Bill Swerski Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 (edited) If he wins the MVP, it will be very hard to keep him out of Canton. If he wins the MVP, it'll only be his third MVP-caliber season (and only fourth above-average season) in 10 years in the NFL. Given that he was either injured or a below-average QB for those other six seasons, it'll be pretty easy to keep him out of Canton. If Warner gets into the HOF because of three outstanding seasons, Drew Brees will be a shoo-in and Daunte Culpepper will be almost as deserving. Edited November 17, 2008 by Bill Swerski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 If he wins the MVP, it'll only be his third MVP-caliber season (and only fourth above-average season) in 10 years in the NFL. Given that he was either injured or a below-average QB for those other six seasons, it'll be pretty easy to keep him out of Canton. Only a 3 time MVP winner? Only? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 (edited) Only a 3 time MVP winner? Only? How many MVP-caliber seasons have Peyton, Brady, Steve Young, and John Elway had? A lot more than Warner. Edited November 17, 2008 by Bill Swerski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Warner is in, unquestionably. The numbers, the MVP's, the Super Bowls, that passer rating, etc. Not only great seasons, but some of the best that we have ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Warner is in, unquestionably. If he had been an AVERAGE QB over those remaining six seasons, I'd agree. But this isn't the 1960s and Gale Sayers flash-in-the-pan types tend to not get inducted. Warner is a great guy both on and off the field and I wish him nothing but the best. But he's CLEARLY not in the same tier as Peyton and Brady. He's more in the Brees and pre-ACL-tear Culpepper category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Not you. Them. Isn't that from a movie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 How many MVP-caliber seasons have Peyton, Brady, Steve Young, and John Elway had? A lot more than Warner. What does an MVP Caliber Trophy look like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 He will be on the border but I think the knocks are exactly what Swerski is saying. You cannot discredit that. That is what the HOF is built off of. During Kurt Warner's career, many years he was not even close to the best QB in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 (edited) I take back what I said about him being in NO DOUBT. There is no doubt that there IS DOUBT. I want him in but I say he won't get it. Cardinals need to win the Super Bowl with him being the MVP and the SB MVP. Edited November 17, 2008 by Goopster24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 He will be on the border but I think the knocks are exactly what Swerski is saying. You cannot discredit that. That is what the HOF is built off of. During Kurt Warner's career, many years he was not even close to the best QB in the league. No but still 3 MVP's is hard to dismiss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 What does an MVP Caliber Trophy look like I agree the hardware counts more than not having the hardware I think Warner gets in and he deserves too if he does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 How many MVP-caliber seasons have Peyton, Brady, Steve Young, and John Elway had? A lot more than Warner. He has not won his 3rd MVP yet, but let's say he does. Regardless of the # of players who have had MVP caliber seasons, how many 3 time MVP Winners have there ever been at the qb position, and of those how many are not or will not be in Canton? If Warner wins the MVP this year, he will be a 3 Time League MVP, a Super Bowl MVP and have a career Passer Rating of nearly 95. I would say his career numbers make him a strong candidate for the HOF. And just for the record, no one has decided that his career will end when this seasopn is done, so he may not be done compiling his career stats just yet. Especially if we look at his character. He has achieved his success despite remaining incredibly humble and unselfish and staying centered. The overall package that is Kurt Warner is just the type of player/person that the NFL SHOULD put in the HOF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 (edited) No but still 3 MVP's is hard to dismiss. Everybody with two is in the HOF, correct? Edited November 17, 2008 by Goopster24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 If he had been an AVERAGE QB over those remaining six seasons, I'd agree. But this isn't the 1960s and Gale Sayers flash-in-the-pan types tend to not get inducted. Warner is a great guy both on and off the field