Bronco Billy Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 It is official. On friday the commissioner agreed to let the other owners of the league decide if the commissioner's ruling should stand or be reversed. I was allowed to send an email to the other owners with my side of the story (basically the same wording put together at the top of this forum topic). While not everyone has voted, there are now enough votes in favor of the commissioner's original ruling. Only one owner voted on my side. I am dumbfounded. What seemed to me like a cut and dry case for me apparently isn't. Something must be going on with the other owners. I can't believe they are all idiots and don't understand right from wrong. I know a couple of them actually work for the commissioner and a few others work with the commissioner so maybe I'm not getting a fair vote because they are too afraid, for job security, to vote against the commissioner. I don't know, this is just a guess. I expect the commissioner will send me an email or phone call on monday confirming the outcome of the vote. In my 15+ years in FFL, I have never come across something like this before. There is nothing to decide. The league is either going to follow the rules or not. At the very least, the rules are ambiguous with a verbal vote being in conflict with the written rules, in which case deference should be made to the written version. And in any case, without your being notified of the rule change and the written rules not being changed, there is no way you could have known any different and therefor complied. Putting it to a vote shows how chicken**** the commish. It took him off the hook for screwing up in not modifying the rules, and put the vote into the hands of owners who have a bias to see you get screwed over. If this stands, wreck the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBowden1220 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 I think the commissioner sounds like a jerk, or at the very least, not a very competent commissioner. He obviously should have communicated this rule to you. At the same time, I don't think it's really unfair or inequitable for the league to decide to enforce a real rule against you. I mean, the teams who have already faced disqualification for violating the rule probably would think it unfair for it not to apply against you (obviously things would be different if the rule wasn't enforced consistently). Imagine that somebody invited a friend who had never played basketball before and knew nothing about it to play in a 1 on 1 basketball tournament. He never explains to his friend that the league decided to institute a 20 second shot clock. So his friend "wins" a game where he shoots the final shot after 25 seconds of possession, but obviously that shot doesn't count. Is it a bit of a jerk move to not explain that rule to your friend? Sure. But it's also not fair to give a loss to the other guy, who was constrained by the real 20 second rule the entire game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 (edited) At the same time, I don't think it's really unfair or inequitable for the league to decide to enforce a real rule against you. I mean, the teams who have already faced disqualification for violating the rule probably would think it unfair for it not to apply against you (obviously things would be different if the rule wasn't enforced consistently). I'm curious if you had read the part where the commish sent out the written rules and they did not contain the minimum bench requirements (in other words, the commish sent the same written rules from the previous year). If you didn't read that part, do you still hold your position? If you did read that part, why would he have any obligation for minimum bench requirements when the written rules sent to him by the commish do not carry the minimum bench requirements? Just another thought: How does the commish send out written rules that do not carry rule amendments for that year & not one person in the league, other than the author of this thread who didn't know better, either send a correction e-mail to the league or address the commish about his failure to make the change and to edit & resend his e-mail? That seems like the league is complicit with this, which further indicts them on their vote to screw over the author. I'd direct your leaguemates to this thread (and I'd love to see the commish respond here if he has the sack) and see if they feel the same way after reading this. Edited November 10, 2008 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBowden1220 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 (edited) Yes, I read that part. It's another example of poor league management. But since this rule has been enforced previously, I don't think there's any dispute that it is in fact a rule, carelessly/intentionally omitted from the written rules or not. Look, I don't think there's a great solution to this avoidable problem. But I would still tend to err on the side of enforcing a rule that has been consistently enforced against other teams. I would also vote to either strip the commissioner of his position next year or else find another league. Edited November 10, 2008 by CBowden1220 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystykoekaki Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Weak sauce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 The commissioner agreed that he never let me know about the new rule, but he said he still has to enforce the punishment because he's disqualified a couple of other owners in previous weeks (unbeknownst to me) for the same rule violations. And he feels because he punished them, then to be consistent, he has to punish me too even though I never heard of this rule before. Mike, While your situation is certainly tough, it appears both sides can share the fault. While the Commish certainly should have (1) emailed you the newest rules and (2) made sure he had your vote if league rules indeed state that ALL owners must vote, I have to ask: How could you possibly be an involved owner and not realize that this punishment had been handed down in week's past? In our league, if the Commish were to do something so drastic as disqualify a team for not following the rules, I'd be sure to know what those rules were do it didn't happen to me. And you note above that it happened "a couple times". How had you not heard of this? Is there no weekly write-up, or are you an absentee owner that isn't in on the league chatter? I find it hard to beleive that an issue as big as this that reared its ugly head on several occasions made it past you undetected. While it does indeed sound like he gets a kick out being a d-bag, and you could not have followed a rule you knew nothing about, ignorance can only take you so far. I think you have a greater argument for fairness, but you are not completely blame-free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfv87 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Simple answer really... have the commish give you your entry fee back as the rules he is enforcing on you as part of the league is NOT what he sent you and you thought you were playing by. He can run your team as a league team and you can get away from a poorly run league. I know this sounds like "taking your ball and going home" but you cannot expect people to wager money then change the terms of the agreement. Get your money back and get out. If you can... