Kurt Warner

[gogo2146]

That's the beauty of it, he ran the Gauntlet - Arena / Europe / NFL

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I traded for him two weeks ago with a owner that owns Bree's since then I have been blowing people out I also have Boldin with him.

 

It is a big time run with him.

 

My son goes to school with his boy in Scottsdale. Kurt is one of the most humble NFL players I have ever meet. Good for him it's been a long road back for to regain his MVP status. I hope he ends up in the HOF!

[Bill Swerski]

I absolutely think there is some logic to your arguments. But logical or not, HOF voters in all sports pay attention to hardware. Statistically, Aikman is not a HOFer, but winning 3 SBs made him a shoo-in.

 

I didn't agree with Aikman getting in on the first ballot. Then again, morans like Peter King are on the selection committee, so it's not terribly surprising in that regard. Aikman's probably the best argument for Warner getting in. I suppose it'll come down to the value of subjective MVP awards vs. Lombardi Trophies, and it'll be interesting to see what happens.

 

The one other thing that Warner has going for him is the likability factor. If anybody deserves "extra credit" for being an all-around good guy, it's him.

[Square]

Maybe this is a stupid question, but does Warner's crappy seasons compare to Favre's? I don't really have a horse in this race (although Warner has saved my team after foolishly taking D. Anderson).

[Bengal Mania]

Maybe this is a stupid question, but does Warner's crappy seasons compare to Favre's?

[Bengal Mania]

The one other thing that Warner has going for him is the likability factor.

 

....and a hawt wife! Hair all spikey n' chit.....Ooooh yeah!

[Pope Flick]

There is no way Kurt Warner is a HOF. He's a system QB who has excelled throwing the ball to HOF caliber WR's (Bruce, Holt, Fitzgerald and maybe Boldin). He only has 172 career TD passes and has been a turn over machine. His 300+ yard games are quite impressive but you have to show more consistency to be a HOFer in my book. He's super accurate and corageous in the pocket but 3 1/2 great seasons out of 12 shouldn't punch a ticket to Canton.

 

 

You don't know what you're talking about. Superbowl ring. Super Bowl MVP. Multi League MVP awards.

 

And he did it faster than anyone else in the Hall. By a longshot. And I haven't even gotten to his 300 yard games yet. The dude is the Gayle Sayers of QBs. And he basically got in on his 22 TD year.

 

He's a lock.

[Bengal Mania]

Aikman's probably the best argument for Warner getting in.

 

And also the only argument why Kenny Anderson is NOT in.

[CBowden1220]

Favre's worst seasons are probably better than Warner's worst, because he's never had serious competition for starting position and he's never missed a lot of time for injuries. Although I guess the season where Favre threw 29 picks competes.

 

In many ways, Favre and Warner seem to be polar opposites in terms of career. Favre is an overrated quarterback because he's been consistently plugging along for so long, and has piled up gaudy career numbers doing so. Don't get me wrong, Favre is a HOFer for sure, but he is too erratic and throws far too many picks to be considered the greatest of all time. Warner, OTOH, is overrated because he has seen limited action in ideal situations, but has generally been brilliant in those circumstances.

[Bill Swerski]

Favre's worst seasons are probably better than Warner's worst, because he's never had serious competition for starting position and he's never missed a lot of time for injuries. Although I guess the season where Favre threw 29 picks competes.

 

In many ways, Favre and Warner seem to be polar opposites in terms of career. Favre is an overrated quarterback because he's been consistently plugging along for so long, and has piled up gaudy career numbers doing so. Don't get me wrong, Favre is a HOFer for sure, but he is too erratic and throws far too many picks to be considered the greatest of all time. Warner, OTOH, is overrated because he has seen limited action in ideal situations, but has generally been brilliant in those circumstances.

 

No offense to Warner, but he can't hold Favre's jockstrap. The people that rip on Favre for all the picks he's thrown don't remember what an absolute bad-ass he was back in the mid- and late-90's. Favre was a better QB in his prime than Warner was in his, and didn't need Marshall Faulk, Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, Orlando Pace, or a domed stadium to get there.

 

One could make the argument that Favre is the best QB in the history of the game. That same argument couldn't be made for Warner.

[FishFreak]

No offense to Warner, but he can't hold Favre's jockstrap. The people that rip on Favre for all the picks he's thrown don't remember what an absolute bad-ass he was back in the mid- and late-90's. Favre was a better QB in his prime than Warner was in his, and didn't need Marshall Faulk, Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, Orlando Pace, or a domed stadium to get there.

 

One could make the argument that Favre is the best QB in the history of the game. That same argument couldn't be made for Warner.

 

Ditto. Favre is a HOF firt time ballot lock period. There is NO comparison between him and Warner. Warner is a flash in the pan that benefited from pass happy offensive systems with HOF stud WR's. If Warner gets in, you open the door for a lot of good but not great QB's to get in the HOF that don't deserve consideration.