and I wish him nothing but the best. But he's CLEARLY not in the same tier as Peyton and Brady. He's more in the Brees and pre-ACL-tear Culpepper category. The Brees category?? Brees has only had a handful of good seasons as well, but of those seasons, NONE were like any of the great seasons Warner had. Plus Brees has never won a Super Bowl, let alone multiple. I will agree that Warner is not up there with Brady and Manning, but he has certainly done much more in his career than Brees has. There is just no way that Warner hasn't done enough. What he lacks in longevity, he makes up for three-fold with awards, accolades and titles. The YPG and passer rating alone get him close to the door. The MVPs and Super Bowls make him an absolute lock. Bet the farm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 The Brees category?? Brees has only had a handful of good seasons as well, but of those seasons, NONE were like any of the great seasons Warner had. Brees also hasn't had the offensive talent around him that Warner had in STL. Plus Brees has never won a Super Bowl Neither did Marino or Fouts. What's your point? let alone multiple. Warner didn't win MUILTIPLE Super Bowls. In fact, he got absolutely punked by NE's defense in SB 36. The pick that he threw to Ty Law cost them the game. There is just no way that Warner hasn't done enough. What he lacks in longevity, he makes up for three-fold with awards, accolades and titles. You people are putting WAY too much stock into MVP awards. If Peyton didn't go off and throw 49 TDs in 2004, Culpepper would've won an MVP. Hell, he was a legitimate MVP candidate in 2000 as well. Does that make him HOF material? When was anybody even talking about Warner as Canton material prior to this season? And now he's suddenly a "lock" because three subjectively-based awards is some sort of a magic milestone? That doesn't make any sense. IMO, the only "award" that really means anything is his ring. And one ring isn't enough to give him an Aikman-like pass for numerous mediocre (or worse) seasons that add up to Gannon-like career numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Brees also hasn't had the offensive talent around him that Warner had in STL. Neither did Marino or Fouts. What's your point? Warner didn't win MUILTIPLE Super Bowls. In fact, he got absolutely punked by NE's defense in SB 36. The pick that he threw to Ty Law cost them the game. You people are putting WAY too much stock into MVP awards. If Peyton didn't go off and throw 49 TDs in 2004, Culpepper would've won an MVP. Hell, he was a legitimate MVP candidate in 2000 as well. Does that make him HOF material? When was anybody even talking about Warner as Canton material prior to this season? And now he's suddenly a "lock" because three subjectively-based awards is some sort of a magic milestone? That doesn't make any sense. IMO, the only "award" that really means anything is his ring. And one ring isn't enough to give him an Aikman-like pass for numerous mediocre (or worse) seasons that add up to Gannon-like career numbers. I'm so proud to be an Oregonian right now. Your arguments are very compelling. However, I still think your wrong. Sincerely, 97401 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I'm so proud to be an Oregonian right now. Your arguments are very compelling. Sarcasm aside, they have merit. Seriously, did ANYBODY even consider Warner a legitimate HOF candidate last year? So what's the difference this year, besides potentially winning a third MVP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Sarcasm aside, they have merit. Seriously, did ANYBODY even consider Warner a legitimate HOF candidate last year? So what's the difference this year, besides potentially winning a third MVP? Ummmmm, raises hand. I always thought he was a no-brainer. I didn't know there were people that thought he wouldn't make it. How can you not have the quarterback from the best era of offense we have ever seen!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Ummmmm, raises hand. I always thought he was a no-brainer. I didn't know there were people that thought he wouldn't make it. How can you not have the quarterback from the best era of offense we have ever seen!? Niceeee argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 (edited) What does an MVP Caliber Trophy look like Man that wasn't easy but after hitting google enough i was able to find where all those QBs keep their MVP Caliber Trophies... here they are: LINK Edited November 17, 2008 by keggerz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Ok. So he's 3rd ALL TIME in passer rating, and will be second as soon as Romo drops below him. Has the most yards