Fairest way to break a 3 way tie

[Rockerbraves]

As it looks now the Big 12 South is headed for a three way tie. Big 12 Conference tie breaker says the divisional representative for the conference championship should be the team with the highest BCS rankings. You agree or disagree that this is the fairest way to settle a tie-breaker?

 

Personally I don't mind using the BCS rankings, however maybe it should be used to determine the least worthy team, then use head to head between the top two teams. That way head to head still means something.

[Kid Cid]

As it looks now the Big 12 South is headed for a three way tie. Big 12 Conference tie breaker says the divisional representative for the conference championship should be the team with the highest BCS rankings. You agree or disagree that this is the fairest way to settle a tie-breaker?

 

Personally I don't mind using the BCS rankings, however maybe it should be used to determine the least worthy team, then use head to head between the top two teams. That way head to head still means something.

The only thing the BCS is good for is to wipe my ass. The fairest way would be by what the teams did on the field. Points for and against tallied up along with yardage gained and given up. Highest number gets the nod.

[Rockerbraves]

The only thing the BCS is good for is to wipe my ass. The fairest way would be by what the teams did on the field. Points for and against tallied up along with yardage gained and given up. Highest number gets the nod.

In competitive baseball they only use runs given up. Not exactly sure why, but guess it stops teams from running up the score.

[detlef]

If it's "good enough" to determine 2 teams out of as many as 10 deserving candidates to hoist the final trophy, I can't see why this should be a problem. It makes perfectly good sense since the Big 12 wants to improve their chances of getting a guy in the final game.

 

Honestly, until they just throw the whole mess away, I don't see much reason in trying to scrutinize the method they use to determine less important champions.

[godtomsatan]

If it's "good enough" to determine 2 teams out of as many as 10 deserving candidates to hoist the final trophy, I can't see why this should be a problem. It makes perfectly good sense since the Big 12 wants to improve their chances of getting a guy in the final game.

 

Honestly, until they just throw the whole mess away, I don't see much reason in trying to scrutinize the method they use to determine less important champions.

 

That's the key thing right there. It will settle itself out somehow, just watch. All this wrangling will be for naught.

[BS Miscreant]

Personally I don't mind using the BCS rankings, however maybe it should be used to determine the least worthy team, then use head to head between the top two teams. That way head to head still means something.

This is pretty good in terms of fairness and not a bad idea at all but...

 

If it's "good enough" to determine 2 teams out of as many as 10 deserving candidates to hoist the final trophy, I can't see why this should be a problem. It makes perfectly good sense since the Big 12 wants to improve their chances of getting a guy in the final game.

...this, I'm sure is the reasoning behind the current method and within it's context is a pretty good idea as well.

[BS Miscreant]

If it's "good enough" to determine 2 teams out of as many as 10 deserving candidates to hoist the final trophy, I can't see why this should be a problem. It makes perfectly good sense since the Big 12 wants to improve their chances of getting a guy in the final game.

 

Honestly, until they just throw the whole mess away, I don't see much reason in trying to scrutinize the method they use to determine less important champions.

That's the key thing right there. It will settle itself out somehow, just watch. All this wrangling will be for naught.

Sure, the Big XII will get what they want by having the conference represented in the big game but that's not the real point here. The fairness issue is still mightily in play if OU gets in having been beaten by Texas since they will quite likely be separated by no more than one spot in the rankings. Now, of course, if you're suggesting that Texas will end up in the Big XII CG then sure it will have worked out, more or less.

[Sgt Ryan]

a 3 way tie in my opinion should be determined by margin of victory in the games involving the 3 teams games against one another, but if someone wants to do points scored, or points given up, or SOS. In every case who do you think wins out.

 

OU is (+34) in thee games vs Texas (-10), Tech (+44)

Texas is (+ 4) in the games with OU(+10), Tech (-6)

Tech is (- 38) in the games with Texas (+6), OU (-44)

 

OU scored 100 pts and gave up 66

Texas scored 78 pts and gave up 74

Tech scored 60 pts and gave up 98

 

 

Texas beat OU 45-35

Tech beat Texas 39-33

OU beat Tech - 65-21

 

 

There is no scenerio in a 3 way tie Texas should be ahead of OU. None. OU had a tougher schedule, better pt differential in the games played amonst the 3, gave up the fewest pts in those games, scored the most points in those games. You name it, OU is dominate to Texas in ever 3 way tie scenerio. What people was to do is throw Tech out of the mix, and how can you do that, when Tech is the team that beat Texas. I dont agree the BCS final should determine who goes. Even if it gets OU there. That is too subjective in my opinion. There should be a way to determine this fairly between those 3 teams. Leaving one out, then saying Texas beat OU head to head, means they go is a complete joke. Tech beat Texas, and I see why they want to forget about that. But the facts involved are OU dominated the 1st half vs Texas, yet only led by 1 pt, as OU gave up a special teams TD, and 3 1st downs when they held Texas on 3rd down due to penalty. OU led for 75 % of that game, and lost their middle linebacker who was dominate in the first half, and that is where Texas scored their points late, was against the backup LB over the middle in the red zone. Im not making excuses for OU, they lost a game they should have won. But lets not makes excuses for Texas who was never really in that Tech game until the 4th quarter, when a bomb TD was caught because a defender fell down, and a return for TD on special teams got them back in the game. Plus Tech WON the game. And OU beat a team Texas couldnt by 44 pts, and is certainly the better team right now.

