Mangini Gone

[BadgerBacker]

Seatlle is open with Holmgren's retirement, so that's another.

 

Oakland already fired Kiffin and it's an open question whether Cable will be retained. Heck, anything Al Davis does is an open question.

 

Those two bring us up to seven.

 

I'd think Marvin Lewis should be on the bubble in Cincinnati and Herm Edwards in Kansas City.

 

Mike McCarthy, Jack Del Rio, Lovie Smith, Gary Kubiak, Sean Payton, Jon Gruden, and Dick Jauron are probably safe, although the Bucs' and Bills' fades were as bad as what happened to the Jets IMO.

Edited December 29, 2008 by BadgerBacker

[Ziachild007]

Seatlle is open with Holmgren's retirement, so that's another.

 

Not really open with Mora Jr. already in place to take over.

[Egret]

There must have been some bad mojo going on in the locker room. From someone who doesn't follow the Jets, Mangini seemed like a good coach. Of course being a Lions fan, my standards are pretty low.

[Rovers]

There must have been some bad mojo going on in the locker room. From someone who doesn't follow the Jets, Mangini seemed like a good coach. Of course being a Lions fan, my standards are pretty low.

 

The Jets waited far too long to fire Edwards, so at least they did not repeat that mistake.

 

Mangini started playing so passively on defense after the Titans game, it was truely a "play not to lose" approach. Even before that, he almost gave away the NE game with this no pass rush, bend over so far as to be looking thru his own legs defensive strategy.

 

Ownership got Mangini every FA he wanted, including Favre. Combined with NE losing Brady, and a team that won ONE game last year beating them in week 17, at home with the QB Mangini fired.... ONLY a playoff appearance was going to be good enough. Remember too that Mangini got rid of the two faces (and leaders) of this franchise... Vilma and Pennington. In retrospect, I have to wonder if Mangini felt threatened by these two... and maybe why he did what he could to undemine Favre in front of the team?

 

The last straw. Mangini admitted he spent part of the practice week before the Seattle game preparing for Miami so he and the team could take the holidays off. Lastly, yes, the whole PSL thing played a part in this. The NFL is all about the $. This is nothing new, and should not come as a surprise.

 

This franchise has a "losing aura" about it even when they win. Same old Jets. Ever heard that one? Even at 8-3, with a VERY soft schedule, this team completely collapsed. Losing is engrained in the culture of this team. This is a win NOW league. Mangini's legacy is yet another Jets collapse. I think this firing can only help, and I can't see how it could hurt a whole lot. Third place in the division is just not good enough, especially when they were in total control of the division just 5 short weeks ago.

 

What bothers me are the reports that they fired Mangini in large part to convince Favre to reurn next year. Favre's QB rating was 55 over the last 5 games. The fact is, Favre was the worst QB in the NFL during that stretch when all the Jets needed was 2 wins against some very bad teams.

 

One half of the problem is gone, but the other half remains.

[Gunther]

What bothers me are the reports that they fired Mangini in large part to convince Favre to reurn next year. Favre's QB rating was 55 over the last 5 games. The fact is, Favre was the worst QB in the NFL during that stretch when all the Jets needed was 2 wins against some very bad teams.

Really? Why would firing Mangini make it easier for Favre to decide to return? I'm asking since I don't understand this. Did Favre have a problem with Mangini?

[Hugh 0ne]

Why does Rovers hate Christmas?

[Rovers]

Really? Why would firing Mangini make it easier for Favre to decide to return? I'm asking since I don't understand this. Did Favre have a problem with Mangini?

 

Yes, there are reports now surfacing that Mangini called Favre out on the carpet often during team meetings. Mangini also would call players into his office for "pop quizes", basically a grilling on the next opponent, etc, and Favre didn't much care for the high school principle approach Mangini used.

 

Reprts are that the FO and owner will do ANYTHING to convince Favre to return, and firing Mangini was the first big step towards that end. Now, I just have to hope that Favre' shoulder MRI comes back with bad (good) news.

 

Hugh one, all I want for Christmas is a playoff game.... all Mangini wanted was a day off.

[BadgerBacker]

Not really open with Mora Jr. already in place to take over.

 

Good point. Coaching turnover yes, but the seat is filled.

[Caveman_Nick]

Yes, there are reports now surfacing that Mangini called Favre out on the carpet often during team meetings. Mangini also would call players into his office for "pop quizes", basically a grilling on the next opponent, etc, and Favre didn't much care for the high school principle approach Mangini used.

 

Reprts are that the FO and owner will do ANYTHING to convince Favre to return, and firing Mangini was the first big step towards that end. Now, I just have to hope that Favre' shoulder MRI comes back with bad (good) news.

