Dallas won't make the 2008 playoffs

[HowboutthemCowboys]

Poor coaching instills a lack of discipline.

 

 

 

I don't see any evidence of that.

 

 

 

Many people (including you) were saying that about Peyton for a long time. How'd what work out?

 

 

 

How long was Rich Gannon in the league before he became a Pro Bowl-caliber QB? And how many mediocre QBs were put ahead of him on the depth chart in the early and mid '90s? Romo looks a lot like a young Rich Gannon to me. Romo needs to find his Jon Gruden - somebody to develop him correctly and harness his talent.

 

 

 

What in the hell are you talking about? He hasn't even been a starter for three full seasons, and he's SUPPOSED to be racking up championships? My God, I can't imagine how you felt about Elway back in the early '90s.

 

Quarterbacks don't always develop into studs overnight. It wasn't until about 2003 or 2004 that Peyton stopped trying to force balls into double-coverage on 3rd down. And it wasn't until about 2006 that he learned to make throws on the run and to utilize his check-downs as frequently as he should. Steve Young was far from a stud in his first four or five years in the league.

 

 

 

Did the Raiders, Niners, and Broncos use a "wide-open" offense with Gannon, Young, and Elway? No.

 

I didn't say that the Cowboys need to run the Ravens or Titans offense. I said that they need a coaching staff who will force Romo to stop forcing balls into coverage. There's a big difference.

all very good points.

[Bronco Billy]

Many people (including you) were saying that about Peyton for a long time. How'd what work out?

 

 

 

How long was Rich Gannon in the league before he became a Pro Bowl-caliber QB? And how many mediocre QBs were put ahead of him on the depth chart in the early and mid '90s? Romo looks a lot like a young Rich Gannon to me.

 

Great excuses for this kid, Bill. So which is it, is he the next Manning or Gannon?

 

What in the hell are you talking about? He hasn't even been a starter for three full seasons, and he's SUPPOSED to be racking up championships? My God, I can't imagine how you felt about Elway back in the early '90s.

 

Quarterbacks don't always develop into studs overnight. It wasn't until about 2003 or 2004 that Peyton stopped trying to force balls into double-coverage on 3rd down. And it wasn't until about 2006 that he learned to make throws on the run and to utilize his check-downs as frequently as he should. Steve Young was far from a stud in his first four or five years in the league.

 

What in the hell am I talking about? Has he or has he not been in the league for almost 6 full seasons now? By this time, despite the fact that he hasn't started until 3 years ago, he should fully understand reading Ds, the speed of the game, how Ds try to diguise themselves, where the weakness in a coverage is. You act like he hasn't been in the pro game until he started in 2006. He's been in the game and has a very valuable opportunity of playing in OTAs, training camps, and preseasons, and then watching on the sidelines for 6 years now, and yet he still makes an awful lot of stupid mistakes - and he has yet to show that he can win even 1 playoff game even though he has been handed a stacked team. In fact, he's been a significant contributor in money losses.

 

Please stop comparing this kid to some of the greatest QBs ever to play the game. Elway took his team to the SB a few times without benefit of a running game & some really crappy WRs, before Shanahan stepped in and got him a couple of good WRs to go with a HoF TE and TD at RB. What do you think Elway could have done early in his career if Reeves weren't holding him back, he had Barber running the ball, and TO & Witten catching the ball? And Romo can't hold Manning's jockstrap.

 

You make some points in defending Romo, but then you wander into the assinine that smacks of sack swinging.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Bronco Billy

[piratesownninjas]

Great excuses for this kid, Bill. So which is it, is he the next Manning or Gannon?

 

 

 

What in the hell am I talking about? Has he or has he not been in the league for almost 6 full seasons now? By this time, despite the fact that he hasn't started until 3 years ago, he should fully understand reading Ds, the speed of the game, how Ds try to diguise themselves, where the weakness in a coverage is. You act like he hasn't been in the pro game until he started in 2006. He's been in the game and has a very valuable opportunity of playing in OTAs, training camps, and preseasons, and then watching on the sidelines for 6 years now, and yet he still makes an awful lot of stupid mistakes - and he has yet to show that he can win even 1 playoff game even though he has been handed a stacked team. In fact, he's been a significant contributor in money losses.

 

Please stop comparing this kid to some of the greatest QBs ever to play the game. Elway took his team to the SB a few times without benefit of a running game & some really crappy WRs, before Shanahan stepped in and got him a couple of good WRs to go with a HoF TE and TD at RB. What do you think Elway could have done early in his career if Reeves weren't holding him back, he had Barber running the ball, and TO & Witten catching the ball? And Romo can't hold Manning's jockstrap.

