Brentastic Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 fixed Whoa - a Yuk siting! What up mang? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 The way I look at it is that Dungy managed to get some very flawed teams into the playoffs. Nah. Manning managed to get some very flawed teams into the playoffs. I'm not sure that just any old coach would've done that.You mean like Mora? Dungy's coaching in TB was better than his coaching for the Colts (some reasons have already been mentioned) - nice guy and all but I think to no small extent he rode the coattails of the top personnel he had at the time (the stud D in TB, Manning for the Colts). I'd love to see what a Cowher or some such could have done w/this team. I've no doubt that more SBs (and certainly more playoff wins) would've been the result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrudge Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Yes, once he's out he's staying out. No booth, no sideline return, IMO.Listening to the press conference last night, I briefly thought about possiblities of him staying connected to the NFL but not in a coaching capacity. I just can't imagine him being a talking head in the booth or behind a desk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I could potentially see Tony D ending up at a place like Notre Dame or Boston College in a few years if he wanted to coach on a lesser scale. I would think it would have to a Christian university, though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Listening to the press conference last night, I briefly thought about possiblities of him staying connected to the NFL but not in a coaching capacity. I just can't imagine him being a talking head in the booth or behind a desk. Maybe he might do player liaison work for the NFL, counseling rookies perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 (edited) The Vikes hired Brad Childress over Jim Caldwell a few years ago. Caldwell must really suck if he isn't as good as Childress is at coaching. link Edited January 13, 2009 by MikesVikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyr0802 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 The Vikes hired Brad Childress over Jim Caldwell a few years ago. Caldwell must really suck if he isn't as good as Childress is at coaching. link Gawd I hope not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 (edited) Nah. Manning managed to get some very flawed teams into the playoffs. The Colts actually did play some solid defense every now and again during the Dungy era, and Manning had little to do with it. It speaks volumes that the Colts won a SB (and dominated defensively at times) with turds like Jason David and Rob Morris starting on defense. I also don't see mediocre coaches getting what Dungy did out of under-sized players like Gary Brackett, Cato June, and Raheem Brock. You mean like Mora? The Colts made the playoffs twice in four years under Mora, and had zero post-season wins. I'm not sure how he's comparable to Dungy. Dungy's coaching in TB was better than his coaching for the Colts More like Rich McKay spent all of TB's cap money on defensive studs (Dungy's strengh), while Bill Polian spent all of IND's cap money on offensive studs. nice guy and all but I think to no small extent he rode the coattails of the top personnel he had at the time (the stud D in TB, Manning for the Colts). ALL great coaches "ride the coattails of the top personel" on the Super Bowl. Make Vince Lombari, Chuck Noll, or Bill Walsh coach the 2008 Lions and they don't win crap, either. Edited January 13, 2009 by Bill Swerski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 ALL great coaches "ride the coattails of the top personel" on the Super Bowl. Make Vince Lombari, Chuck Noll, or Bill Walsh coach the 2008 Lions and they don't win crap, either. +1. Half the skill of head coaching is staff selection. It is a leader's primary skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 (edited) Let's stop trying to create scenarios where so and so coach could have done better with these players and just take a minute to reflect on what Dungy did do with these players. There is a short list of coaches in the NFL to have ever won a Super Bowl and they all had one thing in common, they had great players on their teams the years they won the Super Bowl. So what, someone still had to coach that team from training camp through the Super Bowl. And just having a STUD QB is no guarantee of a coach getting a super bowl, just ask Don Shula, he won super bowls but never with Marino. It takes a combination of great coaching, great execution and luck. Dungy is a great coach and a good person and deserves praise for what he has accomnplished in his coaching career. Edited January 13, 2009 by Jrick35 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 And just having a STUD QB is no guarantee of a coach getting a super bowl, just ask Don Shula, he won super bowls but never with Marino. Or Unitas. And Shula certainly didn't win with the Dolphins because Bob Griese was a