 

Hugh one, all I want for Christmas is a playoff game.... all Mangini wanted was a day off.

 

 

Funny that you post this. I had no idea what was going on there, but I was talking to a co-worker earlier and said to them that I would bet that a big part of the lack of success by the Jets and Favre late season was what looked to be an end to the Favre-Mangini honeymoon. They just didn;t look to be on the same page or in the same frame of mind.

[FishFreak]

I don't think Mangini was anything special but he did deserve another year. I would like to see HC's get 4-5 years to prove themselves, leran form their mistakes and grow with their teams. 3 years is simply not enough time. The Jets actually turned out to be what most people realistically thought they would be, a 9-7 team. The collapse and season ending loss to all people, Pennington did him in. If the owners are trying to make Favre happy by canning Mangini that would be a huge mistake. Why cater to a 40 year old turn over machines requests? They are better off starting over concentrating on the draft and making better FA decisions in the off-season.

 

For the record, I still feel like the Jets would have had a better season with Favre than with Pennigton. Chad is playing great but clearly benefiting from solid coaching and a good system in Miami for his skill set.

 

As for other coaches that should get the axe, Herm Edwards and Shanahan should get escorted out the door immediately. They have both worn out their welcome and have taken their respective teams backwards.

[Rovers]

I don't think Mangini was anything special but he did deserve another year. I would like to see HC's get 4-5 years to prove themselves, leran form their mistakes and grow with their teams. 3 years is simply not enough time. The Jets actually turned out to be what most people realistically thought they would be, a 9-7 team. The collapse and season ending loss to all people, Pennington did him in. If the owners are trying to make Favre happy by canning Mangini that would be a huge mistake. Why cater to a 40 year old turn over machines requests? They are better off starting over concentrating on the draft and making better FA decisions in the off-season.

 

For the record, I still feel like the Jets would have had a better season with Favre than with Pennigton. Chad is playing great but clearly benefiting from solid coaching and a good system in Miami for his skill set.

 

As for other coaches that should get the axe, Herm Edwards and Shanahan should get escorted out the door immediately. They have both worn out their welcome and have taken their respective teams backwards.

 

Mangini got worse as a HC, not better. If a HC deserves 4 years.... how is it a team like Miami can go from one win toe a division title? How is it a team that is 8-3 can end at 9-7 with one of the easiest schedules in the league? Yeah, if I were a Dolphin fan I'd give Mangini another year too.

 

Last 5 games: Favre, QB rating: 55

22 INT's on the season.

 

Mangini was half the problem, Favre is the other half. I think with Pennington the Jets would have won 11, and the division.

[Jackass]

I don't think Mangini was anything special but he did deserve another year. I would like to see HC's get 4-5 years to prove themselves, leran form their mistakes and grow with their teams. 3 years is simply not enough time. The Jets actually turned out to be what most people realistically thought they would be, a 9-7 team. The collapse and season ending loss to all people, Pennington did him in. If the owners are trying to make Favre happy by canning Mangini that would be a huge mistake. Why cater to a 40 year old turn over machines requests? They are better off starting over concentrating on the draft and making better FA decisions in the off-season.

 

For the record, I still feel like the Jets would have had a better season with Favre than with Pennigton. Chad is playing great but clearly benefiting from solid coaching and a good system in Miami for his skill set.

 

As for other coaches that should get the axe, Herm Edwards and Shanahan should get escorted out the door immediately. They have both worn out their welcome and have taken their respective teams backwards.

 

4-5 years does not make any sense at all. that's an eon in professional sports. look what miami did this year. Or atlanta. sometimes a coach and an organization are not a good match and it's time to move on.

[godtomsatan]

I don't think Mangini was anything special but he did deserve another year. I would like to see HC's get 4-5 years to prove themselves, leran form their mistakes and grow with their teams. 3 years is simply not enough time.

 

I completely disagree. While I concur that one season isn't enough, in the NFL you are either getting better or you are not. 3 seasons is enough to prove whether the team you have in front of you is responding.

[tomfin2000]

Yes, he has a headset on and watched as the Jets would consistently average 5-10YPC and reel off 12 straight pass plays with a number of 3 and outs. Watching them gain 25 yards running Thomas Jones in the wind and rain against the Broncos, who possessed the worst rushing defense in the league, and then come out and run a double-reverse resulting in a fumble was more than I could stomach. They then followed that up with 13 passing plays out of their next 15 plays. Again, I remind you, in inclement weather against the league's worst D.

 

For any head-coach to sit there and let the OC call such a horrendous game is a great example of poor head coaching.

 

The Jets play calling alone cost them at least 5 games this season!

