK after 5 years is as bad as the Bucs from 83-89. And somehow my statement OAK is one of the worst ever can somehow be attributable to only being 2 years old when the Bucs started their exercise in futility? I don't know the ownership/managing history of that Bucs team but here's why this is worse than at least Millen's era aside from the winning %... Al Davis is the owner AND GM. He has singlehandedly turned an NFL franchise into a joke and no one can fire him to effect any amount of change in the situation. It's a ridiculous situation and, again, not good for Raiders fans or any fan of pro football.

:andthebackpedalbegins:

 

Name a worse 5 consecutive years in football... and counting. If there's more than five other instances of similar futility, I'll agree that I'm just some know-nothing youngin'.

 

This is very much a matter for debate. There are teams that overall have been worse since their inception. There are teams that have had a worse one or two seasons. There are teams that have set single season statistical records in futility.

 

This does not change the facts... the OAK franchise over the past 5 consecutive seasons (and counting) has been one of the worst in NFL history. Al Davis as the owner and GM is only compounding that misery.

:andthebackpedalcontinues:

 

Well, I'm not stupid. I do remember that the Raiders were in the Super Bowl in 2002 but how does that Super Bowl appearance explain the 5 years that have come after it? I guess if you're a Raiders fan and you would rather wax poetic about those glory days in order to gloss over the fact that Davis has singlehandedly presided over one of the worst 5 years in NFL history... more power to them. Meanwhile, Davis gets crazier and crazier. The HCs come and go (as if they are the problem), the draft busts pile up, and the ridiculous contracts are signed.

Do you know when the NFL actually started?

 

So Oakland isn't even the worst team in the past 5 years? Pray tell who do you think is worse over the past 5 years?

 

I'm not trying to be an ass. It's just how can you argue with the worst record over the past 5 years let alone one of the worst 5 years in NFL history? This isn't subjective criticism. It's an objective look at the numbers. It's not like the Lions, yeah bad, but at least they just managed a 7 win season. And 6 wins in 2004. If the trend continues into next year or the year after, hate to say it, but Oakland will be worse than the Lions in the past 7 years.

 

The only glimmer of hope or valid argument to the contrary was the decent showing on defense in 2006. But they still only managed 2 wins that year!

:therubberisburningoffthosesoles:

 

You didn't say last 5 years until you got flack. You said worst team in NFL history. Huge difference.

DING DING DING.....The referee has stopped this bout due to incoherence..... the Winner by TKO...."The Vatican Hitsquad"

Edited November 5, 2008 by keggerz

[McBoog]

Racist! All the ones you named as doing good are white. All the ones you named as busts are black!!

 

Or is it maybe just that whites are better than blacks?

 

 

 

It should go noted that I am just making a joke. Damn sensitive people...

 

I'd comment on the Raiders but get a for piling on.

 

re: your post. All the racial sensitivity is over. No more race card in this country. No more whining about "the system" from ANYONE! We have a black president.

Edited November 5, 2008 by McBoog