Holmgren treated just like Favre

[Seahawks21]

Wow. I almost don't know where to start here. I'm not sure if many of you have been made aware of this situation in Seattle. As most of you know, this is Mike Holmgren's last year in Seattle, and he is going to be replaced by Jim Mora next season. We were all led to believe that this is Holmgren's decision. The Seahawks would have given Holmgren an extension before the season if he wanted one, right?????

 

http://kjram.com/pages/mitch_in_the_morning_page.html

 

I'm sorry I don't have a better link, but most of this story actually unveiled itself on local radio. If you scroll down the left hand side of that page, you should be able to listen to the audio from the Mike Holmgren interview on 12/11/08.

 

I'm going to paraphrase here, as close as I can get. Basically, there was a rumor that was brought to light by Claire Farnsworth about a month ago (Claire has worked the Seahawks beat for almost 30 years) that Holmgren wanted an extension before the season and the Seahawks informed him that they are going a different direction. Of course nobody here thought this was truth, as Mike Holmgren pretty much walks on water in Seattle. Most of us blew this off as just a stupid rumor. There is no possible way they would have kicked his royal highness to the curb.

 

The way Holmgren tells the story (Holmgren NEVER throws anybody under the bus, so the fact that there was even a comment amazes me) he went to Arizona after last season with his wife Kathy to relax and decide on his future. Weall speculated this current season would be his last year but there was never an official decision. On his trip, as he put it "sometimes people change their mind, like my young friend Brett Favre". He returned with the decision that he wanted to sign an extension and stick around for a while. As he put it "those people did what they had to do" and had already moved on without him.

 

I am absolutely shocked. How could they not invite Mike Holmgren back? This is the same guy that turned a perennial loser into a perennial winner, including four division championships in a row, five straight playoff appearances, and a Super Bowl appearance. With our terrible track record of replacing great coaches (McMillan, Piniella, Don James), I just can't believe it. It isn't like he held this over their heads every year like Favre did. But even if he did, how do you ever turn your back on Mike Holmgren? My best bet is that Ruskell is waiting for a coach he can boss around, and for a guy that won't have as much power as Holmgren. I can see the Seahawks point, but still can't believe they would do this.

Edited December 13, 2008 by Seahawks21

[tosberg34]

That's too bad. Holmgren's a good guy and I wish he never left us in GB. It's unfortunate that people get treated so crappy after giving so much but I guess that's how the business works. It's "what have you done for me lately" now instead of "thanks for all you've done".

 

However, in the Favre case we all got tired of him waffling every year, waiting till the last minute and then changing his mind YET once again. It became so much of a soap opera that when he left it was a sigh of relief that it was finally over. I love Brett Favre and have watched him ever since he came to GB but it was time to move on. Holmgren never did any of that and got booted unceremoniously.

 

Hope the Seahawks can continue to win (this year is an aberration) without him. Except, of course, when they are playing the Packers.

[Chavez]

Holmgren has pretty inarguably been the best coach in Seahawks history (and his body of work would justify a HoF election, IMO).

 

However, I think it's pretty apparent that whatever he was going to accomplish in Seattle has been achieved. Hutch and Alexander are gone, Hasselback is in decline, etc etc. Holmgren is a good enough coach that I think he could rebuild with another core of players but would he have the patience?

[rattsass]

Well, this is a storyline that helps everybody involved save face. The team is fine because Holmgren told them he was out of there. Holmgren is off the hook because he changed his mind in the end. And the Seahawks can move on with Mora like they want to, and Holmgren can try to wrestle that 49ers job away from Singletary (a potential fly in the ointment that Holmgren may have not seen).

 

I just think coaches "run their course" like Marty did in KC. And that is what has happened here with Holmgren. He'll be back. Somewhere.

[tosberg34]

Is mora that well liked in Seattle? I'm not sure if he's the best choice. Didn't he stink the Falcons up?

[skylive5]

Interesting info. However.....

 

Dear Mr. Homegrin,

 

Don't let the door hit ya.

 

Love and Kisses

 

sky

 

 

Have never been of a fan of anyone that demands all the power because they have convinced themselves that they are pretty much God and then find out they can't do the job. So never really liked him from the start in Seattle. Good coach, lousy GM. And I agree with the poster above.... Homegrins has run his course here in Seattle. Mora won't be any good as a rebuilder but then hey... what can ya say..... it's Seattle.

[Pope Flick]

He's always reminded me of Bill Fitch - he could build great teams but never really could close the deal. A builder, not maintainer.