[GWPFFL BrianW]

Fairest way is what these teams all agreed to a long time ago. There should be no whining at all by any of these teams.

[Sgt Ryan]

Fairest way is what these teams all agreed to a long time ago. There should be no whining at all by any of these teams.

 

 

Im certainly not whining. I think OU gets in as they should. But Im saying this should be looked at in the future.

[GWPFFL BrianW]

Im certainly not whining. I think OU gets in as they should. But Im saying this should be looked at in the future.

 

Oh absolutely. I'm just saying that if its Oklahoma or Texas, to me its 6 to one, half dozen to the other. Texas beat Oklahoma, but Oklahoma completely anihilated the team that beat Texas and were ranked #2 at the time.

 

And btw, even if I did think you were whining, I think its ok for fans to whine about things like that, but if I see coaches whine or players, then that's a problem. These are all things that are agreed too by every team in the conference. It's shouldn't be a shock to any coach or administrator.

[Sgt Ryan]

One more thing, if OU happens to lose in Stillwater. Tech is going to the big 12 Champ game, not Texas. Which is another reason why Texas wants to just dismiss Tech, they dont want to live up to that loss and want to just focus on the game in Dallas.

 

So Texas needs OU to win or they are out, why should an OU win help texas more than it helps OU get in, in this 3 way tie scenerio.

Edited November 26, 2008 by Sgt Ryan

[GWPFFL BrianW]

One more thing, if OU happens to lose in Stillwater. Tech is going to the big 12 Champ game, not Texas. Which is another reason why Texas wants to just dismiss Tech, they dont want to live up to that loss and want to just focus on the game in Dallas.

 

So Texas needs OU to win or they are out, why should an OU win help texas more than it helps OU get in, in this 3 way tie scenerio.

 

Yep that is the irony of everything as far as I'm concerned. If you look at Conferences and forget about the BCS for a minute, you could conceivablly have 2 Top 5 teams (USC and Texas) that didn't even win their conference (the automatic berth) without the conference champion ranked ahead of them. I know that has happened before with 1 conference, but 2 conferences? I'd have to look that stat up.

[godtomsatan]

Sure, the Big XII will get what they want by having the conference represented in the big game but that's not the real point here.

 

Actually, whether you like it or not, that is the point.

[Ziachild007]

I think the team with the strangest coach should get the nod.

[polksalet]

I think the team with the strangest coach should get the nod.

 

I''see your head coach pirate boy and raise him with a jack hammer throat dc.

 

 

[BS Miscreant]

One more thing, if OU happens to lose in Stillwater. Tech is going to the big 12 Champ game, not Texas. Which is another reason why Texas wants to just dismiss Tech, they dont want to live up to that loss and want to just focus on the game in Dallas.

 

So Texas needs OU to win or they are out, why should an OU win help texas more than it helps OU get in, in this 3 way tie scenerio.

That's an excellent point. It is ludicrous that Texas is potentially better off by OU winning this weekend. Of course an OU win may well end the Longhorns title shot depending on the voters and how that win effects the computers but still... Messed up stuff...

 

Yep that is the irony of everything as far as I'm concerned. If you look at Conferences and forget about the BCS for a minute, you could conceivablly have 2 Top 5 teams (USC and Texas) that didn't even win their conference (the automatic berth) without the conference champion ranked ahead of them. I know that has happened before with 1 conference, but 2 conferences? I'd have to look that stat up.

If OU/Texas go to the Big XII CCG and lose then there is a possiblity that USC and OU/Texas could play for the national championship. Some stuff would have to happen this week with certain SEC teams but it could happen.

 

Actually, whether you like it or not, that is the point.

No, the point of this post was fairness with regard to the teams involved, not the conference's interest. Real world? You have a point. In the context of this thread? No way.

[theprofessor]

The only thing the BCS is good for is to wipe my ass. The fairest way would be by what the teams did on the field. Points for and against tallied up along with yardage gained and given up. Highest number gets the nod.

 

You're kidding, right?