 

That one really stuck out in my mind as well as I was playing against Jones that day. He was absolutley destroying the Broncos and could have easily rolled up 200+ yards if they had kept feeding him the ball.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

I completely disagree. While I concur that one season isn't enough, in the NFL you are either getting better or you are not. 3 seasons is enough to prove whether the team you have in front of you is responding.

Tom Landy coached 6 years before he had a winning season.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

That one really stuck out in my mind as well as I was playing against Jones that day. He was absolutley destroying the Broncos and could have easily rolled up 200+ yards if they had kept feeding him the ball.

Jones could've had a HUGH year. Their playcalling sucked big time.

[FishFreak]

Homers are so damn emotional. One of the biggest problems in sports today is instant gratification and win now expectations. I'm by no means defending Mangini. All I'm saying is if you bring a guy in to be a HC and he's "your guy" stick with him for 4-5 years. See how the draft picks develop, his system runs and most importantly what he gets out of his players. In his first year, he was Mangenius and the rave of NY. Now all of a sudden the guy sucks and he's awful. He's clearly somewhere in the middle. Like I said the Jets are a 9-7 team....at the end of the day you are what you are.

 

Coughlin got an extra year, changed a bit and worked magic. Fox stuck around in Carolina and is back to making the Panthers contenders. Reid in Philly seems to always be under the gun with the Philly media but manages to consistently win. The Titans stuck with Fisher thru the tough years and are now reaping the rewards. Sometimes it's best to give your guy another year to improve and turn things around. Stability counts for something. Changing systems, coaches and philosophies every few years may turn around your team overnight but it can also set your team back another 2-4 years.

 

And for those pointing out how changes have worked out in Atlanta and Miami, those are obviously special cases. The Ravens, Falcons and Dolphins clearly benefited from improved coaching but also the number one factor to winning in the NFL....a sound QB. Let's see if these teams can keep it up. In 3-4 years the tide can turn and their jobs might be on the line....Although Sparano & Harbaugh seem like keepers.

[piratesownninjas]

Mike McCarthy, Jack Del Rio, Lovie Smith, Gary Kubiak, Sean Payton, Jon Gruden, and Dick Jauron are probably safe, although the Bucs' and Bills' fades were as bad as what happened to the Jets IMO.

I'd say Mike McCarthy is beyond safe. He's a year removed from the NFC championship and had his offense near the top of the league again. If anything coaching wise needs to change, it's the DC... That, and AJ Hawk needs his Vulva to heal.

[godtomsatan]

Coughlin got an extra year, changed a bit and worked magic. Fox stuck around in Carolina and is back to making the Panthers contenders. Reid in Philly seems to always be under the gun with the Philly media but manages to consistently win. The Titans stuck with Fisher thru the tough years and are now reaping the rewards. Sometimes it's best to give your guy another year to improve and turn things around. Stability counts for something. Changing systems, coaches and philosophies every few years may turn around your team overnight but it can also set your team back another 2-4 years.

 

Mangini was 23-25 with 1 post-season game two seasons ago during his tenure. A collapse down the stretch that included very questionable in-game coaching, as well as apparent off-field maneuvers? And you're defending him? That 4th down in Seattle was the most dumb call I've ever seen at the NFL level given the circumstances of the team and the game and I have a feeling sealed his fate regardless of the outcome in Week 17, which so happened to be losing at home with a playoff berth on the line to a division rival with the QB he had run off the previous off-season. I'm all for stability and systems, but you're ignoring competency and results in the process.

 

By the way, of the names you listed:

Coughlin in NY: 25-23 with 2 consecutive post-season games in three years before his run last season.

Fox in Carolina the prior three seasons to this one: 26-22 with 2 playoff wins.

Reid the previous three seasons: 24-24 with a playoff win.

 

The only one with a worse record is Fisher, and he's had a 22-26 record the last three seasons, however he's coming off a playoff appearance last season and his team improved from 4 to 8 to 10 wins before '08.

[Footballjoe]

Trying to build a team through FA's does not seem to work well. As a Redskin fan...........................

[Wolverines Fan]

Jones could've had a HUGH year. Their playcalling sucked big time.

 

I totally agree. Nobody in the Jets organization seems to be calling out Mangini's offensive coordinator whoever he is. There were games that Jones should have topped 150 rushing yards easily, but I would check the box score and see that he only carried 12-14 times. And what about Leon Washington? That guy is explosive, but his touches seemed inconsistent from week to week. Jets homers am I wrong here?

Edited December 30, 2008 by Wolverines Fan

[Dorian]

Mangini is a young coach who had some success early.They should give him some more time to show himself.

[Bill Swerski]

Mangini was half the problem, Favre is the other half. I think with Pennington the Jets would have won 11, and the division.

 

Yeah, the Jets implosion can be attributed to just two people... and Jesus Pennington would've lead them to the playoffs with his golden arm.