better QB than those two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Or Unitas. And Shula certainly didn't win with the Dolphins because Bob Griese was a better QB than those two. Exactly! There are many components that go into winning a Super Bowl and none of the parts should ever be discounted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) The Colts actually did play some solid defense every now and again during the Dungy era and Manning had little to do with it.Wow there's a ringing endorsement for a guy who is supposedly a defensive whiz. It speaks volumes that the Colts won a SB (and dominated defensively at times) with turds like Jason David and Rob Morris starting on defense. it speaks volumes that David, who sucked, even had a starting spot thx to Dungy. (Morris was actually a respectable LB that year) ( I also don't see mediocre coaches getting what Dungy did out of under-sized players like Gary Brackett, Cato June, and Raheem Brock.lol and wth? He didn't "get much" out of them as they were at BEST mediocre, often less. The playoff/SB run was amazing, granted, but was mostly due to Sanders returning and basically riding a hot streak for a few games...their D mostly sucked that year. Badly. And I also don't see mediocre coaches with a high-powered O like the Colts have. The Colts made the playoffs twice in four years under Mora, and had zero post-season wins. I'm not sure how he's comparable to Dungy.That's really weak and I think you know it. Way to ignore that his first year Manning was a rookie and tossed 28 picks, ie "wasn't Manning" just yet. Then 2 playoff losses - how many times did Dungy's Colts quickly exit the playoffs? I grant you Mora's last year falling largely at his feet though. However he also engineered the greatest single-season turnaround in NFL history (3-13 to 13-3) - basically I think if he stayed as coach they would've had at least as many SB rings as with Dungy. Mora also did what was thought impossible for many years, ie making the Saints a winning team. Not that I'm exactly a big Mora fan, was glad to see him go, but yes the 2 are easily comparable talent-wise. ALL great coaches "ride the coattails of the top personel" on the Super Bowl. Make Vince Lombari, Chuck Noll, or Bill Walsh coach the 2008 Lions and they don't win crap, either. Good comparison. As stated, many factors go into a SB win and I didn't say a stud QB is a guarantee for one, nor am I saying the personnel on the field isn't hug e. duh. I am saying that w/o Manning (who isn't just a great player but like having an asst coach on the field), if they had say just a decent QB, most years they probably wouldn't have even made the playoffs, even sucked outright. I doubt that would have been the case with any of the examples you gave, except Shula's Marino-led Fins. You also conveniently ignore that Dungy inherited the Manning-led high-powered O and a Colts team which was already playoff caliber. It was thought he would fix the D; he didn't. Also their special teams routinely suck. And there are the other things I listed. Comparing Dungy to those other coaches is laughable. Basically, thx mostly to Manning, Dungy (and Polian) gets more credit than he deserves IMO. Edited January 14, 2009 by BeeR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 And just having a STUD QB is no guarantee of a coach getting a super bowl, just ask Don Shula, he won super bowls but never with Marino. No but it's a pretty safe bet to at least get to one. The list of truly all-time great QBs who didn't at least play for the title is very short - certainly far shorter than those who did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 well, I've thought about it some more, and I wish Dungy had stayed. I really think the offense needs some shaking up. New offensive coordinator. Manning has run the same offense for 11 years. I think the Colts should cut Harrison, and start spending money on defense. Start drafiing or acquiring good cheap WR's. Give Manning a defense. Don't make him outscore everyone. That doesn't work in the play-offs. Give him a running game and a D, and stop spending all that money on WR, RB, and TE's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) Wow there's a ringing endorsement for a guy who is supposedly a defensive whiz. Yeah, and Dungy's supposed to repeat his defensive success in Tampa with half of the defensive budget. it speaks volumes that David, who sucked, even had a starting spot thx to Dungy. (Morris was actually a respectable LB that year) Again, Dungy had to play turds like David because Polian spent all of the cap money on the offense... and still managed to win with them. Morris f'n sucked. He lost his MLB job to Brackett and was too slow to be an every-down OLB in a Cover 2, which explains why Boiman was on the field so often. The playoff/SB run was amazing, granted, but was mostly due to Sanders returning and basically riding a hot streak for a few games...their D mostly sucked that year. Badly. The defense played well from January of '07 through about November of '07. And