per game All TIme. He is statistically the most accurate QB to ever live. He has the top two yardage totals in Super Bowl games. He will be at least top 20 in every relevant statistical category by the time he retires. Super Bowl Champ and most likely at least 3 MVPs. Undoubtedly the best QB in the league for a 3-year span, one span which saw his team put up 500 points three years in a row. He also is second on the single season yards list (more than Brady had last year). I'm not sure there is an exact criteria for the hall...but that is pretty much it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 (edited) He has not won his 3rd MVP yet, but let's say he does. Regardless of the # of players who have had MVP caliber seasons, how many 3 time MVP Winners have there ever been at the qb position, and of those how many are not or will not be in Canton? If Warner wins the MVP this year, he will be a 3 Time League MVP, a Super Bowl MVP and have a career Passer Rating of nearly 95. I would say his career numbers make him a strong candidate for the HOF. And just for the record, no one has decided that his career will end when this seasopn is done, so he may not be done compiling his career stats just yet. Especially if we look at his character. He has achieved his success despite remaining incredibly humble and unselfish and staying centered. The overall package that is Kurt Warner is just the type of player/person that the NFL SHOULD put in the HOF. +1 inb4thumbs Edited November 17, 2008 by WaterMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 How can you not have the quarterback from the best era of offense we have ever seen!? You mean Peyton Manning? The Manning-era Colts offense is MUCH more accomplished overall than the Warner/Bulger-era Rams offense. Ok. So he's 3rd ALL TIME in passer rating Isn't Chad Pennington somewhere in the Top 5 of that category as well? While we all remember the accolades, many of us are forgetting five years of crappiness... 2002: 7 GS, 1431 yds, 3 TDs, 11 INTs 2003: 2 GS, 365 yds, 1 TD, 1 INT 2004: 9 GS, 2054 yds, 6 TDs, 4 INTs 2005: 10 GS, 2054 yds, 11 TDs, 9 INTs 2006: 7 GS, 1377 yds, 6 TDs, 5 INTs That's HALF of Warner's professional career. Is he worthy of strong consideration? Sure. But a lock with those numbers? No way. If he's automatically in, so are Terrell Davis and Jamal Lewis. This is all about perspective. What if Warner didn't get hurt in 2000, won League MVP, the Rams sitll lost to the Saints in the playoffs, and then he retired this past summer? Would we all be writing his induction speech right now? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBowden1220 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 (edited) Sarcasm aside, they have merit. Seriously, did ANYBODY even consider Warner a legitimate HOF candidate last year? So what's the difference this year, besides potentially winning a third MVP? I absolutely think there is some logic to your arguments. But logical or not, HOF voters in all sports pay attention to hardware. Statistically, Aikman is not a HOFer, but winning 3 SBs made him a shoo-in. Bradshaw and Namath also had fairly mediocre stats, even for their eras. MVP may not be 1:1 comparable in terms of importance to Super Bowl trophies, but joining Favre as the only 3 time MVP makes him a lock in my opinion. He also has a good shot to finish with > 30,000 passing yards and > 200 TDs, which are not to shabby, and he has that incredible 300+ yard games stat. I think voters are likely to give him the benefit of the doubt for years he wasn't "given a chance," and he only has one bad year where he was given a legit shot at starting, the injury-shortened 2002 season. I also think it's a bit disingenuous to say he has only had 3 good seasons -- 2000 and 2007 were also both decent years statistically and 2004-2005 were not awful despite limited duty. I think all of this outweighs the negatives of being in great situations and having a limited number of HOF quality years. Edited November 17, 2008 by CBowden1220 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishFreak Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 There is no way Kurt Warner is a HOF. He's a system QB who has excelled throwing the ball to HOF caliber WR's (Bruce, Holt, Fitzgerald and maybe Boldin). He only has 172 career TD passes and has been a turn over machine. His 300+ yard games are quite impressive but you have to show more consistency to be a HOFer in my book. He's super accurate and corageous in the pocket but 3 1/2 great seasons out of 12 shouldn't punch a ticket to Canton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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