 

You make some points in defending Romo, but then you wander into the assinine that smacks of sack swinging.

Truth.

[Bill Swerski]

Great excuses for this kid, Bill. So which is it, is he the next Manning or Gannon?

 

If he's the next Gannon, the Cowboys will be in good shape.

 

Despite your best straw man argument, I never claimed that Romo would be the next Peyton Manning. That said, it'd be funny if he were, because that'd make two QBs that you prematurely labeled as "chokes."

 

What in the hell am I talking about? Has he or has he not been in the league for almost 6 full seasons now? By this time, despite the fact that he hasn't started until 3 years ago, he should fully understand reading Ds, the speed of the game, how Ds try to diguise themselves, where the weakness in a coverage is. You act like he hasn't been in the pro game until he started in 2006. He's been in the game and has a very valuable opportunity of playing in OTAs, training camps, and preseasons, and then watching on the sidelines for 6 years now, and yet he still makes an awful lot of stupid mistakes

 

Yeah, running the scout team offense and holding a clipboard on Sunday is almost the same as being the starter.

 

A lot of people in New York were calling for Eli's head last November because he had been making "stupid mistakes" for several years. The Chargers gave up on Brees after just under three seasons as a starter. How'd those situations work out?

 

You make some points in defending Romo, but then you wander into the assinine that smacks of sack swinging.

 

And your commentary is typical of the short-sighted, knee-jerk retardation that litters our sports media.

 

The guy hasn't even been a starter for three full seasons. Let's not call pretend that he's a 12th-year journeyman who has no chance in hell of improving his game. He has a way to go and will need better people around him, but he's wouldn't be the first QB who didn't peak until his 5th or 6th year as a starter.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Bill Swerski

[Bronco Billy]

Yeah, running the scout team offense and holding a clipboard on Sunday is almost the same as being the starter.

 

Well, thank you, Captain Obvious. That wasn't the point I was making, was it? Or is your position that Romo can't possibly learn anything or acquire experience unless he's starting NFL regular season games? You post this kind of crap as some kind of substitute for any kind of educated comment, and then in an instance of ultimate irony make a comment about retarded opinions.

 

Manning was a great, great QB before he ever won the biggest game ever - maybe the greatest ever. I freely admitted that then, and I admit it now. There was a point in his career when Manning couldn't come up with the big W though. I would guess that had he had Romo's current support system then, just like I did with your ridiculous Elway comparison, Manning would have won his first SB a lot sooner.

 

It is great fun when you make comments about retarded opinions and then in the same post make direct comparions of Romo to Manning. Please keep up your amazing efforts at such incredibly funny material.

[Bill Swerski]

Well, thank you, Captain Obvious. That wasn't the point I was making, was it? Or is your position that Romo can't possibly learn anything or acquire experience unless he's starting NFL regular season games? You post this kind of crap as some kind of substitute for any kind of educated comment, and then in an instance of ultimate irony make a comment about retarded opinions.

 

There was a point in his career when Manning couldn't come up with the big W though. I would guess that had he had Romo's current support system then, just like I did with your ridiculous Elway comparison, Manning would have won his first SB a lot sooner.

 

It is great fun when you make comments about retarded opinions and then in the same post make direct comparions of Romo to Manning. Please keep up your amazing efforts at such incredibly funny material.

 

I never equated Romo to Manning. And it's so typical of you to resort to this level of straw man stupidity when you can't back up your idiotic assertions.

 

You're a (the really bad word)ing idiot.

 

Manning was a great, great QB before he ever won the biggest game ever - maybe the greatest ever. I freely admitted that then, and I admit it now.

 

And you're completely full of manure as well. Piss off.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Bill Swerski

[Bronco Billy]

I never equated Romo to Manning. And it's so typical of you to resort to this level of straw man stupidity when you can't back up your idiotic assertions.

 

You're a (the really bad word)ing idiot.

 

 

 

And you're completely full of manure as well. Piss off.

 

Wow. Well thought out rebuttal, there, Bill. Ranks right up there with a monkey feces fight.

 

Oh, and nice circumvention of the language filter to emphasize your genius.

[CowboysDiehard]

I love this thread!

[Clubfoothead]

So we ran an option last night.

[whomper]

What did the T.B loss do to the scenarios ?