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Mike, While your situation is certainly tough, it appears both sides can share the fault. While the Commish certainly should have (1) emailed you the newest rules and (2) made sure he had your vote if league rules indeed state that ALL owners must vote, I have to ask: How could you possibly be an involved owner and not realize that this punishment had been handed down in week's past? In our league, if the Commish were to do something so drastic as disqualify a team for not following the rules, I'd be sure to know what those rules were do it didn't happen to me. And you note above that it happened "a couple times". How had you not heard of this? Is there no weekly write-up, or are you an absentee owner that isn't in on the league chatter? I find it hard to beleive that an issue as big as this that reared its ugly head on several occasions made it past you undetected. While it does indeed sound like he gets a kick out being a d-bag, and you could not have followed a rule you knew nothing about, ignorance can only take you so far. I think you have a greater argument for fairness, but you are not completely blame-free. I agree with this 100 %. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 You need to make your case (in an e-mail) to all the owners and force a vote.Screw the vote. Just tell them that it's BS and that they need to fix things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrip Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 Well, they wanted your coin and didn't want you to win. game, set, match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpgerma Posted November 11, 2008 Author Share Posted November 11, 2008 How could you possibly be an involved owner and not realize that this punishment had been handed down in week's past? In our league, if the Commish were to do something so drastic as disqualify a team for not following the rules, I'd be sure to know what those rules were do it didn't happen to me. And you note above that it happened "a couple times". How had you not heard of this? Is there no weekly write-up, or are you an absentee owner that isn't in on the league chatter? I find it hard to beleive that an issue as big as this that reared its ugly head on several occasions made it past you undetected. This is an easy one to answer. Since the commish doesn't publish weekly newsletters, since the commish is a first time commish and doesn't realize how important it is to communicate to the league, since I don't sit in the same building, and since I don't know most of the other owners, I never found out about it until it happened to me. I didn't know what I didn't know....if you know what I mean. What is amazing to me is it happened on three separate occasions before mine. While the other owners agreed to the punishment since they were aware of the rule, but had "forgotten" it, it seems logical to me that any commish would think, "hmmmmm, three owners have made the same mistake....maybe I should send an email to the league making them aware of this common mistake so they can avoid it in the future". Of course, now I'll know to call the commish every week to ask if there's been any happenings going on in the league that I should be aware of. While it would be good to send this email to the commish, to see his response, unfortunately, I may have to ask the commish for a job in the future and I don't want to burn any bridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowdog Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 Only one owner voted on my side. This is the guy you want to send a generous trade offer to. Then bail. Your commish sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 I am getting pissed for you. E-mail the league and ask for your money back. This just isn't fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelShaft Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 If I was in contentionfor a playoff spot, I would play out the season and then walk away. If not in contention, I would cut him a check today and walk away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pkillebr Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 If I was in contentionfor a playoff spot, I would play out the season and then walk away. If not in contention, I would cut him a check today and walk away. Yep, basically agree here. Not much you can do except pick a new league next year. It sounds like you pretty much got shafted. The part of it that I don't like is that he went back and reversed your score on a game that happened before. If he has penalized other people in weeks past, why weren't you penalized at the time? It really looks like you're being targeted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoog Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Threaten to take the league to small claims court for breech of contract. If you are willing to go through with it and can make the time, it is kind of fun to mess with people like that. What inspired me to start my own league (16-years ago and I folded it two years ago. A good commish is like a part-time job) was a very similar situation, but back before the internet and eMail was a big part of FF. I was given a copy of the rules that were two years old and was told that a current copy would be "in the mail" (which I never got and weekly results were either eMailed or faxed on an excel spread sheet). This league was $500, so I wasn't about to take crap. This commish charged 33% of league fees for running the league, time and materials = $1,800 and he didn't pay the entry, all of which I thought was excessive). Well, a bunch of BS surfaced at the draft, which I documented and let slide and then again a couple times during the year. Then I had a couple games forfeited (one to the Commish and one to his best friend) for some roster rule that was "new" and "I should have known" (though never provided the current rules). Even with the crappy W/L record, I also never seemed to get my waiver/injury picks and these players mysteriously always ended up on the stronger team's rosters. In retrospect, it was a stooooopid league and a rip off, but I was new, didn't know any better, love football and wanted to get involved with FF. The Commish would also pull mid-year rules changes (interesting how he had won four out of five years ) during the year. I would get a call and he would say, "This is a new rule, I called the other owners and there is already a majority, so I'm just letting you know". Finally, I got hold of 6 of the other 10 owners and found out that they got the same type of calls as well, though none of them ever thought to challenge the commish. Seven is a majority only when they get a chance to vote! Needless to say, only the Commish and