Grits and Shins Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Been one of those years in my local ... my team is 2-7 and has not shot at the playoffs. I still manage my team each week (thus my 2 wins after going 0-6). Here is my problem ... I've been playing with a crappy TE and have not been willing to spend $5 to acquire another crappy TE from waivers in the attempt to upgrade. Now my crappy TE is off this week so I have to decide between taking a zero at that position or coughing up the transaction fee to acquire another scrub TE. One thing is clear .. I'm not making the playoffs ... so whatever transaction fees I spend is money lost. So ... why should I spend the $5 to pick up another TE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun Messiahs Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Sounds like you are wanting to tank it. Good idea! Get a better draft pick position, you should (Yoda HEHE). I would just stick with the zero points too. If anyone says anything just say who should I have picked up? Who is on the WW or FA in your league BTW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I always count money I spend in FF as money lost to begin with.... so that shouldn't enter into the picture. By not submitting a full lineup you are giving your opponent an advantage and probably a win. Does that affect the league? Yes. You always compete to your fullest no matter what the cards have in store for you. Get the crappy TE off the WW and compete Blitz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I always count money I spend in FF as money lost to begin with.... so that shouldn't enter into the picture. By not submitting a full lineup you are giving your opponent an advantage and probably a win. Does that affect the league? Yes. You always compete to your fullest no matter what the cards have in store for you. Get the crappy TE off the WW and compete Blitz! + 87 (eddie kennison) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun Messiahs Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 That would not be in his best interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 This brings up an interesting thought. Perhaps teams should be allowed free waivers (with the stipulation that they can only use them to complete their roster in instances of byes or injuries) provided they concede any shot at the money. That way, this sort of thing doesn't happen and everyone is forced to play against a complete roster. I do think it's asking too much of losing owners to chase a lost bet just for the benefit of others. In terms of this situation I don't think it's a big deal that you failed to start a TE for a week. 9 times out of 10, the waiver TEs that people pick up don't amount to crap anyway. Who were you going to grab? Mercedes Lewis? Dante Rosario? I can't remember the last time I grabbed some late season TE pick-up to cover a bye week and got more than 20 yds out of the guy. There's a reason these guys aren't on anyone's roster right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 That would not be in his best interest. Well in that case..why submit a lineup at all. Just ignore the league until the next draft. Join the legions of no-load FF owners out there and screw your leaguemates for a better draft position.... that what you are sayin'? You are supposed to be prepared for bye weeks. You are supposed to compete to the utmost. You are supposed to have some integrity. You can't do those why even be part of the league? I can guarantee that those advocating not submitting a full lineup would be the first in line to complain and be unhappy if they were in line for a PO spot and some no-load owner having a losing season screwed them over by submitting a bye player and giving the game to someone also in line for a PO spot. I can hear the yelling and crying now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun Messiahs Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 (edited) Well in that case..why submit a lineup at all. Just ignore the league until the next draft. Join the legions of no-load FF owners out there and screw your leaguemates for a better draft position.... that what you are sayin'? You are supposed to be prepared for bye weeks. You are supposed to compete to the utmost. You are supposed to have some integrity. You can't do those why even be part of the league? I can guarantee that those advocating not submitting a full lineup would be the first in line to complain and be unhappy if they were in line for a PO spot and some no-load owner having a losing season screwed them over by submitting a bye player and giving the game to someone also in line for a PO spot. I can hear the yelling and crying now. Calm down all mighty one. I don't do it myself. I don't get myself in 10 leagues and have a hard time being a manager. Each league i'm in, I am a committed owner. I don't only pay attention when the team is doing good. If someone is actually asking the question if they should tank it to save cash or get a better draft position cuz they waited so long to pick up a player in week 10. I'm going to tell them to go ahead. He or she isn't that committed with that league anyways. Edited November 4, 2008 by Shotgun Messiahs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Calm down all mighty one. I don't do it myself. LOL I do get a bit heated when the subject of quitting comes up. And I know you aren't the one...was just addressing the question/response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 (edited) Well in that case..why submit a lineup at all. Just ignore the league until the next draft. Join the legions of no-load FF owners out there and screw your leaguemates for a better draft position.... that what you are sayin'? You are supposed to be prepared for bye weeks. You are supposed to compete to the utmost. You are supposed to have some integrity. You can't do those why even be part of the league? I can guarantee that those advocating not submitting