[tazinib1]

Ditto. Favre is a HOF firt time ballot lock period. There is NO comparison between him and Warner. Warner is a flash in the pan that benefited from pass happy offensive systems with HOF stud WR's. If Warner gets in, you open the door for a lot of good but not great QB's to get in the HOF that don't deserve consideration.

 

I'm not even gonna touch on the Favre vs. Warner debate. Its blasphemy. The argument, is if Warner gets another MVP title. Good QB's don't own 3. HOF QB's do.

[wildcat2334]

No offense to Warner, but he can't hold Favre's jockstrap. The people that rip on Favre for all the picks he's thrown don't remember what an absolute bad-ass he was back in the mid- and late-90's. Favre was a better QB in his prime than Warner was in his, and didn't need Marshall Faulk, Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, Orlando Pace, or a domed stadium to get there.

 

One could make the argument that Favre is the best QB in the history of the game. That same argument couldn't be made for Warner.

 

 

you all are nuts - both Favre and Warner are great in their own ways - you guys are not giving Kurt his due

 

I think ole Brett has had some pretty good WR and TE in his days with GB......- not to mention Mike Holmgren steering the ship offensively. They are different QB's, and IMO Warner is in line with Marino as one of the most accurate and pure passers ever. Warner was as dominant as Favre in his 2-3 year run with STL - and now with AZ, which to me is key and with 2-3 more good years in him will be a lock. He got a late start, similar to Warren Moon, and like Moon he doesn't look to be slowing down any and his numbers are ridiculous in the right system.

[Bill Swerski]

I'll say this about Warner: He's definitely NOT just a product of the system. He's been absolutely money in critical situations several times during his career. His go-ahead TD pass to Proehl in the '99 NFC Championship game was an absolutely perfect throw in extremely good coverage. I hesitate to believe that Trent Green or any other good-but-not-great QB could've made that throw.

[Bill Swerski]

you all are nuts - both Favre and Warner are great in their own ways - you guys are not giving Kurt his due

 

I think ole Brett has had some pretty good WR and TE in his days with GB

 

So, you're comparing Antonio Freeman, Andre Rison, Bill Schroeder, Javon Walker, Donald Driver, Mark Chmura, Dorsey Levens, and Ahman Green to future HOFers like Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, and Marshall Faulk? Seriously? It's not like Kurt's in a bad situation in Arizona with Boldin and Fitz, either. I would've liked to see Kurt throw 30+ TDs to the likes of Bill Schroeder and Antonio Freeman in Lambeau in November and December.

[MTSuper7]

People have foggy memories of Favre's three straight MVP seasons in the 90s. And you can't compare Antonio Freeman to Larry Fitzgerald, Robert Brooks to Torry Holt... Anyone who argues that Favre had nearly the WR threats as Warner needs to pass the dutchie to the left hand side.

 

But let me ask this... Given either QB in the prime of his career, if you had to win just one game, who would you rather have?

 

(pause to think, but not too hard now...)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Favre.

[Jrick35]

Ditto. Favre is a HOF firt time ballot lock period. There is NO comparison between him and Warner. Warner is a flash in the pan that benefited from pass happy offensive systems with HOF stud WR's. If Warner gets in, you open the door for a lot of good but not great QB's to get in the HOF that don't deserve consideration.

 

Favre is a lock no doubt but if Warner were to win a 3rd MVP he would join Favre as the only 2 players in history to be the League MVP 3 times. That is pretty heady stuff.

 

But comparing Warner to Favre is pointless when discussing Warners HOF credentials. One does not have to achieve what Favre has achieved to make the HOF. Each players careers are considered for their own merits, not for how they stack up against someone else's career.

 

Maybe you don't think Warner will make it to Canton, that's fine, but to consider him a "Flash in the pan" is ludicrous.

He would be a flash in the pan who:

is second to Steve Young for career passer rating @ 94.5 (min 1500 attempts)

is statistically the most accurate passer in NFL History by completing 65.7% of his passes

is a 2 Time League MVP

is a Super Bowl MVP

 

And if he were to win the League MVP a third time this year his third award would come 7 years after his second, meaning his skills have lasted well into his career. These stats are not indicative of a flash in the pan.

[wildcat2334]

So, you're comparing Antonio Freeman, Andre Rison, Bill Schroeder, Javon Walker, Donald Driver, Mark Chmura, Dorsey Levens, and Ahman Green to future HOFers like Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, and Marshall Faulk? Seriously? It's not like Kurt's in a bad situation in Arizona with Boldin and Fitz, either. I would've liked to see Kurt throw 30+ TDs to the likes of Bill Schroeder and Antonio Freeman in Lambeau in November and December.

 

 

uh, not that he needs to be better than Favre to get in the HOF - but you can't deny Favre had some pretty nice weapons at WR - Sharpe, Freeman, Rison, Walker, Driver, all were damn good WR's in their own right.