 

You might disagree but I'm surprised at the surprise. He admitted he left town thinking he was going to ertire and came back ready to stay. When he left town, the team (apparently understanding his pre-Az frame of mind) chose to go in a different direction. He comes back and...the whole management structure should lurch back in his direction? I'm not buying it. Green Bay did the right thing with the info they had. It seems Seattle did as well. The people in question changed their minds but the organization had moved on. Welcome to real life.

[bushwacked]

The team is fine because Holmgren told them he was out of there. Holmgren is off the hook because he changed his mind in the end. And the Seahawks can move on with Mora like they want to, and Holmgren can try to wrestle that 49ers job away from Singletary (a potential fly in the ointment that Holmgren may have not seen).

 

I just think coaches "run their course" like Marty did in KC. And that is what has happened here with Holmgren. He'll be back. Somewhere.

 

There was rampant speculation that Holmgren told them he was out of there in the offseason because they didn't give him another contract. Apparently he wanted to stay. At the very least, he deserves to ask for another crack or two as coach. As far as coaches running their course, you also have to put guys like Coughlin and Turner into that equation. Giant and Titan fans are awfully fortunate they stuck with those guys over a few peaks and valleys.

 

 

. Good coach, lousy GM. And I agree with the poster above....

 

He was an okay GM, he may have drafted Lamar King, Jerramy Stevens, and Koren Robinson; but he is also responsible for Steve Hutchinson, Sean Alexander, and Matt Hasselbeck. This is much more Ruskell's team than in 2005; and the Hawks may end up 2-14 this year.

[godtomsatan]

I am absolutely shocked. How could they not invite Mike Holmgren back? This is the same guy that turned a perennial loser into a perennial winner, including four division championships in a row, five straight playoff appearances, and a Super Bowl appearance.

 

To quote my man V.I. Lenin, follow the dough. Holmgren and Mora have the same agent, Bob LaMonte. Look at his website, they are both listed as clients. If Mike Holmgren, hall of fame coach that he is, is worthy of another $8,000,000 payday (he's the highest paid coach in the league), does anyone honestly think his representation isn't going to be acutely aware of his intentions and his desires regarding his future with the club?

 

I'd love for Mike Holmgren to come back for another season to coach the Seahawks, but I have a hard time believing that the franchise (especially Paul Allen) would not move forward without Holmgren's blessings. Especially considering he announced before they even hired Mora that he didn't foresee coming back after '08.

 

In this case, I imagine Holmgren's just doing one last piece of effort to throw his bosses under the bus for the crapiness of this past season.

[godtomsatan]

Homegrins has run his course here in Seattle. Mora won't be any good as a rebuilder but then hey...

 

I concur. Holmgren's teams have run their course (obviously). I'm not sure Mora's going to be a better solution, but it really depends on getting some new blood on offense, and some better parts on the defensive line.

[Seahawks21]

Well, this is a storyline that helps everybody involved save face. The team is fine because Holmgren told them he was out of there. Holmgren is off the hook because he changed his mind in the end. And the Seahawks can move on with Mora like they want to, and Holmgren can try to wrestle that 49ers job away from Singletary (a potential fly in the ointment that Holmgren may have not seen).

 

I just think coaches "run their course" like Marty did in KC. And that is what has happened here with Holmgren. He'll be back. Somewhere.

Holmgren never told anybody he was out of anywhere. He said the whole season that he would take a vacation after the season and talk with his wife and make a decision at that time. The carpet was taken out from underneath him. He never in any way held anything over their heads. The guy wanted a week or two to think over his future, and they couldn't even grant him that. Pretty classless move IMO.

[Seahawks21]

Is mora that well liked in Seattle? I'm not sure if he's the best choice. Didn't he stink the Falcons up?

Yes Mora is very well liked in Seattle, as he was a UW guy. We have thought for several years that Holmgren's successor would be a more energetic, defense minded guy. Mora certainly fits those qualifications. I honestly haven't followed Mora's career closely enough to comment with much certainty on whether or not the guy is the right coach, but he seems to be a decent fit to what they were looking for.

[Seahawks21]

Interesting info. However.....

 

Dear Mr. Homegrin,

 

Don't let the door hit ya.

 

Love and Kisses

 

sky

 

 

Have never been of a fan of anyone that demands all the power because they have convinced themselves that they are pretty much God and then find out they can't do the job. So never really liked him from the start in Seattle. Good coach, lousy GM. And I agree with the poster above.... Homegrins has run his course here in Seattle. Mora won't be any good as a rebuilder but then hey... what can ya say..... it's Seattle.