a full lineup would be the first in line to complain and be unhappy if they were in line for a PO spot and some no-load owner having a losing season screwed them over by submitting a bye player and giving the game to someone also in line for a PO spot. I can hear the yelling and crying now. The irony is that I'm afraid that Grits is just the person you speak of. Dude is quick to argue on "principle" but only, it seems now, when that is convenient. I can easily see him bashing someone for doing precisely what he's talking about doing right now. Thus, it is with some reservation that I take the side he is advocating here. None the less, teams in the real NFL do what is in their best interest, sometimes to the detriment of competitive integrity. Quite recently the play-offs were determined to some extent because one of the teams vying for the last spot had the good fortune of playing against a team who'd locked up their spot and was playing out the string. How is that markedly different than what's going on here? Both Grits and the team that didn't play its starters were doing right by themselves rather than concerning themselves with what was "fairest" for the rest of the league. Now, it is all to different degrees and one could argue that it's somewhat bush to worry about the $5 whereas resting your starters could be an important strategic move to help you win it all. Then again, pulling all your main starters after the 1st quarter is, in fact, basically throwing the game where failing to pick up a random waiver TE in week 10 may not have any substantive impact on whether you win or lose. None the less, we're not arguing degrees here. We're arguing how much any owner owes it to his league mates to do something that does him no good at all just for the benefit of everyone else. I think that if it's OK for actual NFL teams to disregard that, it's certainly OK for FF teams to do the same. Now, he could also say to his league mates, "If someone wants to pick up the tab for me to buy a fill-in TE, that's fine, but I'm out of it and am not going to chase bad money with good." Edited November 4, 2008 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 (edited) I firmly believe that tanking is a shameful exercise and that anyone that does it should be tossed from the league. Owners have an obligation, IMO, to start who they think will score the most points. However, I don't think that this obligation invariably extends to the waiver wire. Might. Might not. I don't think that it does in your situation, as you have a legitimate reason for not doing so - to avoid a waiver fee. I play in a crummy league with my brothers in which you only get 3 waiver moves per year (they won't change it despite my lobbying, but its a family thing.). I usually won't use one of those moves on a TE, nor will most guys. So if one of your TEs goes down (you must carry 2), you're probably going to take a zero on your remaining TE's bye week. Another situation may be that you don't want to cut anyone on your roster to pick up some stiff like Dustin Keller to use for one week. On the other hand, say you have an unlimited waiver wire, you must carry two TEs and one of your TEs blows out his knee. That owner has an obligation to pick up who he/she thinks is the best TE available if necessary to complete a starting lineup. So its a case by case kinda thing. Edited November 4, 2008 by Furd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I should add that the big picture argument can extend to some pretty gray areas. We have a team in one of my leagues who is now 0-9. He had a miserable draft, caught a few bad breaks, lost some heartbreakers, etc. None the less, he's obviously been out of it for a few weeks now. One of the contenders offered him a trade last week that would have made his team better but also made the other guys team better as well. Essentially, the contender would be giving up several guys on his bench that would be good enough to start on the last place team for the one major star player the last place guy had. He declined the trade because he didn't think it was honorable to help any particular team get over the top even though it would technically make his team more competitive down the stretch. I think that was the right thing to do even though one could argue that he's just packing it in and should keep trying. Thing is, he realizes that he actually owes it to the league not try in this case considering he has no chance of making the play-offs. So, in other words, it's sort of a complicated situation. I should note, however, that he did have enough pride to replace both his D and Kicker this week (both of whom had byes) to fill out a complete line-up and, FWIW, I would do the same. I'm just not going to bash someone for not doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 When you accept an invitation to play in a league, I think it goes without saying that you are agreeing to participate to the best of your abilities...to field as competitive a squad as possible each and every week. Your record should have no bearing as to whether you follow the rules or not. Would G&S consider tanking in Week 1? Of course not. Nor should he be considering it during Week 10. If the integrity of the league is not worth the $5 fee for picking up a free agent, then why play in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted November 4, 2008 Author Share Posted November 4, 2008 1. It is a redraft league ... so this year has zero impact on next year 2. I think you find my stance on owners managing their own teams has been consistent. 