Belichick and the Patriots are something else!

[Doc Holliday]

You got one right, although you spelled it wrong.

 

Correct answer: New England Patriots, Bill Belichick

 

Only team and head coach that are proven cheaters. Only ones. Wow, how embarrassing.

 

I don't think it's a big deal, but it obviously still chafes a lot of their fans. I guess I can understand that. It must suck knowing that your team can only succeed through cheating.

 

If you want to acknowlege your team's cheating, enter some lame defensive post below:

 

 

I am a Lions ( ) fan you silly Bastaducci. I am unbiased on what I am saying...and you?

[gspot]

I very much dislike the Patriots. More than my dislike for the Patriots however, is my dislike for Tom Brady.

 

Since Brady went down, I have wished nothing but success for Cassel to demonstrate to the NFL's fans what a mediocre quarterback can do in a great system.

Does this mean I don't think Brady is a good quarterback? Obviously not, he's proved over and over he is talented when throwing the ball and making decisions and more than capable of running an offense. However, it's the system that has made him a great, future Hall of Fame QB.

 

While Belicheck is and always will be a cheater, his system on both sides of the ball is solid.

 

The real question is this: If you had to start a franchise from scratch right now, which of the two would you want to build your team around? All-time backup and slightly proven Matt Cassel at the ripe age of 26, or All-World Tom Brady coming off of a knee injury at the age of 31?

 

 

Yes, the system that had a losing record when Bledsoe was the QB, with a team that was widely criticized for having a horrible offensive line. Brady shows up and the team goes on a run and the offensive line and "system" is great! Tons of sacks, no time in the pocket, low scoring system with no quality WR's and the system is great when Brady comes in.

 

Now, you have Moss, Welker, and good WR and you still claim its the system.

 

What Brady did in a system that was horrible, with no offensive line, and no better than average WR for the last 5 years is amazing. What Cassell is doing is with Moss, much better WR.

 

Stop comparing apples to oranges!

Edited November 26, 2008 by gspot

[Hugh 0ne]

Yes, the system that had a losing record when Bledsoe was the QB, with a team that was widely criticized for having a horrible offensive line. Brady shows up and the team goes on a run and the offensive line and "system" is great! Tons of sacks, no time in the pocket, low scoring system with no quality WR's and the system is great when Brady comes in.

 

Now, you have Moss, Welker, and good WR and you still claim its the system.

 

What Brady did in a system that was horrible, with no offensive line, and no better than average WR for the last 5 years is amazing. What Cassell is doing is with Moss, much better WR.

 

Stop comparing apples to oranges!

 

As much as it pains me to say it, I agree with this assessment whole-heartedly. Anyone who thinks Brady is succesful because of his system is kookoo for Cocopuffs, with all dues respect to kpholmes who is a very knowledgeable football guy.

[Caveman_Nick]

As much as it pains me to say it, I agree with this assessment whole-heartedly. Anyone who thinks Brady is succesful because of his system is kookoo for Cocopuffs, with all dues respect to kpholmes who is a very knowledgeable football guy.

 

 

That's gonna leave a mark. On the inside.

[Hugh 0ne]

That's gonna leave a mark. On the inside.

 

+1.

[Jrick35]

Yes, the system that had a losing record when Bledsoe was the QB, with a team that was widely criticized for having a horrible offensive line. Brady shows up and the team goes on a run and the offensive line and "system" is great! Tons of sacks, no time in the pocket, low scoring system with no quality WR's and the system is great when Brady comes in.

 

Now, you have Moss, Welker, and good WR and you still claim its the system.

 

What Brady did in a system that was horrible, with no offensive line, and no better than average WR for the last 5 years is amazing. What Cassell is doing is with Moss, much better WR.

 

Stop comparing apples to oranges!

 

You really kind of made my point. The current Patriots organization has taken a team that was horrible and built it into a perennial contender. Bear in mind, when you talk about Brady being such a great QB, which he is, I totally agree. But it was the Patriots organization that drafted him (in what the 6th rd?) and had him in place as their #2 to go to when Bledsoe went down.

 

And as good as Brady is, and as mediocre as their WR's used to be, what about their running game? Right now they have the 7th ranked Rushing attack in the league, they have pulled that off with smoke & mirrors.