Wow. Are we talking about the same Mike Holmgren?? Found out he can't do the job!?!? Huh?? Why would you possibly think Mora can't rebuild? I don't know that he can, but I haven't seen any evidence that would suggest writing him off.

 

Yeah, I know how you feel, I totally hate a guy that takes us to the playoffs every year. He must go now!!! Genius. Perhaps you would have preferred the Hawks to be 5-11 the past 10 years. The guy took a terrible franchise and made them competetive almost every year. I couldn't bring myself to dislike the guy if I tried, ego or not.

Edited December 13, 2008 by Seahawks21

[Seahawks21]

He's always reminded me of Bill Fitch - he could build great teams but never really could close the deal. A builder, not maintainer.

 

You might disagree but I'm surprised at the surprise. He admitted he left town thinking he was going to ertire and came back ready to stay. When he left town, the team (apparently understanding his pre-Az frame of mind) chose to go in a different direction. He comes back and...the whole management structure should lurch back in his direction? I'm not buying it. Green Bay did the right thing with the info they had. It seems Seattle did as well. The people in question changed their minds but the organization had moved on. Welcome to real life.

This is much different than Favre. Favre held this over the Packers' heads for 4 years. Holmgren did for two weeks. It would be awfully hard to convince me that this team going forward would be better off without Holmgren than with him.

[Seahawks21]

coming back after '08.

 

In this case, I imagine Holmgren's just doing one last piece of effort to throw his bosses under the bus for the crapiness of this past season.

Mike Holmgren is one of the classiest guys in the NFL. He has actually kept this whole situation private the whole season in an attempt to NOT throw the front office under the bus. It took weeks of talking about this story before he would speak on it, and even then, all he said was "we had some discussions and decided on the best way to go". I have literally NEVER heard Holmgren take shots at anyone, even when prodded hard by the media, Mitch Levy in particular. He just doesn't do that kind of thing. Like I said, he actually tried to hide the true story. It was media pundits that eventually sucked the truth out. This was not a Holmgren move in any way.

[Seahawks21]

I know full well I'm a Holmgren apologist, but I just don't see how anybody who has lived here for the majority of their life wouldn't be. Before he got here, the Seahawks were certainly in the conversation for the worst franchise in the history of all sports. I dont know about you guys, but I've been down that road, and am forever in debt to the guy for taking us a different route. This isn't like the Packers and Favre. We have no history of success. Our success basically begins with Holmgren. IMO he deserves to go out on his own terms. It isn't like he was holding us hostage. If he wanted the opportunity to try and take us back to the promise land, he should have been given the opportunity to do so. We owe him that much.

[godtomsatan]

I know full well I'm a Holmgren apologist, but I just don't see how anybody who has lived here for the majority of their life wouldn't be. Before he got here, the Seahawks were certainly in the conversation for the worst franchise in the history of all sports. I dont know about you guys, but I've been down that road, and am forever in debt to the guy for taking us a different route. This isn't like the Packers and Favre. We have no history of success. Our success basically begins with Holmgren. IMO he deserves to go out on his own terms. It isn't like he was holding us hostage. If he wanted the opportunity to try and take us back to the promise land, he should have been given the opportunity to do so. We owe him that much.

 

No offense, but I think you must be a child.

 

Chuck Knox won 3 playoff games in the 80s as Seahawks coach. Mike Holmgren didn't get his 4th until the wild card win over the Redskins last year. I'm not disputing who the greater coach is/was and I also believe that Holmgren gets all credit to stabilizing the franchise in the post-Ken Behring ownership era, but you're overzealous in pimping his achievements.

 

I ask you simply this as a Holmgren apologist: If Holmgren wanted to be back in '09 back in February, do you find it odd that his agent would negotiate a deal on behalf of the guy replacing him? For roughly half of what Holmgren had been making? What kind of sense does that make? It doesn't make any sense that talks of that nature would have proceeded without Holmgren's knowledge or blessing..

 

I'm not disparaging Holmgren whatsoever, except when he says nonsensical things like he did on the radio the other morning, it has the capacity to get reactionary dolts hot and bothered about how lame the franchise is. Whether he intended to do that or not, it throws the Seahawks organization under the bus and makes them the bad guys. I don't know about you, but I'm stuck with the Seahawks as my team, I'm not stuck following Mike Holmgren around on his whims from coaching job to coaching job, so for me, I kind of am skeptical as to what his motivations are for making statements like that.

Edited December 13, 2008 by godtomsatan

[kpholmes]

 

Guess what? Raider fans have no sympathy for anyone's coaching woes.