his three best friends were ever consulted for these rule changes. So I filed in small claims court ($20 if I remember right) for fraud and breech of contract and included in the filing that the current rules be documented and notarized in written form and copies of all past years rules be presented and notarized as well. I sued for $1,000, for league fees and damages. I claimed lost time and associated costs for my mags and materials to prepare for the draft and running my team. I also included the cost of my newspaper since the only time of year I got it was during the NFL season. Back then, you would get up on Monday and Tuesday morning and figure out your score on the pot while taking your morning dump. Life was simpler in a way back then for FF players and the "ten minute ticker" had meaning like nothing else during that crappy nationally televised game that you didn't want to see and had no players starting in (also pre-Sunday Ticket. What primative times they were indeed! ) . Anyway... Once the Commish and the other owners received their summons, I promptly was refunded my 500 bucks and an extra 100 clams for my trouble. Because none of them wanted to waste their time, we "settled out of court". Needless to say, I was NOT invited back to that league the following year. Soooo, I wrote up an extensive set of league rules (13 pages in the first edition) that was continuously modified over the years (mostly additions for things that came up that had never happened before). I even submitted sweeping changes in terms of restrictions that made the league more competitive (but really hurt my stacked team, but a fair Commish puts the league FIRST). We had a great 10 year run, but as I said, it all got to be too much like a job. Now, I stick to a couple of BOTH homer leagues and do four live drafts in Yahoo! just to keep the "skills" sharp (and yes... free leagues still suck!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatman Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 This is an easy one to answer. Since the commish doesn't publish weekly newsletters, since the commish is a first time commish and doesn't realize how important it is to communicate to the league, since I don't sit in the same building, and since I don't know most of the other owners, I never found out about it until it happened to me. I didn't know what I didn't know....if you know what I mean. What is amazing to me is it happened on three separate occasions before mine. While the other owners agreed to the punishment since they were aware of the rule, but had "forgotten" it, it seems logical to me that any commish would think, "hmmmmm, three owners have made the same mistake....maybe I should send an email to the league making them aware of this common mistake so they can avoid it in the future". Of course, now I'll know to call the commish every week to ask if there's been any happenings going on in the league that I should be aware of. While it would be good to send this email to the commish, to see his response, unfortunately, I may have to ask the commish for a job in the future and I don't want to burn any bridges. While I think the situation sucks and is completely unfair, good idea to keep the bigger picture in mind. Sounds like this league is more of a networking tool than a big money deal, so keep this thing back pocket for use later on - next time you're having a beer with this group, tell them how they're screwing over the new guy - wink, wink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I think this brings up an interesting question... would you ever want to be in a FF league with someone who is or could be your boss? Since conflicts can and do arise each year, it sounds like it might be a lot more trouble than its worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I think this brings up an interesting question... would you ever want to be in a FF league with someone who is or could be your boss? My boss at the time introduced me to FF. Initially I was giving him all the help before I started on my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Scorp Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I think this brings up an interesting question... would you ever want to be in a FF league with someone who is or could be your boss? Since conflicts can and do arise each year, it sounds like it might be a lot more trouble than its worth. +1 While it is a friendly "game" too much can happen to cause some ill will. I would never want to be in a position of asking someone for a job after an incident like this came up. side note: If he is a fudge pop orifice as the commish of this league do you really want to work for him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_bone65 Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 This league is bush league no doubt. Who had the 2nd highest score for the week and do they get anything now? Time to dump this league and move on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonedaddies Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 It sounds like you need to pay the 11th floor a visit......pack as many guns, clips and amo as you can into your trenchcoat, bust onto the floor and just start shooting away........Walley in accounting, he's a deadman, that rat-bastage Billy from A/P that has made 2 bad trades, blast his a*s.....just toss a grenade into Marketing and take out Steve, Doug and Stacy.....STACY....why did we ever let that b*tch in the league in the first place!!! Then you finally find the commish....curled up under his desk....pleading like the little girl that he is......stating that he will not change any more rules the rest of the year....offering you the number one pick next year........and BAM, BAM, BAM.......Oh shiat my boss just walked in..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I think this brings up an interesting question... would you ever want to be in a FF league with someone who is or could be your boss? Since conflicts can and do arise each year, it sounds like it might be a lot more trouble than its worth. I'm in a work league this year but at the last year's draft (one I wasn't a part of) one of the two director's in the league took his 5th round pick and when it came back to him for round 6 he asked if he could put his 5th pick back in the pool and take two players. Someone disagreed and his response was "why do you have to be an a-hole about this?" Another director had to intervene and the draft continued. I wasn't there for that but was ready in the draft this year for something along those lines but it didn't happen. FF at work is certainly a minefield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muggsy Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 if you're going to be in a workplace FF league, the "boss' should NEVER be the commish, it puts everyone in a bad position. If the 'boss" needs to be involved, make him the treasurer and let him hold the $$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LayLow Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 he is a jerk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.