[keggerz]

What did the T.B loss do to the scenarios ?

i think the cowboys can now make the playoffs with a win @ Philly and another TB loss...but dont quote me on it...the other thing it did was put the eagles playoff hopes in their own hands...they win out (@Wash and VS Cowboys) and they make the playoffs

[Bill Swerski]

Wow. Well thought out rebuttal, there, Bill. Ranks right up there with a monkey feces fight.

 

Your unique combination of ignorance, arrogance, and dishonesty isn't deserving of a well-thought-out rebuttal. You emit monkey feces from your keyboard, you get monkey feces in return.

 

You make the unfortunate claim that Romo should be leading Dallas to championships at this point in his career, I bring up the point that even Elway (who is CLEARLY superior to Romo) wasn't leading Denver to championships until the mid/late '90s (because, you know, it's a TEAM sport), and you chide me for having the gall to compare Romo to Elway. Un-f'n-believable. I realize that your head is lodged so far up your ass and that your brain is lacking oxygen, but you DO understand that Dallas' problems go way beyond Romo, right?

 

Since you obviously don't understand the difference between "compare" and "equate," I'll use lesser quarterbacks like Eli Manning and Drew Brees to illustrate the point that condemning a QB with less than three full years as a starter to a career of mediocrity isn't a good idea.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Bill Swerski

[HowboutthemCowboys]

i think the cowboys can now make the playoffs with a win @ Philly and another TB loss...but dont quote me on it...the other thing it did was put the eagles playoff hopes in their own hands...they win out (@Wash and VS Cowboys) and they make the playoffs

I think if ATL loses today and Dallas wins next week they're in. :confused:

[The Vatican Hitsquad]

the biggest point made in the Swerski-Billy argument, bigger than the Richie Gannon comparison... how did bill get around the language filter?

[Chief Dick]

The cursing offends me.

 

Romo stinks right now.

 

Can't we all agree on THAT?

[The Vatican Hitsquad]

I bring up the point that even Elway (who is CLEARLY superior to Romo) wasn't leading Denver to championships until the mid/late '90s

To be fair, Elway carried Denver to 3 Superbowls in his early career before winning his 4th and 5th in the mid 90's with much better teams.

 

 

I'll use lesser quarterbacks like Eli Manning and Drew Brees to illustrate the point that condemning a QB with less than three full years as a starter to a career of mediocrity isn't a good idea.

And SD dumped Brees after he passed for 3159/3576 yrds and 24/27 TDs in his last two seasons in SD. They knew exactly what they had and dumped him anyway.

Edited December 21, 2008 by The Vatican Hitsquad

[Bill Swerski]

To be fair, Elway carried Denver to 3 Superbowls in his early career before winning his 4th and 5th in the mid 90's with much better teams.

 

Yes, but Billy said that Romo should be WINNING championships with this current Cowboys team. Because, you know, quarterbacks are solely responsible for winning Super Bowls.

 

And SD dumped Brees after he passed for 3159/3576 yrds and 24/27 TDs in his last two seasons in SD. They knew exactly what they had and dumped him anyway.

 

They drafted Rivers when Brees had barely a season and a half of starts under his belt. Talk about panicking. And, yep, they chose a question mark in Rivers over a proven Pro Bowler in early 2006.

 

Of course, this is the same organization that dumped Marty for Norv Turner, so I can't say I'm surprised.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Bill Swerski

[Grits and Shins]

Dallas laid a turd on Saturday ... got help on Sunday ... now they control their own destiny as they will win any tie-breaker with best conference record.

[WorstCoachingEver]

Dallas laid a turd on Saturday ... got help on Sunday ... now they control their own destiny as they will win any tie-breaker with best conference record.

 

Yep. With the TB loss, its a playoff game in Philly for Dallas: win and they are in since they own the tiebreaker with TB & would have a better conf record over CHI.

Edited December 22, 2008 by WorstCoachingEver

[no one]

Amazing day for the Cowboys!

[WorstCoachingEver]

They drafted Rivers when Brees had barely a season and a half of starts under his belt. Talk about panicking. And, yep, they chose a question mark in Rivers over a proven Pro Bowler in early 2006.

 

I'm sorry I have to jump in due to your ignorant comments across the thread. Brees tore up his shoulder in his last game with San Diego. Considering SD had Rivers who was already getting Top 5 draft pick money on the bench, I don't blame SD for parting ways with Brees. If you would recall, most teams would not even touch Brees with his injury. Miami was one team that passed over him for Culpepper (which turned out laughable) and he landed in New Orleans.

