mpgerma Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 I was the only owner that missed the draft back in August. The commissioner drafted a decent team for me. This past week I won the weekly championship for the first time this season. The commissioner sent me an email stating that since my bench lineup was against league rules, that my win was disqualified. In addition, they realized just now I've also had another week where I had an illegal reserve bench so they have to reverse the points from that week as well. It turns out at the draft, the owners and commissioner agreed to a league rule requiring you to keep at least a QB and a DST as one of the four possible bench positions. Since I don't know most of the other owners as I'm new to the league, no one ever communicated to me via email or phone call to let me know the new rule. In addition, the commissioner sent out revised rules after the draft, but forgot to include this new rule in it. So I've been setting my lineups each week based upon an incomplete set of rules. The commissioner agreed that he never let me know about the new rule, but he said he still has to enforce the punishment because he's disqualified a couple of other owners in previous weeks (unbeknownst to me) for the same rule violations. And he feels because he punished them, then to be consistent, he has to punish me too even though I never heard of this rule before. In addition, the league rules state that for a rule to pass, ALL owners must vote. The commissioner hasn't addressed this point, but I suspect he'll tell me that it didn't really mean ALL. Should I be kept to the same standards as the other owners even though I don't have a complete set of rules.....or is my commissioner a jerk? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myhousekey Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Sounds like if its not in the written rules you have a leg to stand on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Furley Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 In addition, the league rules state that for a rule to pass, ALL owners must vote. The commissioner hasn't addressed this point, but I suspect he'll tell me that it didn't really mean ALL. Should I be kept to the same standards as the other owners even though I don't have a complete set of rules.....or is my commissioner a jerk? Mike Is it "all owners that are present" must vote? As a commish of two leagues, I would never draft a team for someone else. He's got a million things to do before the draft, and now he has to draft two teams. As far as being a jerk, it sounds like he was nice enough to draft a team for a new guy, when he could have gotten someone else to take your place. I'd cut him some slack. The commish can take a lot of heat sometimes for something that is supossed to be fun. In my opinion, if others were penalized, so should you. Perhaps when the other players had their punishment dealt, you should have inquired about it. Or you could have asked if any new rules were put in place at the draft since 99% of the time that's when rule changes are made. Or, you could just not miss the draft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkirc Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 I was the only owner that missed the draft back in August. The commissioner drafted a decent team for me. This past week I won the weekly championship for the first time this season. The commissioner sent me an email stating that since my bench lineup was against league rules, that my win was disqualified. In addition, they realized just now I've also had another week where I had an illegal reserve bench so they have to reverse the points from that week as well. It turns out at the draft, the owners and commissioner agreed to a league rule requiring you to keep at least a QB and a DST as one of the four possible bench positions. Since I don't know most of the other owners as I'm new to the league, no one ever communicated to me via email or phone call to let me know the new rule. In addition, the commissioner sent out revised rules after the draft, but forgot to include this new rule in it. So I've been setting my lineups each week based upon an incomplete set of rules. The commissioner agreed that he never let me know about the new rule, but he said he still has to enforce the punishment because he's disqualified a couple of other owners in previous weeks (unbeknownst to me) for the same rule violations. And he feels because he punished them, then to be consistent, he has to punish me too even though I never heard of this rule before. In addition, the league rules state that for a rule to pass, ALL owners must vote. The commissioner hasn't addressed this point, but I suspect he'll tell me that it didn't really mean ALL. Should I be kept to the same standards as the other owners even though I don't have a complete set of rules.....or is my commissioner a jerk? Mike I think it is obvious that your commissioner is incompentent and doesn't communicate as he should. I would fight this ruling based on the facts that you didn't know the rule and never voted on the rule. Find another league next year..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Since he did not give you the full set of rules, it could appear that me may be pulling a fast one on you. Regardless, that rule should not be enforced as you had no way of knowing about it but it could be enforced later on if that really is in the rulebook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Since he did not give you the full set of rules, it could appear that me may be pulling a fast one on you. Regardless, that rule should not be enforced as you had no way of knowing about it but it could be enforced later on if that really is in the rulebook. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpgerma Posted November 9, 2008 Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 Is it "all owners that are present" must vote? As a commish of two leagues, I would never draft a team for someone else. He's got a million things to do before the draft, and now he has to draft two teams. As far as being a jerk, it sounds like he was nice enough to draft a team for a new guy, when he could have gotten someone else to take your place. I'd cut him some slack. The commish can take a lot of heat sometimes for something that is supossed to be fun. In my opinion, if others were penalized, so should you. Perhaps when the other players had their punishment dealt, you should have inquired about it. Or you could have asked if any new rules were put in place at the draft since 99% of the time that's when rule changes are made. Or, you could just not miss the draft Ralph, you're correct I should probably cut him some slack for drafting for me. I've been commissioner in another league for over 10 years and I've on occassion drafted for myself and another owner who couldn't make it....while it isn't the best thing to do, it is possible. Had I known about the previous punishments, I would certainly have asked why. Unfortunately, I am the only owner that doesn't sit on the same floor or building as the other 11 owners and so when it happened, according to the commissioner, it was a big discussion on the floor, but no emails were sent out about it. So I never knew about the other punishments until the commissioner told me this past week when I had broken the rule. I did ask one other owner after the draft how the draft went and he said it was a typical draft and we started talking about who got LT, etc. No mention of the rule though. I appreciate your input, Ralph. If I decide to play next year, I definitely won't miss the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatTom Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 I agree. +2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Furley Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Ralph, you're correct I should probably cut him some slack for drafting for me. I've been commissioner in another league for over 10 years and I've on occassion drafted for myself and another owner who couldn't make it....while it isn't the best thing to do, it is possible. Had I known about the previous punishments, I would certainly have asked why. Unfortunately, I am the only owner that doesn't sit on the same floor or building as the other 11 owners and so when it happened, according to the commissioner, it was a big discussion on the floor, but no emails were sent out about it. So I never knew about the other punishments until the commissioner told me this past week when I had broken the rule. I did ask one other owner after the draft how the draft went and he said it was a typical draft and we started talking about who got LT, etc. No mention of the rule though. I appreciate your input, Ralph. If I decide to play next year, I definitely won't miss the draft. I was being a little sarcastic actually. Honestly, if I was commish, I would never enforce a rule that wasn't written down. Ever. It isn't fair if you don't know about it. You definitely have a gripe, that's for sure. If it were in the rules, and you didn't read it, then I think you'd be out of luck. I'm just slightly sympathetic to the commish of the league because I have been in many situations where no matter what is decided, somebody won't be happy. It looks like this is one of those situations. Good luck, hopefully everything works out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJoTheWebToedBoy Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 The commissioner sent me an email stating that since my bench lineup was against league rules, that my win was disqualified. In addition, they realized just now I've also had another week where I had an illegal reserve bench so they have to reverse the points from that week as well. It turns out at the draft, the owners and commissioner agreed to a league rule requiring you to keep at least a QB and a DST as one of the four possible bench positions. First off, bench rules????? Why the hell do you have bench rules? Secondly, you should have been told, and if the commisioner admits that you didn't know about the rule, then he should not enforce it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Your commish is a putz. This isn't obvious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoog Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Since he did not give you the full set of rules, it could appear that me may be pulling a fast one on you. Regardless, that rule should not be enforced as you had no way of knowing about it but it could be enforced later on if that really is in the rulebook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommyknocker Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Sounds like gravel in the Vaseline to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Roller Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Sounds like gravel in the Vaseline to me. This made me laugh. Don't miss the draft next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Cheezhead Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 11 owners at the draft and the same 11 owners on one floor of an office building...twice discussing and deciding on important league business and twice forgetting to communicate it to the 12th guy. Believe me -- I hate when people miss the draft, but if they asked you to join the league to make it an even 12, then they should treat you like a real league member. The idiotic bench rule should not be enforced against you. You need to make your case (in an e-mail) to all the owners and force a vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Since I don't know most of the other owners as I'm new to the league, no one ever communicated to me via email or phone call to let me know the new rule. In addition, the commissioner sent out revised rules after the draft, but forgot to include this new rule in it. So I've been setting my lineups each week based upon an incomplete set of rules. You had no way of knowing it was an incomplete set of rules. You weren't there when the rule was created, and they didn't record the new rule in the written rules. If the commish doesn't allow your point totals to stand, I'd demand a refund of your entry fee. I can't believe that the commish or the other people in the league wouldn't be understanding in this situation. Why should you get punished? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robash Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Man, I thought this thread was directed at me at first. I'm a big stickler when it comes to rules...but if the guy admitted you had no clue about this one even I wouldnt of enforced it on you. Easy fix is to just not return next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Sounds like you are "the dude who missed the draft, that no one knows or likes". Let him run your team the rest of the year and find a new league with consistent rules for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 This made me laugh. Don't miss the draft next year. Correction, miss the draft and the entire season with regards to this league. A bunch of guys you don't know, you couldn't even draft, and now you're getting penalized for some lame rule you didn't know about. Sounds like a league you don't need to be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosberg34 Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Give me some names and numbers and myself and a few other Huddlers will pay them a visit next week and set them straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrip Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Sounds like a fast one. I bet he keeps coming up with reasons to keep you out of the cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 I don't know if your Commish is being a jerk, but he has absolutely 100% used bad judgement in how he has handled this situation. He is wrong. You are right. He needs to acknoledge that you did nothing that warrants punishment. You followed the rules as they were communicated to you by him. If he listens to all of the arguments, and then still insists that he has to punish you, then yeah I'd say he is a jerk, and I would probably dump the league. Commissioners are human and will make mistakes... but they have to be fair and handle each situation individually as it comes up, instead of just relying on the letter of the law no matter what. If he doesn't make it right, bail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Since he did not give you the full set of rules, it could appear that me may be pulling a fast one on you. Regardless, that rule should not be enforced as you had no way of knowing about it but it could be enforced later on if that really is in the rulebook. BJ knows stuff. Not only is this enforcement arbitrary, but you have a set of rules that have been provided to you that the commish is not acting in accordance with. Appeal to the commish by sending him an e-mail with the rules he provided you attached, and if that doesn't work appeal to the league. I won't even get into the required bench position stupidity, especially since it appears that your benchs are very limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpgerma Posted November 9, 2008 Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 It is official. On friday the commissioner agreed to let the other owners of the league decide if the commissioner's ruling should stand or be reversed. I was allowed to send an email to the other owners with my side of the story (basically the same wording put together at the top of this forum topic). While not everyone has voted, there are now enough votes in favor of the commissioner's original ruling. Only one owner voted on my side. I am dumbfounded. What seemed to me like a cut and dry case for me apparently isn't. Something must be going on with the other owners. I can't believe they are all idiots and don't understand right from wrong. I know a couple of them actually work for the commissioner and a few others work with the commissioner so maybe I'm not getting a fair vote because they are too afraid, for job security, to vote against the commissioner. I don't know, this is just a guess. I expect the commissioner will send me an email or phone call on monday confirming the outcome of the vote. In my 15+ years in FFL, I have never come across something like this before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
femmefootball Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 It is official. On friday the commissioner agreed to let the other owners of the league decide if the commissioner's ruling should stand or be reversed. I was allowed to send an email to the other owners with my side of the story (basically the same wording put together at the top of this forum topic). While not everyone has voted, there are now enough votes in favor of the commissioner's original ruling. Only one owner voted on my side. I am dumbfounded. What seemed to me like a cut and dry case for me apparently isn't. Something must be going on with the other owners. I can't believe they are all idiots and don't understand right from wrong. I know a couple of them actually work for the commissioner and a few others work with the commissioner so maybe I'm not getting a fair vote because they are too afraid, for job security, to vote against the commissioner. I don't know, this is just a guess. I expect the commissioner will send me an email or phone call on monday confirming the outcome of the vote. In my 15+ years in FFL, I have never come across something like this before. WOW that sucks. Those owners clearly care about only one thing - winning. So if they have even a shot at doing it cheaply, they will. I think you should demand your entrance fee back - that's ridiculous. Maybe you should show him what everyone here says. It's definitely not fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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