Bill Swerski Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Manning certainly didn't deserve it either. One can make the argument that the NFL MVP should have gone to Harrison(Pitt) this year...because without him, they would have not been anywhere near the AFC championship. JMHO. Given how bad the Colts were in so many different phases of the game (couldn't run the ball, couldn't stop the run, etc.), Manning was clearly a top candidate. FWIW, Warner was as well. But he didn't get "robbed" in any sense of the word. Agreed to an extent about Harrison, although it's rare that a defensive player gets the award (LT in '86 was the last). I think that it's complete bullcrap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShiznit Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Given how bad the Colts were in so many different phases of the game (couldn't run the ball, couldn't stop the run, etc.), Manning was clearly a top candidate. FWIW, Warner was as well. But he didn't get "robbed" in any sense of the word. Agreed to an extent about Harrison, although it's rare that a defensive player gets the award (LT in '86 was the last). I think that it's complete bullcrap. It is bullcrap to say Warner got robbed for sure...Manning is after all pretty damn good as well. I judge the MVP on a couple of different levels: 1.) would this person make any team in the NFL a better team...and on this point, Peyton obviously has more votes than Harrison. 2.) Where did the team go this year and who is most responsible for their success.....I think this should get more credence...and I feel that even though Manning is mainly the reason the colts get anywhere....this year Harrison is pretty much the only reason why pittsburgh is where they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 IIRC Warner was in the running for the MVP until that debacle in New England. MVP is voted for by 50 sportscasters and their memory is about 3.5 days long. If they would wait until the end of the season + playoffs I don't know if the vote would have been near as lopsided (and perhaps Peyton wouldn't have won it at all). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish247 Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 And neither one of the teams were any good before he got there, and neither of the teams were/will be any good after he leaves. It's a pretty remarkable accomplishment, really. +1 Also remarkable... Warner is a guy that no team really seems to want. It could be for reasons we don't see or hear about on Sunday but THAT is also pretty remarkable. More food for thought... In NY, Warner was pushed aside to make way for the shiny new Eli. Both QBs avg vs PHI this season... Warner--257yds, 3.5 TDs, 1.5 ints Eli--161 yds, 1 TD, 1 int Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Negative. League MVP is a regular-season award and he put up weak performances in big games down the stretch. Hindsight is 20/20. Of course was lobbying for a Warner MVP award all year. Not a shocker here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziachild007 Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 You maybe can apply a Sayers argument to TD, but TD couldn't stay healthy nearly as long as Warner has, and Warner wasn't a rook until he was 27 or 28. Not even close. How many "great" seasons has Warner had? 5 by my count. But in those five seasons he was outstanding, including SBs, Pro Bowls, and MVP awards. Same thing goes for TD. He only had 4 great seasons, but all of them were outstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish247 Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 More on the many arguments FOR Warner... HERE The performance gives him this eye-popping postseason line for his career. 230 of 360 (63.9%), 2,991 yards, 8.31 YPA, 23 TD, 12 INT, 97.3 passer rating. If it looks impressive, it is. In the process of his nearly perfect statistical performance Sunday, Warner leaped past Joe Montana (95.6) and into second place on the all-time postseason passer rating list. Only the great Bart Starr (104.8), for our money the best quarterback in history, was more effective than Warner in the postseason. That gives Warner an 8-2 mark in postseason play as he heads to the Super Bowl for the third time. Among active quarterbacks, only Tom Brady has a better playoff record (14-3; .824) or has played in more Super Bowls (four). In all of history, only Brady and Starr (9-1) boast better postseason records. Warner in the postseason: 230 of 360 (63.9%), 2,991 yards, 8.31, 23 TD, 12 INT, 97.3 passer rating. Manning in the postseason: 348 of 565 (61.6%), 4,207 yards, 7.4 YPA, 22 TD, 17 INT, 84.9 passer rating. Here's what we see in these numbers: Warner’s postseason passer rating is actually better than his regular-season passer rating. Manning’s postseason passer rating is much lower than his regular-season passer rating. Warner is better than Manning in every single efficiency stat and has actually thrown more postseason TD passes than Manning (23 to 22) – despite the fact that he’s played in five fewer postseason games. And the bottom line... He’s as good statistically as any quarterback who’s ever played the game. He's