it wasn't all Sanders. basically I think if he stayed as coach they would've had at least as many SB rings as with Dungy. Highly unlikely, as his defenses were inferior to Dungy's and he lost the team after he threw Peyton under the bus in a post-game interview in 2001. Not that I'm exactly a big Mora fan, was glad to see him go, but yes the 2 are easily comparable talent-wise. Mora, the supposed defensive whiz, didn't put together a single defense that ranked in the top third of the league. Dungy did in his first year in Indy... and then a couple more after that. Mora got to the playoffs twice in four years in Indy. Dungy was a stunning 7/7 in playoff berths in Indy. Mora couldn't win a single playoff game with the Saints OR the Colts. Dungy went to the NFC Championship game with the Bucs and won a Super Bowl with the Colts. Yeah, they're really comparable. Basically, thx mostly to Manning, Dungy (and Polian) gets more credit than he deserves IMO. POLIAN gets more credit than he deserves? Are you high? He put the whole f'n thing together! If it weren't for Polian, Manning would be Carson Palmer. Edited January 14, 2009 by Bill Swerski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 And I also don't see mediocre coaches with a high-powered O like the Colts have. Say, how have the Saints been doing under the Brees/Payton combo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Maybe BeeR doesn't like him because he is black? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Maybe BeeR doesn't like him because he is black? BeeR dislikes everyone equally, regardless of race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 BeeR dislikes everyone equally, regardless of race. He's my brother from another mother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Here's a good local piece on Tony Dungy from the Star Tribune. He's one of the top people ever to be associated with the NFL in my book. He's right up there with Sweetness. link Tony Dungy has left his mark as a football coach, possessing a gift for winning players' admiration. By JIM SOUHAN, Star Tribune Last update: January 13, 2009 - 3:58 PM Tom Moore grew up in Rochester, played college football at Iowa and coached at the University of Minnesota. The football lifer envisioned a diverse offense that would enable an intelligent quarterback to call most of his own plays at the line of scrimmage. Years later, Peyton Manning and a host of new-age quarterbacks would make these offenses commonplace. Years earlier, Moore had introduced his ideas to a recruit out of Michigan, during a meeting that would change their lives. "He came and met me at my high school in 1973 and showed me a videotape of what this offense was all about," Tony Dungy said a couple of years ago. "He said, 'Here's what happens -- you go to the line of scrimmage, I give you three or four plays, you look at the defense and if you see this, you do that.' And I watched that video and thought, 'Wow, this would be fun.' " Dungy committed to Minnesota. He and Moore became friends, and later worked together on the Steelers and Vikings coaching staffs. When Dungy became head coach of the Indianapolis Colts in 2002, he kept Moore as offensive coordinator. When Dungy became the first black head coach to win a Super Bowl, it was Moore's offense, with Manning playing Dungy's old role, that combined with Dungy's defense to make history. Monday, Dungy retired from coaching. He wants to use his popularity to help people other than football players. "Being the coach of this football team," he said Monday, "has given me a definite platform to reach people I would have never been able to reach." Dungy started building that platform at the U, with Moore. "He worked with me and developed me as a quarterback, as a thinker and as a person," Dungy said. "No question, I wouldn't be here today without working under Tom for those four years." Moore told me two years ago that he remembered arriving at the Bierman Building on the Minnesota campus at 6:30 a.m. every day to find Dungy waiting, "so he could study a couple of cans of film before he went to class." Moore said, "Tony had the same passion as Peyton Manning. We did some no-huddle stuff, and he called a lot of his own plays." This was at Super Bowl XLI in Miami. Moore was sitting by himself, chatting about his Minnesota roots. Unsolicited, he looked up and said, reverently, "Tony's great." How often do we see a coach of Dungy's success and stature leave the job on his own terms, dignity intact, soaking in admiration from every corner of the country and every profession entwined with his? Maybe never, before now. The most successful NFL head coaches tend to believe they're Pattons in headsets. They win championships and earn the admiration of those closest to them, but they usually succeed either in spite of or because of a God complex. They leave bodies and careers strewn in their wake. I got to know Dungy when he worked for the Vikings, when he found a way to produce spectacular results while earning the admiration, even the love, of his