 

As for your earlier Romo comments, there is no excuse for Romo's play AND he should be leading this team to championships. He has been on this team long enough and it doesn't matter if he held the clipboard the first few seasons. 2nd/3rd stringers still sit in QB meetings, watch gamefilm, and practice with the team. What really pisses me off about him and the OC Jason Garrett is the following: It was reported last night, that Romo made an excuse that "we don't play Baltimore in our conference, so it took us 3 quarters to put something together." That is absolute B.S. That is not what a leader says after a loss in which he played liked crap. And what the hell has he and the O.C. been doing during the week if they can't figure out holes in a defense in order to create a gameplan. The only reason Dallas scored in the 4th quarter was b/c they abandoned the run, and Baltimore D played to give up the short plays.

 

Seriously, just give it up. Plus the is a thread about Dallas playoff chances.

[whomper]

Ita amazing that they still have a shot. It is what it is though. Philly in Philly is never easy. It will be a dogfight. In the beginning of the year I felt Dallas was good enough to be the team to beat for sure. They proved that that isnt the case . That being said they have weapons enough to catch lightning in a bottle I suppose. I hate their lack of toughness . They have been given another chance. If they squeeze in the slate gets wiped and anything can happen as we saw last year. I wont kid myself but I like the fact that we control our own again . We shall see

[Bill Swerski]

I'm sorry I have to jump in due to your ignorant comments across the thread.

 

Oooh, please educate me!

 

Brees tore up his shoulder in his last game with San Diego. Considering SD had Rivers who was already getting Top 5 draft pick money on the bench, I don't blame SD for parting ways with Brees. If you would recall, most teams would not even touch Brees with his injury.

 

Brees got $60 million form the Saints, $10 million of it guaranteed. That's pretty good money for a guy coming fresh off of a shoulder injury. Obviously, his physical showed that he was healthy.

 

But that's irrelevant to my point, which was the fact that the Chargers lost confidence in Brees way too early. Their lack of patience cost them a first-round pick and an eventual modest downgrade at QB.

 

As for your earlier Romo comments, there is no excuse for Romo's play

 

I never claimed that there was.

 

AND he should be leading this team to championships.

 

The Cowboys have a myriad of problems right now. It's not like Romo is the only one holding them back from Super Bowl glory.

 

He has been on this team long enough and it doesn't matter if he held the clipboard the first few seasons. 2nd/3rd stringers still sit in QB meetings, watch gamefilm, and practice with the team.

 

Hasselbeck wasn't a decent QB until his 3rd year in Seattle, which was his 6th overall year in the league in the same offense. Both GB and SEA used Holmgren's offense at that time, so he didn't even have to deal with a learning curve in Seattle. One can only learn so much from sitting in meetings and running the scout team. There's no substitute for live game experience.

 

There are exceptions, but it's not unusual for a QB to take three full years as a starter to mature and play at a high level. Again, look at the way that Eli turned it on last December, after almost four years of mediocre and erratic play.

 

What really pisses me off about him and the OC Jason Garrett is the following: It was reported last night, that Romo made an excuse that "we don't play Baltimore in our conference, so it took us 3 quarters to put something together." That is absolute B.S. That is not what a leader says after a loss in which he played liked crap. And what the hell has he and the O.C. been doing during the week if they can't figure out holes in a defense in order to create a gameplan.

 

Again, it comes back to leadership. Wade Phillips has no authority in the locker room and the inmates are running the asylum in Dallas right now. They're an unfocused and undisciplined team, so it's not exactly a shocker that they haven't won a playoff game in over a decade.

 

I agree that Romo has a long way to go in the maturation process as both a QB and a competitor in general. But it's pretty silly to give up on him at this early point in his career. With the right people around him, he could develop into an MVP-caliber QB.

Edited December 22, 2008 by Bill Swerski

[WorstCoachingEver]

Oooh, please educate me!

Don't challenge someone who has the facts on their side.

 

Brees got $60 million form the Saints, $10 million of it guaranteed. That's pretty good money for a guy coming fresh off of a shoulder injury. Obviously, his physical showed that he was healthy.

But that's irrelevant to my point, which was the fact that the Chargers lost confidence in Brees way too early. Their lack of patience cost them a first-round pick and an eventual modest downgrade at QB.

