Brandon marshall vs Asomaugh

[LayLow]

I don't know what to tell you. Personally, I live by the "never sit your studs" philosophy. Marshall and Asomugha have gone head to head before and they know each other well. There's a good chance Raider's D will be on the field over 50% of the game, and Asomugha will wear out. Also, the Denver run game isn't looking too stellar; maybe a Denver homer could chime in, but I don't think it's unreasonable to assume BM could get a ballpark of 15 looks from Cutler. (Steve Smith was targeted 6 times by Delhome if that helps to add any perspective)

 

There's all kinds of arguments you can make for either side playing well. Ultimately it will come down to how Ryan calls the plays.

Hopefully he calls the plays behind a huge mug of beer

[kpholmes]

not to start a WDIS thread...

But does both Marshall and Royal get shut-out in a home game vs the Raiders?

 

Royal has a very good chance of torching Chris Johnson and Stanford Routt.

They'll leave Gibril playing over the top to help the weak CBs, but he isn't the best cover safety - he'll make the tackle and stop the YAC.

[LayLow]

exactly...I don't care if Asomaugh and Deion in his prime are both covering Marshall...I refuse to sit him, period...

Very true...but would you play royal too if you had them both?

[Avernus]

Very true...but would you play royal too if you had them both?

 

I do have them both in another league and am playing them both....

[theprofessor]

He is no where near TO.

 

I hope you're saying he's on the + side of TO, because Brandon Marshall surpassed TO as a receiver 18 weeks ago

[LayLow]

I do have them both in another league and am playing them both....

I'm with you avernus. Lets meet back here after this week to see how it worked out.

[SheikYerbuti]

I'm with you avernus. Lets meet back here after this week to have a tickle fight.

 

[Avernus]

 

 

[kpholmes]

I'm with you avernus. Lets meet back here after this week to have a tickle fight.

 

 

[LayLow]

Tickle fight..............YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[Avernus]

oh, I thought he said....pickle fight

 

[Gunther]

oh, I thought he said....pickle fight

 

 

I mean...

[MrTed46]

I hope you're saying he's on the + side of TO, because Brandon Marshall surpassed TO as a receiver 18 weeks ago

 

I'll ignore that to save your credibility.

[Marauders11]

In a PPR scoring format Marshall has put up double digit points in 23 of his last 25 games.

 

Last year vs. Oakland he only put up 13 (5-82), and 12 (6-67), but still talk about consistency from a generally inconsistent position.

 

In a non PPR format it's ( as always) about scoring, and TD's for a WR are nearly impossible to predict

 

- so at least you know he's going to get looks (he's the most targeted WR in the league even though he missed the first week- averages 12 per game, and never less than 7 this year), decent yardage, and has as good a chance of grabbing a TD as anyone else on the field in all reality.

 

I think people are making too much of the whole "match-up" thing for a WR- it's not like a RB vs. a tough run defense- with a WR you can move him around, put him in motion, stack one side of the field, etc. etc.

 

bottom line here is that you start Marshall every week no matter what as long as he's healthy and starting .

[kpholmes]

I think people are making too much of the whole "match-up" thing for a WR- it's not like a RB vs. a tough run defense- with a WR you can move him around, put him in motion, stack one side of the field, etc. etc.

I respected everything you had to say up until this.

Matchups are completely relevant for WR's when defenses specifically match up a shutdown corner on a #1 receiver.

 

You use numbers to make your arguments for Marshall when they are in his favor (which you did adequately btw) , yet choose to ignore the numbers when they are against him.

If Asomugha is truly 100% manned up on Marshall, motion and bunches won't help him get open.

[csrulz16]

I don't know what to tell you. Personally, I live by the "never sit your studs" philosophy. Marshall and Asomugha have gone head to head before and they know each other well. There's a good chance Raider's D will be on the field over 50% of the game, and Asomugha will wear out. Also, the Denver run game isn't looking too stellar; maybe a Denver homer could chime in, but I don't think it's unreasonable to assume BM could get a ballpark of 15 looks from Cutler. (Steve Smith was targeted 6 times by Delhome if that helps to add any perspective)

 

There's all kinds of arguments you can make for either side playing well. Ultimately it will come down to how Ryan calls the plays.

I don't want to stir anything up but I just read this on Rotoworld:

 

"Brandon Marshall says the Broncos will just "play ball" and not alter their game plan to avoid Raiders CB Nnamdi Asomugha.

He will likely draw Asomugha in most two-receiver sets, but Marshall moves around enough that he'll see a fair amount of Chris Johnson and Stanford Routt as well. Asomugha stays at RCB all game and Marshall will play plenty of RWR. Asomugha also missed a tackle that sprung Ted Ginn's 40-yard TD in Week 11 and there is no AFC receiver better after the catch than Marshall."

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=3653

[Avernus]

anyone else notice Skeletor doing a Parcells on Asomaugh with his recent quote?

 

he's trying to soften him up with praise.....

 

whenever Parcells does this, he has the uncanny ability to make that player softer during that game...

[keggerz]

I read where Inside the NFL said that thru week 9(I think) Asomugah had only been thrown at like 12 times...I think that Marshall will still get his but Asomugah is the best shut down corner in the league...some might put champ higher than him and that argument can be made but no matter what Asomugah is one of the best in the NFL.

[detlef]

In a PPR scoring format Marshall has put up double digit points in 23 of his last 25 games.