 

However, it is sad to see Holmgrem be shown the door. Maybe their decision to move on with out him has a slight influence in how this season unfolded? I understand the team was completely plagued by injury, but they have just not looked solid.

Edited December 13, 2008 by kpholmes

[Seahawks21]

No offense, but I think you must be a child.

 

Chuck Knox won 3 playoff games in the 80s as Seahawks coach. Mike Holmgren didn't get his 4th until the wild card win over the Redskins last year. I'm not disputing who the greater coach is/was and I also believe that Holmgren gets all credit to stabilizing the franchise in the post-Ken Behring ownership era, but you're overzealous in pimping his achievements.

 

I ask you simply this as a Holmgren apologist: If Holmgren wanted to be back in '09 back in February, do you find it odd that his agent would negotiate a deal on behalf of the guy replacing him? For roughly half of what Holmgren had been making? What kind of sense does that make? It doesn't make any sense that talks of that nature would have proceeded without Holmgren's knowledge or blessing..

 

I'm not disparaging Holmgren whatsoever, except when he says nonsensical things like he did on the radio the other morning, it has the capacity to get reactionary dolts hot and bothered about how lame the franchise is. Whether he intended to do that or not, it throws the Seahawks organization under the bus and makes them the bad guys. I don't know about you, but I'm stuck with the Seahawks as my team, I'm not stuck following Mike Holmgren around on his whims from coaching job to coaching job, so for me, I kind of am skeptical as to what his motivations are for making statements like that.

Agan, I remind you that Holmgren did not bring this up in any way. Just listen to the interview. He was asked a direct question. When asked direction questions, he answers them honestly....always. He was trying to use the PC answer to not throw the team under the bus, but he answered the question truthfully. That is all he did. This is not a tirade or parade. He was asked a question and answered it honestly, even though it was obvious he would have liked to lie.

 

I'm thinking it might have been a smart move to come up with a plan B and lock up Mora in case Holmgren was going to leave. Call me crazy.

[Randall]

Agan, I remind you that Holmgren did not bring this up in any way. Just listen to the interview. He was asked a direct question. When asked direction questions, he answers them honestly....always. He was trying to use the PC answer to not throw the team under the bus, but he answered the question truthfully. That is all he did. This is not a tirade or parade. He was asked a question and answered it honestly, even though it was obvious he would have liked to lie.

 

I'm thinking it might have been a smart move to come up with a plan B and lock up Mora in case Holmgren was going to leave. Call me crazy.

 

 

This whole affair reads like a soap opera. I thought Favre was the one with all the baggage.

 

And a bit of advice from a GB fan. When Holmgren leaves count the silverware. I'd hate for you guys to suffer what we did. The guy took everything that wasn't bolted down.

[Randall]

Is mora that well liked in Seattle? I'm not sure if he's the best choice. Didn't he stink the Falcons up?

 

 

No Michael Vick did.

[kpholmes]

When asked direction questions, he answers them honestly....always.

Your posts scream bias that make it hard for us to take anything you say seriously.

 

No Michael Vick did.

[Largent80]

No Michael Vick did.

Beat me to it.....

[godtomsatan]

Agan, I remind you that Holmgren did not bring this up in any way. Just listen to the interview. He was asked a direct question. When asked direction questions, he answers them honestly....always. He was trying to use the PC answer to not throw the team under the bus, but he answered the question truthfully. That is all he did. This is not a tirade or parade. He was asked a question and answered it honestly, even though it was obvious he would have liked to lie.

 

Alright, I'm not sure I agree with any of your above comments, but anyway, here's the bit that caused the biggest splash:

 

Levy:....Did the Seahawks organization...communicate to you in any way that you were not welcome back to coach the Seahawks beyond the 2008 season?

 

Holmgren: Kathy (his wife) and I had talked about what we were going to do, and I think I communicated that fairly with the organization, but like a friend of mine, Brett Favre, people change their mind on occasion, but while this is going on, organizations have to make decisions. Jim (Mora) was here, he was in place, I had communicated honestly what my future I thought was going to be, and then everyone did what they had to do.

 

I still am not 100% sure how this gets construed that Holmgren is being aced out by the organization, but it certainly made a 2-11 team more interesting to talk about in a week leading up to a matchup against another 2-11 team.

[tosberg34]

This whole affair reads like a soap opera. I thought Favre was the one with all the baggage.

 

And a bit of advice from a GB fan. When Holmgren leaves count the silverware. I'd hate for you guys to suffer what we did. The guy took everything that wasn't bolted down.

 

Kind of like the Clintons when they left the White House.

Edited December 14, 2008 by tosberg34