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. Brees never passed a physical. He was undergoing rehab in the early spring when he was signed by the Saints. $10 million guranteed wasn't much 2.5 years ago (he was a pro bowler as well) and the Saints paid that much b/c it was a bidding war with Miami. Miami backed out of Brees talks b/c they were concerned with the rotator cuff and felt what the Saints offered was too much for Bree's uncertain condition.

 

Lost confidence in Brees when they drafted Phillips? Uh yeah. Brees was terrible his first couple of seasons and had been pulled for DOUG FLUTIE b/c his play was so bad. It wasn't until competition other than a 40+ year old man came into camp that he started to play well.

 

The Cowboys have a myriad of problems right now. It's not like Romo is the only one holding them back from Super Bowl glory.

Uh, yes he is. You said earlier that "quarterbacks are solely responsible for winning Super Bowls." Well, they certainly are responsible for having a big part in NOT winning Super Bowls. Romo has played a huge part in the last 2 playoff losses. That is not even debatable.

 

Hasselbeck wasn't a decent QB until his 3rd year in Seattle, which was his 6th overall year in the league in the same offense. Both GB and SEA used Holmgren's offense at that time, so he didn't even have to deal with a learning curve in Seattle. One can only learn so much from sitting in meetings and running the scout team. There's no substitute for live game experience.

There are exceptions, but it's not unusual for a QB to take three full years as a starter to mature and play at a high level. Again, look at the way that Eli turned it on last December, after almost four years of mediocre and erratic play.

What does those 2 QBs have to do with Romo? You can cite any QB to back up whatever claim you want. I could claim Phllip Rivers or hell, Kurt Warner played better in less years in the NFL than Romo. I don't even understand what you are arguing on this Hasselbeck/Eli point, and it doesn't matter. Romo has proven he can't win post-November. I'm not going to question his leadership or his heart, but it does look like Peyton in his "choke" years.

 

Again, it comes back to leadership. Wade Phillips has no authority in the locker room and the inmates are running the asylum in Dallas right now. They're an unfocused and undisciplined team, so it's not exactly a shocker that they haven't won a playoff game in over a decade.

I don't disagree, hower this is really only relevant to the defense. Having the defense jump offsides 3x/game, having 12 men on the field in key points of games, and overall 'stupid' mistakes falls on Wade. Garrett / Romo have shown zero creativity/leadership on the offensive side of the ball. Garrett has shown he can't adequately gameplan for a team, and Romo would rather drown in his sorrows with his head down than spark his team up.

[Bill Swerski]

Don't challenge someone who has the facts on their side.

 

 

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. Brees never passed a physical. He was undergoing rehab in the early spring when he was signed by the Saints.

 

Brees obviously had to show the Saints that he was able to throw the ball on his surgically-repaired shoulder. Otherwise, there's no way that they would've given him $10 million. And, sorry, $10 million isn't exactly chump change.

 

Lost confidence in Brees when they drafted Phillips? Uh yeah. Brees was terrible his first couple of seasons and had been pulled for DOUG FLUTIE b/c his play was so bad. It wasn't until competition other than a 40+ year old man came into camp that he started to play well.

 

Yeah, you're right. Brees was intentionally sandbagging it until the Chargers threatened him with Rivers.

 

Thanks to Ryan Leaf, the Chargers panicked and didn't give Brees time to develop. And they paid for it by wasting a first-round pick, creating a QB controversy, and ending up with the lesser QB.

 

Uh, yes he is. You said earlier that "quarterbacks are solely responsible for winning Super Bowls." Well, they certainly are responsible for having a big part in NOT winning Super Bowls. Romo has played a huge part in the last 2 playoff losses. That is not even debatable.

 

There are a number of players that "played a huge part" in Dallas losing their last two playoff games. Crayton's fumble and T.O.'s meager 49 yds receiving (didn't he also drop a crucial pass?) certainly didn't help.

 

What does those 2 QBs have to do with Romo? You can cite any QB to back up whatever claim you want. I could claim Phllip Rivers or hell, Kurt Warner played better in less years in the NFL than Romo. I don't even understand what you are arguing on this Hasselbeck/Eli point, and it doesn't matter. Romo has proven he can't win post-November.

 

Of course it "doesn't matter" to you, because it throws your stupid "Romo clearly will never be a winner based on 2 1/2 years of data" argument out the window.

 

I'm not going to question his leadership or his heart, but it does look like Peyton in his "choke" years.

 

Yeah, and what happened to Peyton two years ago??? HE WON THE SUPER BOWL! Same for his "choke" brother that you know-it-alls were trying to run out of New York last year!

 

Thanks for proving my point!