 

And just look at the list of RB's they have been successful with. Every year they epitomize the RBBC. This year we have seen Lamont Jordan, Sammy Morris, Kevin Faulk, BenJarvis Green-Ellis oh yeah and their starter at the beginning of the year was Lawrence Maroney. And they have been doing this ever since Brady has been the QB and they are continuing to do it since Brady went down.

 

And over the years they have had major injuries on defense to guys like Bruschi, Harrison & Seymour but they always manage to plug a guy in and keep on winning.

 

And to get back to the WR's they use to have a stable of ok guys and they have over the last couple of years managed to acquire Moss, Welker & Gaffney at WR and Watson at TE so they went from ok to a top flight WR corp. Another testament to the organization.

 

They lose the MOST clutch PK of all time and pick up some guy named Gostkowski and never look back.

 

And now the one injury that would stop most teams, they lose their GREAT QB in the 1st game, plug in Cassell and they are still competing.

 

My post was not about Brady not being great, he is.

It was not about Belichick being the greatest HC ever, he is not.

It was not even about the Patriots having the best Head Office in the league.

 

It was about the combination of the team, coaching & organization and their ability to assess talent, fill needs and overcome adversity to remain competitive for a prolonged number of years in an era of professional football that is not conducive to staying competitive for any length of time.

 

They are an amazing Organization.

[kpholmes]

Yes, the system that had a losing record when Bledsoe was the QB, with a team that was widely criticized for having a horrible offensive line. Brady shows up and the team goes on a run and the offensive line and "system" is great! Tons of sacks, no time in the pocket, low scoring system with no quality WR's and the system is great when Brady comes in.

 

Now, you have Moss, Welker, and good WR and you still claim its the system.

 

What Brady did in a system that was horrible, with no offensive line, and no better than average WR for the last 5 years is amazing. What Cassell is doing is with Moss, much better WR.

 

Stop comparing apples to oranges!

 

 

As much as it pains me to say it, I agree with this assessment whole-heartedly. Anyone who thinks Brady is succesful because of his system is kookoo for Cocopuffs, with all dues respect to kpholmes who is a very knowledgeable football guy.

 

To respond to these statements, I'll refer to my initial quote...

Does this mean I don't think Brady is a good quarterback? Obviously not, he's proved over and over he is talented when throwing the ball and making decisions and more than capable of running an offense. However, it's the system that has made him a great, future Hall of Fame QB.

 

I'm not denying Brady is a good quarterback, all I'm saying is playing in Belicheck's system allowed him to become a great QB.

Every QB in this league has a certain type of system they excel in that completely utilizes their abilities. Bledsoe did not click well with Belicheck's system. A perfect example is Vince Young in Tennessee: Great quarterback, great runner, but just doesn't play well in Fisher's system.

Can you imagine Steve Young having the same amount of success outside of the West Coast Offense? Probably not. Does that mean he is any less talented at QB? Of course not.

 

I'm not taking away from Tom Brady's talent. He's a great QB.

All I'm saying is that I hoped Cassel would come in and play well in the system to show that Belicheck's offense has been good to Brady.

You're right though, with the addition of Welker and Moss it's rather a mute point.

[G.K.Trey]

To respond to these statements, I'll refer to my initial quote...

 

 

I'm not denying Brady is a good quarterback, all I'm saying is playing in Belicheck's system allowed him to become a great QB.

Every QB in this league has a certain type of system they excel in that completely utilizes their abilities. Bledsoe did not click well with Belicheck's system. A perfect example is Vince Young in Tennessee: Great quarterback, great runner, but just doesn't play well in Fisher's system.

Can you imagine Steve Young having the same amount of success outside of the West Coast Offense? Probably not. Does that mean he is any less talented at QB? Of course not.

 

I'm not taking away from Tom Brady's talent. He's a great QB.

All I'm saying is that I hoped Cassel would come in and play well in the system to show that Belicheck's offense has been good to Brady.

You're right though, with the addition of Welker and Moss it's rather a mute point.

 

Sorry , but you lose all crediblility with a comment like that.

[cre8tiff]

Herm Edwards is a powerful motivator of men.

 

He's a poor NFL coach, but he's an honest man and a powerful motivator.

 

He is one of several hundred men who have been the head coach of an NFL team.