 

Last year vs. Oakland he only put up 13 (5-82), and 12 (6-67), but still talk about consistency from a generally inconsistent position.

 

In a non PPR format it's ( as always) about scoring, and TD's for a WR are nearly impossible to predict

 

- so at least you know he's going to get looks (he's the most targeted WR in the league even though he missed the first week- averages 12 per game, and never less than 7 this year), decent yardage, and has as good a chance of grabbing a TD as anyone else on the field in all reality.

 

I think people are making too much of the whole "match-up" thing for a WR- it's not like a RB vs. a tough run defense- with a WR you can move him around, put him in motion, stack one side of the field, etc. etc.

 

bottom line here is that you start Marshall every week no matter what as long as he's healthy and starting .

That's great for PPR. In standard non-PPR leagues that award typical yardage bonuses, he's 8th in points per game. That certainly makes him a very, very solid starter and a WR1, but does not put him in some super-elite auto start level. Consider that, on average, he's scoring barely two more points per game than Lance Moore. That tells me that you have to at least consider sitting him in favor of another guy (provided the dude isn't a total stiff) if 1) Marshall is playing against a team that has completely shut down everyone's #1 WR and the other guy has a favorable match-up.

[kpholmes]

I don't want to stir anything up but I just read this on Rotoworld:

 

"Brandon Marshall says the Broncos will just "play ball" and not alter their game plan to avoid Raiders CB Nnamdi Asomugha.

He will likely draw Asomugha in most two-receiver sets, but Marshall moves around enough that he'll see a fair amount of Chris Johnson and Stanford Routt as well. Asomugha stays at RCB all game and Marshall will play plenty of RWR. Asomugha also missed a tackle that sprung Ted Ginn's 40-yard TD in Week 11 and there is no AFC receiver better after the catch than Marshall."

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=3653

Like I said, it all will depend on how Ryan plays him.

A lot of fantasy analysts haven't watched enough Raider football (who can blame them?) to realize that Ryan has stopped locking Asomugha into RCB and base their claims off of Ryan's traditional schemes. IMO the numbers speak for themselves, if Smith, Cotchery and Mason were splitting time between multiple corners, don't you think they'd each have more than one catch?

Edited November 20, 2008 by kpholmes

[Marauders11]

I respected everything you had to say up until this.

Matchups are completely relevant for WR's when defenses specifically match up a shutdown corner on a #1 receiver.

 

You use numbers to make your arguments for Marshall when they are in his favor (which you did adequately btw) , yet choose to ignore the numbers when they are against him.

If Asomugha is truly 100% manned up on Marshall, motion and bunches won't help him get open.

 

what numbers are against him that I chose to ignore?

[kpholmes]

what numbers are against him that I chose to ignore?

Asomugha's play against #1 WR's since week 6...

[Marauders11]

Asomugha's play against #1 WR's since week 6...

 

ok

 

All I'm saying is:

 

Marshall is a stud.

Denver throws it a ton.

No WR has more targets than Marshall.

All of my leagues are PPR- I'll take 12-13 points with potential for more any day.

No way I sit Marshall in favor of guys like Matt Jones, or Breaston, Driver, or any other 2-3 WR option.

I'll take my chances with him and Cutler anytime.

 

Nobody can run on Baltimore right, 20+ games or whatever without allowing a 100 yard rusher, etc. etc. Match-Up says you sit Jacobs last week right? Well he went off. If you have a stud player you roll with him regardless of match-up and hope for the best.

[darin3]

I don't want to stir anything up but I just read this on Rotoworld:

 

"Brandon Marshall says the Broncos will just "play ball" and not alter their game plan to avoid Raiders CB Nnamdi Asomugha.

He will likely draw Asomugha in most two-receiver sets, but Marshall moves around enough that he'll see a fair amount of Chris Johnson and Stanford Routt as well. Asomugha stays at RCB all game and Marshall will play plenty of RWR. Asomugha also missed a tackle that sprung Ted Ginn's 40-yard TD in Week 11 and there is no AFC receiver better after the catch than Marshall."

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=3653

So wait, you "encourage me to watch some of their games" after I quote reliable fantasy resources that showed Asomugha in various CB slots, and yet now you're relying on some online information to suit your gain?

 

I "encourage" whoever wrote this for Rotoworld to watch the games. Ted Ginn's TD wasn't a pass play, so this last comment is completely moot.

[kpholmes]

ok

 

All I'm saying is:

 

Marshall is a stud.

Denver throws it a ton.

No WR has more targets than Marshall.

All of my leagues are PPR- I'll take 12-13 points with potential for more any day.

No way I sit Marshall in favor of guys like Matt Jones, or Breaston, Driver, or any other 2-3 WR option.

I'll take my chances with him and Cutler anytime.

 

Nobody can run on Baltimore right, 20+ games or whatever without allowing a 100 yard rusher, etc. etc. Match-Up says you sit Jacobs last week right? Well he went off. If you have a stud player you roll with him regardless of match-up and hope for the best.

 

I never said you should sit Marshall; as previously stated in this thread, I definitely feel you should always start your studs. In addition to that, I'm sorry your backups are Matt Jones and Breaston.

 

I was simply saying that I disagree with your concept of WR/CB matchups, and that your arguments based on numbers in favor of Marshall neglected to examine the numbers in favor of Asomugha.