also a two-time MVP, a Super Bowl champion and a Super Bowl MVP. He’ll soon be on the short list of quarterbacks who have started three Super Bowls and he’s on an even shorter list – a list that includes only him – of quarterbacks who got to those three Super Bowls with two different teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish247 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 More on the many arguments FOR Warner... HERE ... Oh and about Manning having a 'bad' Colts supporting cast this year... Warner led Arizona through the greatest stretch of football in team history, and reaches the Super Bowl with what's easily the worst defense (426 points allowed) that's ever appeared in a championship game. Oh and what was the only rushing offense worse than Indy (by total rush ypg) for the 2008 regular season... that would be Arizona. 79.6 rush ypg vs. 73.6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 How many "great" seasons has Warner had? 5 by my count. But in those five seasons he was outstanding, including SBs, Pro Bowls, and MVP awards. Same thing goes for TD. He only had 4 great seasons, but all of them were outstanding. The big difference is that TD didn't do it with two different teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Couch Potatoe Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 He's got my vote! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 The big difference is that TD didn't do it with two different teams. And over a time span of 9 years as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 of course he goes to the Hall. he's taken two teams that two other QBs had, and turned them into SB contenders where the other QBs couldn't. That's some good QB'ing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoog Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 A couple of months ago, I thought that he was unlikely to get in. But I think that yesterday was the tipping point. Two really good seasons in ARI, a brilliant performance in the playoffs, and taking that lowly franchise to the SB (even if they don't win) should garner him enough votes. And I'm glad that he earned it on the field, rather than getting in via "nice guy" sympathy votes. Though the "nice guy" thing is always a bonus in the era of boneheads playing the game. I don't think he has to win it to get in. He has done it with a team that was loaded with weapons and a team he had to carry on his back (Fitz can't throw himself the ball). Go Kurt, GO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Roller Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Though the "nice guy" thing is always a bonus in the era of boneheads playing the game. I don't think he has to win it to get in. He has done it with a team that was loaded with weapons and a team he had to carry on his back (Fitz can't throw himself the ball). Go Kurt, GO! I, the Holy Roller, being of sound mind and body, do wholeheartedly agree with McBoog in this matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziachild007 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 of course he goes to the Hall. he's taken two teams that two other QBs had, and turned them into SB contenders where the other QBs couldn't. That's some good QB'ing... In Trent Green's defense, he never really "had" the Rams the first go around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Though the "nice guy" thing is always a bonus in the era of boneheads playing the game. Absolutely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winks Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I live in Phoenix (8 years now). Went to college in Pittsburgh and am a diehard Steeler fan. But, I have to say that Kurt did something now even the beloved St. Terrence of Bradshaw never did - he took a team without any self-confidence or faith in itself and built it up into a winner. Bradshaw had Franco and Lambert and Ham and Greenwood and Swannie and on down the list. Big Ben had Fast Willie and Holmes and Ward and a defense that would stop the Soviet Army. What did Kurt have - a bunch of guys who saw themselves as losers. He was not even first choice for QB - he was to be a stable pony for Mixed Up Matt. And what did Kurt do? He walked out among the other players and said "Follow Me." He electrified a city. When the season started there was no defense; there was no running game; there was a questionable O line. There was Boldin in a contract snitl. There was just Fitzgerald - and he was always second fiddle to Boldin. And what did Kurt do? He won. He set an example and a standard. Manning?:? Pshaw!! An MVP should be the ONE player which if a team did not have him, they would not have won. Not only should Warner be MVP this past season, he should be a HOF lock. And, against every Steeler drop of black and gold in my veins, I would like to see him and the rest of the Cards do it in the SB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I believe Superbowl MVP is worth more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyalboyd Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I believe he is a lock for the HOF regardless of what happens. This is unheard of Cardz going to SB. This was by him stepping up in all the right times. But I do hope they win the SB and Warner is MVP. That gives Warner a reason to leave on top and give the reins over to Matt Leinart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShiznit Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I believe he is a lock for the HOF regardless of what happens. This is unheard of Cardz going to SB. This was by him stepping up in all the right times. But I do hope they win the SB and Warner is MVP. That gives Warner a reason to leave on top and give the reins over to Matt Leinart. Says the selfish dynasty Leinart owner...