 

He is not a proven cheater. There has only been one of those in the history of professional football. Only one.

 

His name is Bill Belichick, and he coaches the New England Patriots.

 

Think about that. Hundreds and hundreds of NFL coaches. All motivated by the same goal. All subject to the same rules. All given access to the same technology.

 

Only ONE - in the history of the game - is a proven cheater.

 

I'm not speculating, I'm not hypthesizing, I KNOW. There is documented evidence. The Patriots cheat. You can't say that about any other team in the NFL.

 

It makes me laugh.

 

Doesn't this remind you of Dr.Seuss?

 

Meet Coach Billy Belichick,

a cheating cheater man;

To keep his team a-winning,

he cheats as best he can.

 

Though other coaches bear the name,

of cheating cheater prick,

Only one was ever caught,

That cheating bastard Belichick.

Edited November 26, 2008 by cre8tiff

[pig devilz]

It was about the combination of the team, coaching & organization and their ability to assess talent, fill needs and overcome adversity to remain competitive for a prolonged number of years in an era of professional football that is not conducive to staying competitive for any length of time.

 

i agree with much of what you said......but this quote is a testament to Belichick, Pioli and others.

they know how to pick them and then get that player to play to his strengths, getting the most out of him.

one of the highest criteria for a great coach/organization.

if they are wrong (Chad Jackson) they cut them loose. simple.

 

also, it is possible for the specific talents of any given player (Brady) to dictate the formulation

of a system. in Brady's case I believe this is true. you can't put it on one or the other, Brady or Belichick.

Bledsoe didn't fail in this system, they didn't play this system with him as QB, as they play it now.

 

personally, i think this year is Belichicks best coaching year. all the naysayers who said 'anybody could

coach a team with that talent', should look at the IR list and the weekly in actives. he still has them in

playoff contention and not an easy game on any teams schedule.....

[Bill Swerski]

Sorry , but you lose all crediblility with a comment like that.

 

Agreed about Vince. He may have the legs to be a playmaker in the NFL, but his inability to overcome adversity ("The fans are booing me!" ) is a recipe for disaster in the NFL. I also strongly disagree that Fisher's system is the problem. Vince is pretty much a carbon-copy of a young Steve McNair (good scrambler/playmaker, but unpolished passer), and it was Fisher's system that allowed for McNair to develop into an MVP-caliber QB. The current Titans team is also very similar in makeup to the '99 team that went to the SB (strong defense and offensive emphasis on running the ball). Hell, I can't think of a single better offensive system for Vince than Fisher's.

 

As for Steve Young, you can't teach the accuracy, scrambling ability, or heart that he had. I'm pretty sure that, like Rich Gannon, he would've eventually been very successful somewhere.

[Doc Holliday]

Agreed about Vince. He may have the legs to be a playmaker in the NFL, but his inability to overcome adversity ("The fans are booing me!" ) is a recipe for disaster in the NFL. I also strongly disagree that Fisher's system is the problem. Vince is pretty much a carbon-copy of a young Steve McNair (good scrambler/playmaker, but unpolished passer), and it was Fisher's system that allowed for McNair to develop into an MVP-caliber QB. The current Titans team is also very similar in makeup to the '99 team that went to the SB (strong defense and offensive emphasis on running the ball). Hell, I can't think of a single better offensive system for Vince than Fisher's.

 

As for Steve Young, you can't teach the accuracy, scrambling ability, or heart that he had. I'm pretty sure that, like Rich Gannon, he would've eventually been very successful somewhere.

 

 

Speaking of Steve Young he is a great example of how a system can make or break a guy. Young went from a 8 TD-13 INT season in 1986 to a 10 touchdown 0 interception season coming in for Montana in 1987. matter of fact the 9'ers started Deberg,Montana,Young and then Garcia with all having record breaking seasons of some sort. football is the ultimate system game which is what makes it so fun to me. noone can do what they do without the coaches and teammates.

[Bill Swerski]

Speaking of Steve Young he is a great example of how a system can make or break a guy.

 

With apologies to the '70s and '80s Saints teams, there are few better "bad system" examples than the '70s '80s Bucs teams.

[Big John]

With apologies to the '70s and '80s Saints teams, there are few better "bad system" examples than the '70s '80s Bucs teams.

With an exception of 1979-81.