3. Certainly I count my entry fee as money spent. That money is gone. However, when I spent that money I still had a chance to make the playoffs and/or get a payout. How many owners would play every year if they knew for a certainty that they would not make the playoffs and/or end up in the money? My season was over after week 6. Had I not had an IR move you guys are saying I should have spent $5 one week to cover my kicker by and then $5 this week to cover my TE bye. Toss $10 into the pot just so everybody can say I'm still trying? Given that I'm out of the money I am having a hard time justifying throwing another $5 into the pot for somebody else to win. I have not quit and continue to manage my team - I used an IR move (which are free) to pick up a kicker to cover a bye week. My two wins have come in the last 3 weeks so I'm doing what I can to be the spoiler. And in the end I want to win as many games as I can. Now some have said it is only $5. But it is only $5 now. What if the I can't field a lineup next week because of an injury? Then it is another $5. Given my record I can have any player available on waivers each week ... but at this point why would I pick anybody up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted November 4, 2008 Author Share Posted November 4, 2008 BTW ... my starting TE got a zero in week 9. How is that very much different than starting him on his bye week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LayLow Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 We get fined for that. You could cost another team a win/loss that ends up making or breaking their playoff chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Now some have said it is only $5. But it is only $5 now. What if the I can't field a lineup next week because of an injury? Then it is another $5. Given my record I can have any player available on waivers each week ... but at this point why would I pick anybody up? See my post above. The money is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted November 4, 2008 Author Share Posted November 4, 2008 We get fined for that. You could cost another team a win/loss that ends up making or breaking their playoff chances. Is that team going to pay my transaction fee ... or split his winnings with me? If not why do I care which teams make the playoffs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 We get fined for that. You could cost another team a win/loss that ends up making or breaking their playoff chances. We implimented a fine a few years back. You owe it to the league to field a competitive line up. Next year it could be you in contention hoping a guy starts an active line up every week. This is also why we started awarding weekly prizes for high points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Is that team going to pay my transaction fee ... or split his winnings with me? If not why do I care which teams make the playoffs? Your commitment to the league doesnt end when you are out of contention Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 (edited) Why are those of you arguing on principle advocating that FF owners be held to a higher standard than actual NFL franchise owners? Besides the bit about teams that have clinched that I mentioned above. What about teams that are out of it that want to see what they've got in terms of young talent and giving those guys more playing time at the end of the season? Don't they owe it to the rest of the teams to continually put out their "best" players? What if someone made the play-offs because they beat an out of contention team who benched their star running back who was ailing but still could have technically gone but they didn't see why it was worth risking further injury in a game that didn't matter to them. Edited November 4, 2008 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_bone65 Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Would you have a problem if you were 8-0 and another team that was 2-6 was doing this? I personally would always try to field the best possible team that I could and if it meant throwing $5 away then so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Why are those of you arguing on principle advocating that FF owners be held to a higher standard than actual NFL franchise owners? Besides the bit about teams that have clinched that I mentioned above. What about teams that are out of it that want to see what they've got in terms of young talent and giving those guys more playing time at the end of the season? Don't they owe it to the rest of the teams to continually put out their "best" players? What if someone made the play-offs because they beat an out of contention team who benched their star running back who was ailing but still could have technically gone but they didn't see why it was worth risking further injury in a game that didn't matter to them. The comparison is not on an even playing field at all. A fantasy football owner would never have to factor in getting a look at a young player for future consideration you could get a look at a player without starting him in fantasy football Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted November 4, 2008 Author Share Posted November 4, 2008 We implimented a fine a few years back. You owe it to the league to field a competitive line up. Next year it could be you in contention hoping a guy starts an active line up every week. This is also why we started awarding weekly prizes for high points My TE scored a zero in week 9. It is very likely that any TE I pick up off waivers would do the same or perhaps just a little bit better. Why should I be required to pay a transaction fee to pick up a scrub player that likely will not make my team any more competitive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Why are those of you arguing on principle advocating that FF owners be held to a higher standard than actual NFL franchise owners? Because FF owners should have more honor than NFL owners? Because FF is not the NFL? The whole point of this thread question, to me, is... I'm out of it so screw'em. Where is the honor in that? You never quit.. you always compete to the fullest. Otherwise there is no point in playing. Money has nothing to do with it.... that is just a side product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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