players. Football historians will remember Dungy for breaking a racial barrier. Those who know Dungy prefer to think of him as unique in another way. People performed for Dungy because they admired him. They never wanted to disappoint such a charismatic and decent man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 No but it's a pretty safe bet to at least get to one. The list of truly all-time great QBs who didn't at least play for the title is very short - certainly far shorter than those who did. Of course having a stud QB is going to increase your chances of getting to a Super Bowl, the point was that in addition to a stud QB, there are many other factors that go into actually winning the Super Bowl and one of those factors is coaching. Take a look at your same list of truly great QB's who made it to the Super Bowl and won it and then look at the list of coaches that go with them, it will be an equally impressive list. And Tony Dungy deserves to be on that list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyr0802 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Here's a good local piece on Tony Dungy from the Star Tribune. He's one of the top people ever to be associated with the NFL in my book. He's right up there with Sweetness. link Tony Dungy has left his mark as a football coach, possessing a gift for winning players' admiration. By JIM SOUHAN, Star Tribune Last update: January 13, 2009 - 3:58 PM Tom Moore grew up in Rochester, played college football at Iowa and coached at the University of Minnesota. The football lifer envisioned a diverse offense that would enable an intelligent quarterback to call most of his own plays at the line of scrimmage. Years later, Peyton Manning and a host of new-age quarterbacks would make these offenses commonplace. Years earlier, Moore had introduced his ideas to a recruit out of Michigan, during a meeting that would change their lives. "He came and met me at my high school in 1973 and showed me a videotape of what this offense was all about," Tony Dungy said a couple of years ago. "He said, 'Here's what happens -- you go to the line of scrimmage, I give you three or four plays, you look at the defense and if you see this, you do that.' And I watched that video and thought, 'Wow, this would be fun.' " Dungy committed to Minnesota. He and Moore became friends, and later worked together on the Steelers and Vikings coaching staffs. When Dungy became head coach of the Indianapolis Colts in 2002, he kept Moore as offensive coordinator. When Dungy became the first black head coach to win a Super Bowl, it was Moore's offense, with Manning playing Dungy's old role, that combined with Dungy's defense to make history. Monday, Dungy retired from coaching. He wants to use his popularity to help people other than football players. "Being the coach of this football team," he said Monday, "has given me a definite platform to reach people I would have never been able to reach." Dungy started building that platform at the U, with Moore. "He worked with me and developed me as a quarterback, as a thinker and as a person," Dungy said. "No question, I wouldn't be here today without working under Tom for those four years." Moore told me two years ago that he remembered arriving at the Bierman Building on the Minnesota campus at 6:30 a.m. every day to find Dungy waiting, "so he could study a couple of cans of film before he went to class." Moore said, "Tony had the same passion as Peyton Manning. We did some no-huddle stuff, and he called a lot of his own plays." This was at Super Bowl XLI in Miami. Moore was sitting by himself, chatting about his Minnesota roots. Unsolicited, he looked up and said, reverently, "Tony's great." How often do we see a coach of Dungy's success and stature leave the job on his own terms, dignity intact, soaking in admiration from every corner of the country and every profession entwined with his? Maybe never, before now. The most successful NFL head coaches tend to believe they're Pattons in headsets. They win championships and earn the admiration of those closest to them, but they usually succeed either in spite of or because of a God complex. They leave bodies and careers strewn in their wake. I got to know Dungy when he worked for the Vikings, when he found a way to produce spectacular results while earning the admiration, even the love, of his players. Football historians will remember Dungy for breaking a racial barrier. Those who know Dungy prefer to think of him as unique in another way. People performed for Dungy because they admired him. They never wanted to disappoint such a charismatic and decent man. Nice article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I like Caldwell already. He dumped our horrible special teams coach... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I like Caldwell already. He dumped our horrible special teams coach... Now all he needs to do is convince Polian to draft/sign more DTs and Gs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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