[FishFreak]

This is essentially the agrument being made for Warner. Because he's won a SB and had two MVP's he should be in the HOF. He's only had 3 1/2 good seasons (one was great). So if a QB plays for four seasons, retires and does what Warner has done thus far should he be in the HOF? I'm sorry but a HOFer shows consistent, very good to great numbers over the long haul usually 8+ years. Then and only then should you be considered one of the great ones and get HOF consideration. If he keeps this up consistently for 3 more years or so then he has more ammunition.

 

How many qb's would kill to throw to guys like Bruce, Holt, Fitz and Boldin for 95% of their career and be in pass happy offenses? You have to take that into account when looking at his numbers. They are inflated big time and his TD to INT ratio ain't that great.

[MTSuper7]

I'm sorry but a HOFer shows consistent, very good to great numbers over the long haul usually 8+ years. Then and only then should you be considered one of the great ones and get HOF consideration.

 

Using this argument, Gayle Sayers would not be in the HOF.

[Ramhock]

I thought that the Rams made the correct decision in letting him go, because it seemed to me the concussions had taken their toll. He was slow to get rid of the ball which causes all kinds of bad things to happen. Seemed they made the right decision with his play in NY, but he seems like his ole self, last year & this. Good for him. And the receiver argument is old, 9er QBs threw to Rice . . . yada, yada. He has earned a chance to make the HOF.

[FishFreak]

Using this argument, Gayle Sayers would not be in the HOF.

 

A rare exception that is quite frankly from a different generation of 60's and 70's. I'm assuming Sayers was a stud talent that at the very least played at a high level consistently for 5 years straight. It's always difficult to compare players from different era's anyway so don't go there....

 

Just looking at his stats alone I wouldn't have voted him into the HOF. But then again I never saw him play and am not familiar with players of his time and how dominant he was during his short career.

[Bill Swerski]

uh, not that he needs to be better than Favre to get in the HOF - but you can't deny Favre had some pretty nice weapons at WR - Sharpe, Freeman, Rison, Walker, Driver, all were damn good WR's in their own right.

 

Sterling Sharpe was the only one of that bunch who falls into the "great" category, but he was out of the NFL after '94, and Brett continued to put up eye-popping numbers despite it. Rison was a heck of a talent, but only played in GB for the latter half of '96. So, throughout most of Favre's dominant period ('94-'98), Antonio Freeman was clearly his #1 with Chmura and Robert Brooks also getting a lot of balls. While Freeman was very good back before he got that massive contract, there was a massive drop-off in talent after that. And nobody will confuse Freeman with Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, Randy Moss, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, etc. Favre did a heck of a lot without a bonafide superstar back in his prime.

 

A rare exception that is quite frankly from a different generation of 60's and 70's. I'm assuming Sayers was a stud talent that at the very least played at a high level consistently for 5 years straight. It's always difficult to compare players from different era's anyway so don't go there....

 

You're correct about Sayers. That's never going to happen again, at least not with a running back. If so, Terrell Davis would be a first-ballot HOFer.

[Sunday Couch Potatoe]

If he shouldn't be in the HOF then why is everyone comparing him to the guys that will be first ballot HOF's. Of course those guys are absolutely gonna get in. But that doesn't mean he isn't deserving of it as well. Maybe not first time up for it but you've been to multiple SB's and one one while winning MVP of the season and SB MVP plus another MVP and poss. another this year. I think the argument for outways the argument against him getting in.

[Rovers]

If you did not see Sayers play, you might think him unworthy of the HoF. But if you did, you would not question it. He was the most elusive football player I have ever seen, and it's not even close. He is much like Koufax... short careers, but if you saw them play, no doubt they deserve the Hall inductions they got.

 

As for Warner, it wasn't until this year that I realised just how good he's been. Had he gotten into the NFL out of college, instead of the circuitous route he had to take, his numbers could be downright gaudy. I lean towards wanting him in Canton, especially if he wins another MVP.

[muck]

To me, the argument against boils down to the fact that looking at the first four columns in his career stats list makes him look like a journeyman (season / team / games played / games started).

 

However, its everything to the right of those four columns, plus the section titled 'career accomplishments' that make all the difference in the world.

 

IMO, the probability that Warner gets into the HOF increase with each of these bullet points that he accomplishes throughout the rest of his career:

* Finishes the 2008 season like he's started it.

* ARI wins one game in the playoffs.

* ARI makes the 2008-2009 Super Bowl.

* ARI wins the 2008-2009 Super Bowl.

* Plays the 2009 sesaon at a similar level as he did in 2008 ... or ... ARI has about as much success as they did in 2008 (assuming they made a good run in the playoffs in 2008).

* Finishes with more than 200 career passing TDs

* Finishes with more than 30,000 career passing yards

* Finishes with a career QB rating >95

* Wins another NFL MVP award

* Wins another SB

* Wins another SB MVP

 

.....................

 

If he gets hurt next week and Lienart finishes out the season and ARI gets knocked out of the playoffs, Warner will have a VERY hard time getting into Canton. Even moreso if Warner doesn't have a great 2009 in ARI (or a good one with a great playoff run).