Egret Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Two years ago, the Lions lost $3.1 million, which, according to an editor at Forbes magazine who spends much of his year breaking down the worth of NFL teams, is not an easy thing to do.Advertisement Forbes' research found that the Lions were the only NFL team to lose money in the 2007 season. Wow. I had assumed that even though the Lions were craptacular they were making money. The games were all sold out until this season when an 0-16 year finally had fans stop showing up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheikYerbuti Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Wow. I had assumed that even though the Lions were craptacular they were making money. The games were all sold out until this season when an 0-16 year finally had fans stop showing up. Musta been all those high priced free agent signings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 From the link, this looks like the main culprit: For example, according to Forbes, in 2007 the Lions generated roughly $21 million from suite and club seat licensing revenue. By contrast, the Jacksonville Jaguars, a much newer team in a far smaller market, produced about $24 million in corporate sales. Add the lack of shirt and other paraphernalia sales to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Add the lack of shirt and other paraphernalia sales to that. With the exception of stuff they sell themselves (which is a small percentage of all sales), the revenue from those from all teams are shared amongst all teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Are they still paying players like Charles Rogers and fired coaches and Millen? They are 29th in being under the cap. That doesn't include coaches and Millen. They are spending money, just not in good places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 With the exception of stuff they sell themselves (which is a small percentage of all sales), the revenue from those from all teams are shared amongst all teams. Forgot about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrudge Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 When Millen took over after the 2000 season, Forbes estimates the club was worth $328 million. Eight seasons and 97 losses later, it's $917 million.As long as you can weather the jokes and criticism, who cares about losing a million or two in operating expenses when your product triples in value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 As long as you can weather the jokes and criticism, who cares about losing a million or two in operating expenses when your product triples in value. Are you an accountant? A lot of people care about winning. All NFL teams are increasing in value because the league is so popular, even the poorly run ones. Why not give your fans something to cheer for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Are you an accountant? Web developer for a hardware co-op. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Web developer for a hardware co-op. Thanks. Football is a business, but is more than most because of how many teams are integrated into the communities they serve. Winning has a great effect on people's lives in some cases. I know a lot of cheeseheads working in Minneapolis who have an easier time at work when the Packers win. And vice versa. Sports teams are unusual businesses especially in a small city like Green Bay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 A lot of people care about winning. All NFL teams are increasing in value because the league is so popular, even the poorly run ones. Why not give your fans something to cheer for? Because they don't have to. Don't delude yourself that owners are all sports fans - many aren't. Football is a business, but is more than most because of how many teams are integrated into the communities they serve. Communities they serve? Most of them demand stadiums priced at half a billion and up, rip off fans all day every day and move cities at the drop of a hat in search of the almighty dollar. Newsflash: They don't actually give two chits about you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrudge Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Are you an accountant? A lot of people care about winning. All NFL teams are increasing in value because the league is so popular, even the poorly run ones. Why not give your fans something to cheer for? Yes, I'm sure no one actively tries to suck. But say the Lions lost an average of two each year since 2000. It's a made up number but it should exceed what was actually lost and is just for illustrative purposes. A $16m loss from operating expenses is more then offset by the $600m in appreciation. Sure every owner would rather operate in the black PLUS take the franchise appreciation, but I don't know too many investors that wouldn't still take those numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Yes, I'm sure no one actively tries to suck. But say the Lions lost an average of two each year since 2000. It's a made up number but it should exceed what was actually lost and is just for illustrative purposes. A $16m loss from operating expenses is more then offset by the $600m in appreciation. Sure every owner would rather operate in the black PLUS take the franchise appreciation, but I don't know too many investors that wouldn't still take those numbers. Yes under Mr. Ford Matt Millen's record didn't seem to matter much. The protesting fans didn't seem to either. Loyalty seemed to be more important than the product they produced. I wonder just how many former players and coaches they still have to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 This just reminds me of why the NFL is such a money making machine, because they have the most loyal customers you could ever want. The loyalty is almost perverse and unlike anything that any non-sports related business enjoys. If the team you've always rooted for starts operating itself like the Lions and you jump ship? You're labeled a "fair weather fan". It somehow is a poor reflection on your character to make your allegiance conditional on the fact that they run their business well. Think about any other business. Say there's a pizza place in your neighborhood. Always been there, always made great pies, and was a place where everyone you knew would hang out. Then dude retires and his kid takes over. Only his kid is a hack and the place goes down hill quick. Dirty, out of repair, ovens don't work right so the pies come out unevenly cooked, etc. How long does it take for everyone to stop going there? Not long at all and nobody, but nobody will take crap for going elsewhere because the kid isn't holding up his end of the deal. Tradition may be enough to carry him if the pies are no longer amazing and merely good, but if he turns into the Lions of the pizza world, he's done and done quick. Maybe you've got a favorite actor or director. How many crappy movies in a row do they have to make before you bail on them. In fact, that's also ironic. The players, themselves often don't get the same unconditional love as the teams. Guy could have given 10 great years to a team. Loses a step or two? See ya. Coaches and players are held to an unreal level of accountability but not the teams themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I'm almost with you Detlef. Maybe a couple more analogies and I'll understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 (edited) I'm almost with you Detlef. Maybe a couple more analogies and I'll understand. You're a Lions fan, so I'm pretty sure it would take more than a couple. Edited January 26, 2009 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 This just reminds me of why the NFL is such a money making machine, because they have the most loyal customers you could ever want. The loyalty is almost perverse and unlike anything that any non-sports related business enjoys. If the team you've always rooted for starts operating itself like the Lions and you jump ship? You're labeled a "fair weather fan". It somehow is a poor reflection on your character to make your allegiance conditional on the fact that they run their business well.... Coaches and players are held to an unreal level of accountability but not the teams themselves. It has been suggested the Cowboys cut Jerry Jones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 It has been suggested the Cowboys cut Jerry Jones. Ironically, in some ways, he's doing an amazing job. I don't know how many f'ing Cowboy games you got in your region this year but the only team I saw more than them was the Panthers. Maybe the Steelers, but for some reason there's a ton of Pittsburgh transplants down here. None the less, the hype machine he's created is impressive even if the results on the field are less so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Coaches and players are held to an unreal level of accountability but not the teams themselves. True dat. Is this the downside of revenue sharing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Ironically, in some ways, he's doing an amazing job. I don't know how many f'ing Cowboy games you got in your region this year but the only team I saw more than them was the Panthers. Maybe the Steelers, but for some reason there's a ton of Pittsburgh transplants down here. None the less, the hype machine he's created is impressive even if the results on the field are less so. He does have talents but tends to make bad football decisions at times. When Parcells was there his bad instincts were held in check I thought. If he could find a football man as GM that could work with him it would be an improvement but that person would have to have the power to overrule the boss. He could be an effective PR machine but doubt he could stay there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 True dat. Is this the downside of revenue sharing? Certainly the downside to the fans. As far as the teams are concerned, they should all be happily sharing the pot because they're all smart enough to realize that this thing is bigger than any of them and can thank the overall machine that is the NFL for making all of their franchises as insanely valuable as they are. You could argue that the better run teams are subsidizing the worse ones, but I think you'd be wrong. They're all just a small piece of a money generating machine that can, again, thank a downright illogical level of allegiance from it's customer base for the continued success it enjoys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Sports teams are unusual businesses especially in a small city like Green Bay. Is that why Jets fans are equally irrational in their devotion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.