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoog Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I live in Phoenix (8 years now). Went to college in Pittsburgh and am a diehard Steeler fan. But, I have to say that Kurt did something now even the beloved St. Terrence of Bradshaw never did - he took a team without any self-confidence or faith in itself and built it up into a winner. Bradshaw had Franco and Lambert and Ham and Greenwood and Swannie and on down the list. Big Ben had Fast Willie and Holmes and Ward and a defense that would stop the Soviet Army. What did Kurt have - a bunch of guys who saw themselves as losers. He was not even first choice for QB - he was to be a stable pony for Mixed Up Matt. And what did Kurt do? He walked out among the other players and said "Follow Me." He electrified a city. When the season started there was no defense; there was no running game; there was a questionable O line. There was Boldin in a contract snitl. There was just Fitzgerald - and he was always second fiddle to Boldin. And what did Kurt do? He won. He set an example and a standard. Manning?:? Pshaw!! An MVP should be the ONE player which if a team did not have him, they would not have won. Not only should Warner be MVP this past season, he should be a HOF lock. And, against every Steeler drop of black and gold in my veins, I would like to see him and the rest of the Cards do it in the SB. Great post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 Well? Does he get in after yesterday, or not? Good: 377 yards passing, the 2nd most ever in a SB (Warner is also #1 and #3 on this list from his other two SBs) Three TDs Hugh plays in the 4th quarter Bad: 1 INT (pick six to end the first half) 1 Fumble (to end the game) ARI lost As an aside, I cannot see him retiring after this game. I do not think he wants the last thing he did on the football field be fumbling the ball at the end of the SB... ....................... All Time SB Performance Rankings (after yesterday): 2nd all time in completed passes in the SB (tied w/ Joe Montana; TBrady has 100 completions) 2nd all time in completed passes in a single SB (tied w/ Jim Kelly in SB 28) 1st all time in yards passing in the SB 1st, 2nd and 3rd all time in passing yards in a single SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
policyvote Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I was rooting for the Cards to lose almost entirely because I do not want to see any more of this talk. Warner was a lucky-to-be-there cog in an unstoppable offensive machine in St. Louis, was either awful or on the bench for the rest of his career, and he very nearly wasn't even the starting quarterback this year. Hall of Fame QBs don't go to Super Bowls with different teams because their original teams don't let them go. The Hall of Fame is for singular, dominant players that were outstanding their entire careers. Warner's spent more time as a castoff/also-ran/backup than he has as a starter, for crying out loud! No, no, no, no, no. Peace policy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Hall of Fame QBs don't go to Super Bowls with different teams because their original teams don't let them go. The Hall of Fame is for singular, dominant players that were outstanding their entire careers. Warner's spent more time as a castoff/also-ran/backup than he has as a starter, for crying out loud! That's ridiculous. Dude locked it up yesterday: he won that game, then watched Pitt take it from his D. He won't be kept out because of that. And guys don't take multiple teams to Super Bowls by 'being a lucky cog' - give me a break hater.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) I was rooting for the Cards to lose almost entirely because I do not want to see any more of this talk. Warner was a lucky-to-be-there cog in an unstoppable offensive machine in St. Louis, was either awful or on the bench for the rest of his career, and he very nearly wasn't even the starting quarterback this year. Hall of Fame QBs don't go to Super Bowls with different teams because their original teams don't let them go. The Hall of Fame is for singular, dominant players that were outstanding their entire careers. Warner's spent more time as a castoff/also-ran/backup than he has as a starter, for crying out loud! No, no, no, no, no. Peace policy How many HOF SB winning QB's went on to QB other teams? Cmon man thats a lame argument. Edited February 3, 2009 by tazinib1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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