[theprofessor]

Yep that is the irony of everything as far as I'm concerned. If you look at Conferences and forget about the BCS for a minute, you could conceivablly have 2 Top 5 teams (USC and Texas) that didn't even win their conference (the automatic berth) without the conference champion ranked ahead of them. I know that has happened before with 1 conference, but 2 conferences? I'd have to look that stat up.

 

Oregon will beat Oregon State this weekend in Corvallis. SC will be the conference champion.

[godtomsatan]

No, the point of this post was fairness with regard to the teams involved, not the conference's interest. Real world? You have a point. In the context of this thread? No way.

 

I'm certainly not trying to pick an argument on this, first off, but the whole question of fairness is incredibly moot. We can go in circles all over the place with formulas and head-to-head scenarios that give an advantage to one side or the other, but we all know every method that says "Oklahoma" is going to be called into question by Longhorn fans, and every scenario that says "Texas" is going to be derided by Sooner fans. The final say is that of the conference, the group to which all the individual teams are beholden, and they say that if there's a three-way tie, and they all went 1-1 against each other, then the team with the highest BCS ranking goes. Frankly, that's as fair as it might get.

[Kid Cid]

You're kidding, right?

 

No in the least. Onlly big, humiliating wins seems to count for anything in college football so it only seems right that more big, humiliating wins than others in the conference should garner you the championship.

[Rockerbraves]

Fairest way is what these teams all agreed to a long time ago. There should be no whining at all by any of these teams.

Great point.

 

If you are going to have true competition everyone must live & die with the rules agreed to during the competition even if the rules are deemed unfair or even silly. A great example would be in golf where a questionable but "agreed to rule" altered golf championship history.

 

If you don't know the story, here's the CliffsNotes version: On April 14, 1968 -- his 45th birthday -- De Vicenzo entered the final round of the Masters two strokes off the lead. But the reigning British Open champion played some of the best golf of his life that Sunday, firing a 7-under 65 to finish at 277 through four rounds, extending the tournament to an 18-hole playoff between him and Bob Goalby the next day.

 

Or so he thought.

 

On the 17th hole, De Vicenzo made a birdie 3, but playing partner Tommy Aaron, who was keeping his opponent's scorecard, put down a 4. That alone shouldn't have destroyed his chances at the green jacket … as long as he had found and corrected the mistake prior to signing the scorecard. Instead, De Vicenzo got caught up in the hubbub and hullaballoo of the moment. He signed the incorrect scorecard, meaning he had to take the higher score at that hole, giving him a 66 rather than the 65 he actually shot. And giving the Masters title to Goalby.

 

In 2003, English journeyman Mark Roe was disqualified after shooting 67 in the third round of the British Open. Both he and Jesper Parnevik were disqualified because they forgot to exchange scorecards before they teed off, meaning they marked their own cards with the other player's scores. Roe would have gone into the final round only two strokes off the lead.

[theeohiostate]

Oregon will beat Oregon State this weekend in Corvallis. SC will be the conference champion.

 

 

I hope your correct. That would send the Bucks to a BCS Bowl to face possiby Texas. Great rubber match, teams being 1-1 H2H in last 4 years.

Edited November 27, 2008 by theeohiostate

[BS Miscreant]

No, the point of this post was fairness with regard to the teams involved, not the conference's interest. Real world? You have a point. In the context of this thread? No way.

I'm certainly not trying to pick an argument on this, first off, but the whole question of fairness is incredibly moot. We can go in circles all over the place with formulas and head-to-head scenarios that give an advantage to one side or the other, but we all know every method that says "Oklahoma" is going to be called into question by Longhorn fans, and every scenario that says "Texas" is going to be derided by Sooner fans. The final say is that of the conference, the group to which all the individual teams are beholden, and they say that if there's a three-way tie, and they all went 1-1 against each other, then the team with the highest BCS ranking goes. Frankly, that's as fair as it might get.

I wasn't disagreeing with that particular point rather pointing out that the point of the original post in this thread was to question the fairness of the method that the conference chose to employ. Maybe fairness is not the correct choice for making this judgement because like I say multiple times every year on these very boards, "If everyone knows the rules going in and they consent to play by them then they are fair". I suppose the issue here might be better approached using soundness or validity as opposed to fairness. Even then it's likely an impossible problem to solve but not a bad topic of conversation.

[GWPFFL BrianW]

Oregon will beat Oregon State this weekend in Corvallis. SC will be the conference champion.

 

I hope you're right as well as I think Penn State vs Oregon State would be an even bigger letdown match up than USC-Illinois was a year ago. At least that was a game that no one saw already. USC vs Penn State would be the ideal Rose Bowl. USC would be in a stronger position I feel to claim for a spot in the BCS NC being outright conference champions. It would also increase Iowa's odds of landing in a New Years Day Bowl if Ohio State gets a BCS bowl bid, so for purely selfish reasons, I'm pulling for the Ducks.

 

All of that said, Oregon State plays extremely well at home.