 

Agreed that Mangini isn't that great of a HC, but let's face it: they were a slightly-above-average team this year that was in the hunt because there wasn't a dominant team in the AFC East. Signing a few aging veterans very rarely takes you from 4-12 to 14-2. Faneca and Woody improved their offense significantly, but their defense was still incredibly mediocre. Their passing game was terrible under Pennington and Clemens and got better with Favre (7 more TDs and only three more INTs than the other two last season), but it wasn't enough to overcome a mediocre coaching staff and a defense that didn't show up half the time.

Edited December 30, 2008 by Bill Swerski

[Rovers]

Yeah, the Jets implosion can be attributed to just two people... and Jesus Pennington would've lead them to the playoffs with his golden arm.

 

Agreed that Mangini isn't that great of a HC, but let's face it: they were a slightly-above-average team this year that was in the hunt because there wasn't a dominant team in the AFC East. Signing a few aging veterans very rarely takes you from 4-12 to 14-2. Faneca and Woody improved their offense significantly, but their defense was still incredibly mediocre. Their passing game was terrible under Pennington and Clemens and got better with Favre (7 more TDs and only three more INTs than the other two last season), but it wasn't enough to overcome a mediocre coaching staff and a defense that didn't show up half the time.

 

Jesus Pennington led a 1 win team to a division title. Comparing the 2007 QB stats to 2008 is sort of silly... that O line from 2007 was one of the worst in the league. There was no such thing as a 5 step drop... it was a five step sack. Adding Faneca and Woody was no small improvement. The offensive line went from the worst 5 in the NFL to a top 10 unit. So many of Favre's INT's were thrown right at defenders, into double and even triple coverage. He had time to throw. The guy simply refuses to toss one out of bounds. Favre GAVE the Oakland game away, period. All they had to do was run the ball, protect the lead, but Favre throws a pick deep in his own territory for no reason at all on what was it, 2nd and 3?

 

A few aging veterans? Jenkins is one of the best NT's in the NFL. Pace was a force early in the season, until Mangini went so ridiculously conservative on defense in the second half. Maybe you are confused... only Law was an "aging veteran", but he was signed in week... 11 was it?

 

Leon Washington was under used as the best playmaker on the team, Dustin Keller was not an aging vet either. Fine, if you want to call Faneca an aging vet... he's an aging vet going to the pro bowl. The Jets DID beat Tenn when they were at the top of their game. They beat NE in NE (although Mangini did his best to lose that game) and all the Jets had to do was beat a terrible Seattle team, hapless Buffalo and either Denver, a team with no defense or Miami at home. Not a tall order at all.

 

Maybe I should say Mangini was 45% of the problem, Favre was 45%. I can live with the other 10% of blame going elsewhere.

 

Favre had a 55 QB rating over the last 5 games. Worst QB in the NFL over that stretch. You want to defend Favre... based on what? 22 INT's? Have fun with spinning that one.

Edited December 30, 2008 by Rovers

[Bill Swerski]

Jesus Pennington led a 1 win team to a division title.

 

Yeah, a completely different team. Just as Favre lead a completely different team to the NFC Championship Game.

 

Comparing the 2007 QB stats to 2008 is sort of silly... that O line from 2007 was one of the worst in the league.

 

So, it's OK to give Pennington a pass for sucking so badly that he got benched (using your O-line excuse), but we must ignore the fact that Favre had success in 2007 on a better-coached team? Gotcha. I suppose that we should also ignore the fact that part of the Jets' inability to run the ball in '07 was Pennington's noodle arm encouraging the opposing defense's SS to stack the box.

 

Pennington was successful this season because he played on a functional, competently-coached team where he was expected to simply manage the offense. Favre did not. And I use the word "successful" hesitantly, as 19 TDs is still pretty weak.

 

Jenkins is one of the best NT's in the NFL.

 

Jenkins was great in Carolina, injuries nearly killed his career, and he had a really good first half in NY this season. Too bad he disappeared with the rest of the Jets D down the stretch.

 

You want to defend Favre... based on what? 22 INT's? Have fun with spinning that one.

 

And you want to pump up Pennington based on what? 19 TDs? Have fun spinning that one.

 

I completely agree that Favre bit it down the stretch, but your assertion that the Jets would've been a better team with Pennington this season is dubious at best. He'd be playing in the same system where he failed miserably before, facing 8 men in the box because he struggles to throw the ball 20 yards downfield. Dude's a system QB with a noodle arm who can't make plays. No way that he beats the Pats in the OT shootout game. Nor does he beat Miami or Arizona. They arguably wouldn't have even been contenders entering this month without him. I'll bet you think that Matt Cassel would've taken the Jets to the Super Bowl.

Edited December 30, 2008 by Bill Swerski