Seahawks21 Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 For those that aren't familiar, the NFL changed the illegal touching rule as it pertains to a forward pass first coming in contact with an ineligible receiver (a pass that hits a lineman in the back). It used to be where if a pass hit a lineman before it was touched by a defender or hit the ground, it would be a penalty on the offense. Now it isn't a penalty unless the offensive lineman makes an attempt to catch the ball. I'm not sure if he was the first or just the first that I happened to see, but in thursday's game, the Chargers attempted a screen pass. The play was read well, and the Oakland DE went over and covered the running back while the tackle tried to block him. The DE had the angle and couldn't be blocked well, and pretty much blew up the play. Since he wasn't out of the pocket and the play was well behind the line of scrimmage, Rivers couldn't throw it away legally, and didn't want to take the chance of having to throw the ball near the back, so Rivers then adjusted his motion and threw the ball (much too hard for a screen) right into his own lineman's back. Ball falls to the grond, play over. No penalty. Since this is so much of a copycat league, do we see more of this in the coming weeks? Will it actually become something that is coached? Will it ultimately lead to the rule being changed back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scourge Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 I think you're giving Rivers too much credit. I watched that play and didn't get the impression it was intentional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 I think you're giving Rivers too much credit. I watched that play and didn't get the impression it was intentional. I'm with Scourge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 I think you're giving Rivers too much credit. I watched that play and didn't get the impression it was intentional. +1 If he did indeed intend to purposely hit the lineman in the back, I seriously doubt it becomes the rage of all NFL QB's. First of all, he would have to know, in a split second, that that specific lineman was NOT an eligible receiver. Had he NOT been an eligible receiver and turned to catch the ball, it would have been a penalty. Secondly, as you stated, he was not outside the box, hence the non Illegal grounding violation. Way too much going on at one time to be a calculated play that could be repeated on a routine basis. I'm not so sure it was LUCKY, rather than a heads up play by Rivers. After 12 weeks of QB's getting sacked, we would have seen this already if it were. IMHO of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoog Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 LT was there as well, covered as you say, but right there. I don't know what Rivers "intended" to do, but the rule change does not preclude intentional grounding being called if that is the judgment of the ref. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROYALWITCHEESE Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 +1 If he did indeed intend to purposely hit the lineman in the back, I seriously doubt it becomes the rage of all NFL QB's. First of all, he would have to know, in a split second, that that specific lineman was NOT an eligible receiver. Had he NOT been an eligible receiver and turned to catch the ball, it would have been a penalty. Secondly, as you stated, he was not outside the box, hence the non Illegal grounding violation. Way too much going on at one time to be a calculated play that could be repeated on a routine basis. I'm not so sure it was LUCKY, rather than a heads up play by Rivers. After 12 weeks of QB's getting sacked, we would have seen this already if it were. IMHO of course. I'm sure an NFL QB knows where are his receivers are (at least where they are supposed to be). He also knows that none of his receivers are of the 300 pound variety. So I'm certain Rivers knew that was no elligible receiver, but that LT was supposed to be around. I'm also certain that NFL QBs can put the ball pretty much where they want--especially short passes. So I think he meant to hit the lineman, and knew his lineman wouldn't be foolish enough to try a catch a pass. Being "in the box" is a stipulation FOR intentional grounding. If anything that would have led the ref to throw the flag, not be a qualifier for him not throwing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 For those that aren't familiar, the NFL changed the illegal touching rule as it pertains to a forward pass first coming in contact with an ineligible receiver (a pass that hits a lineman in the back). It used to be where if a pass hit a lineman before it was touched by a defender or hit the ground, it would be a penalty on the offense. Now it isn't a penalty unless the offensive lineman makes an attempt to catch the ball. I'm not sure if he was the first or just the first that I happened to see, but in thursday's game, the Chargers attempted a screen pass. The play was read well, and the Oakland DE went over and covered the running back while the tackle tried to block him. The DE had the angle and couldn't be blocked well, and pretty much blew up the play. Since he wasn't out of the pocket and the play was well behind the line of scrimmage, Rivers couldn't throw it away legally, and didn't want to take the chance of having to throw the ball near the back, so Rivers then adjusted his motion and threw the ball (much too hard for a screen) right into his own lineman's back. Ball falls to the grond, play over. No penalty. Since this is so much of a copycat league, do we see more of this in the coming weeks? Will it actually become something that is coached? Will it ultimately lead to the rule being changed back? This must be a change of an earlier rule. I very much remember seeing this play more than once in the 80's. I think it's been changed away from that and you're saying it was changed back. I'd like to know the reasoning for the 'switch' since they certainly should have seen thi thing coming... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 I'm sure an NFL QB knows where are his receivers are (at least where they are supposed to be). He also knows that none of his receivers are of the 300 pound variety. So I'm certain Rivers knew that was no elligible receiver, but that LT was supposed to be around. I'm also certain that NFL QBs can put the ball pretty much where they want--especially short passes. So I think he meant to hit the lineman, and knew his lineman wouldn't be foolish enough to try a catch a pass. You must not own JaMarcass Russell in a dynasty league then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted December 7, 2008 Author Share Posted December 7, 2008 I think you're giving Rivers too much credit. I watched that play and didn't get the impression it was intentional. I've seen the play 30 times now. Rivers certainly meant to throw the ball at the lineman. If you look close enough,I think you can even tell the second he makes the decision. The body language gives it away. He just whipped the ball in disgust like he was giving up on the play and throwing the ball away. He threw the ball way too hard to be a screen, and it hit the lineman square between the numbers. Almost as soon as the ball left his hand Rivers turned around and just started to get ready for the next play. He didn't think anything of it. It sure looked like was in control of the situation. I went back right away to see if he did it on purpose and in my opinion he obviously did. I agree, there was no way Rivers came up with this whole plan in the heat of the moment. He either thought of this before, or was coached to do it. My best guess as to how this came about would be that the Chargers were running screens in practice and the scout team defense kept reading the play and Rivers kept getting caught with nowhere to throw the ball. He probably threw a pick or two and his coach said "next time, throw it at your tackle's back". He has probably practiced this throughout the season would be my bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 I've seen the play 30 times now. Rivers certainly meant to throw the ball at the lineman. If you look close enough,I think you can even tell the second he makes the decision. The body language gives it away. He just whipped the ball in disgust like he was giving up on the play and throwing the ball away. He threw the ball way too hard to be a screen, and it hit the lineman square between the numbers. Almost as soon as the ball left his hand Rivers turned around and just started to get ready for the next play. He didn't think anything of it. It sure looked like was in control of the situation. I went back right away to see if he did it on purpose and in my opinion he obviously did. I agree, there was no way Rivers came up with this whole plan in the heat of the moment. He either thought of this before, or was coached to do it. My best guess as to how this came about would be that the Chargers were running screens in practice and the scout team defense kept reading the play and Rivers kept getting caught with nowhere to throw the ball. He probably threw a pick or two and his coach said "next time, throw it at your tackle's back". He has probably practiced this throughout the season would be my bet. That makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Trick Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Sounds pretty dumb to do IMO, what if the ball bounces up into the air and is pick 6'd? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcmast Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Sounds pretty dumb to do IMO, what if the ball bounces up into the air and is pick 6'd? Agreed. A hard pass batween the numbers could easily bounce up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
policyvote Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Sounds pretty dumb to do IMO, what if the ball bounces up into the air and is pick 6'd? This was my first, second, and third thought. Peace policy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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