Patsfan39 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Jets released WR Laveranues Coles. Obviously to save money. But he was pretty decent, doesn't make too much sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 malcontent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) There you go Philly fans. A perfect fit. He'll be sleeping on Chad's door step tonight. Edited February 25, 2009 by tazinib1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballjoe Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I did not expect this to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Salary cap casulties seem to be happening all over the league? Is it cuz the CBA contract runs out next year? That and perhpas they are thinking that it is possible the cap will be lowered like it will be next year for the NBA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballjoe Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Would someone please inform the Redskins front office of what may happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAUG Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I bet his agent -and- Pennington's have already called the Dolphins. I agree, I'm sure he'll be on a plane to Miami by Fri. He would fit in nicely as a phin and they really need WR help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDFFFreak Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 There you go Philly fans. A perfect fit. He'll be sleeping on Chad's door step tonight. I think I might like Coles better for Philly than Harrison. Am I nuts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WashingtonD Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Why would you be nuts? Coles is 5 years younger. Coles is coming off of a better season, with a wildly inconsistent QB. Coles has been incredibly durable over his career missing only 4 games since 2001. Coles has 1-2 more solid years ahead of him, Marvin Harrison has jumped the shark in a truly epic way (in fact he may have actually not jumped the shark, but become a shark snack. WashD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 The way Harrison was dropping the ball cuz an on-coming defender was charging in, there's no wasy the Marvin was even in the water to be eaten. I blame the Patriots for that playoff game a few years back when they absolutely got lit up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 The way Harrison was dropping the ball cuz an on-coming defender was charging in, there's no wasy the Marvin was even in the water to be eaten. When did this happen? I mean, you can say he wasn't as open as he used to be, or that he wasn't targeted by Manning as much as in the past, but when was Marvin dropping balls? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I saw highlights on ESPN when they were discussing it. They pointed out that Marvin would go for the ball, see two defenders coming from different angles and you can see Harrison avoid the hit and miss the catch. I've never seen Marvin do this. Ever. And I've watched every game. He will slide down before contact. Or he'll run out of bound instead of getting tackled, but he does not give up on balls to avoid getting hit. When was this on ESPN? What games did this happen in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I've never seen Marvin do this. Ever. And I've watched every game. He will slide down before contact. Or he'll run out of bound instead of getting tackled, but he does not give up on balls to avoid getting hit. When was this on ESPN? What games did this happen in? I saw that highlight (lowlight) reel too. He was definitely ducking before he caught the ball. Clear case of alligator arms. Can't say what games, but they showed 3 maybe 4 plays like that. I also can't say if they were all from last year either. The piece was all about how Marvin is not what he uused to be. Asfar as Coles goes, no surprise, and his constant whining had worn pretty thin even on Jet fans that liked him. I admire how he played hurt, always took the hit to make the catch, but he is one hit away from having his gray matter turned into mush. I think he had 3 or 4 concussions just last year. The Jets won't need many WR's this year. They also cut Chris Baker. Ryan has signed B Scott, traded for Lito Sheppard, will sign Leonhard and Cory Ivy, resigned Moore, the RG. he wants to build a top 3 defense and run the ball, that's it. He wants an attack D that scores points. He wants to run the ball 40 times a game. He wants to win by scores like 13-10. Kerry Rhodes will return to IDP stud status. Good for IDP fantasy owners, not so good for the offense. Watch how the Jets will draft. Mostly D, maybe an RB, maybe an O linemen, but otherwise all D. No WR's, no QB's. It's going to be Ratliff or Clemens. Late round picks may deviate, like a blocking TE, but he plan is clear. Thomas jones could have 400 carries next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 The day the news he was leaving the Colts for good, there were three guys on ESPN talking about him and how his career is done. Specifically, mark schlereth broke down a few plays in slow-mo and showed Harrison doing this. If you don't want to believe what i'm saying, ok, just telling you what I saw and the comments from analysts. We all know he does it. It's just homer glasses blinding him. From USATODAY: Nov. 9, 2008 - 9:15 p.m. ET Marvin Harrison was held to 37 yards on three receptions against the Steelers in Week 10. Harrison dropped two potential touchdown passes, both of which he got two hands on. He's simply not the player he once was, and is quickly fading to the third or fourth option on this offense. He suffered a mild concussion in the third quarter, but remained in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 NFL Leaders: Pass Dropped (Thru Dec. 28, 2008) Rank Player Team Stats 1 Braylon Edwards Cle 16 2 Dwayne Bowe KC 13 3 Brandon Marshall Den 12 4 Terrell Owens Dal 10 5t Calvin Johnson Det 9 5t Roddy White Atl 9 7t Laveranues Coles NYJ 8 7t Marques Colston NO 8 7t Greg Jennings GB 8 7t Marcedes Lewis Jac 8 7t Marshawn Lynch Buf 8 7t Santana Moss Was 8 7t Muhsin Muhammad Car 8 14t Bernard Berrian Min 7 14t Dallas Clark Ind 7 14t Rashied Davis Chi 7 14t Anthony Gonzalez Ind 7 14t Hines Ward Pit 7 19t Donald Driver GB 6 19t Warrick Dunn TB 6 19t Bobby Engram Sea 6 19t Jabar Gaffney NE 6 19t Justin Gage Ten 6 19t Ted Ginn Jr. Mia 6 19t Madison Hedgecock NYG 6 19t Santonio Holmes Pit 6 19t DeSean Jackson Phi 6 19t Steven Jackson StL 6 19t Chad Johnson Cin 6 19t Zach Miller Oak 6 19t Randy Moss NE 6 19t Koren Robinson Sea 6 19t Robert Royal Buf 6 19t L.J. Smith Phi 6 19t Steve Smith Car 6 19t Amani Toomer NYG 6 19t Bobby Wade Min 6 He didn't even drop the most passes on his own team. He's not in the top 40 in the NFL in drops. Two players on his own team dropped more balls than him. And guess what? So did Randy Moss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Coles' first visit is to Buffalo?! yeah...so was fred taylors.....i have a good idea where coles' second visit might be..... bill has expressed his admiration for coles in the past....and i believe when coles was in washington he had trade talks with them about coles....our receiving corps is very thin....and gaffney is in denver now....although they might have concluded that coles' best day are behind him now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 (edited) I'm in no way saying Marvin is still great. Or even that he shouldn't have been cut. His cap number was #1 for WR's. No way can that happen. And he definitely had trouble getting open last year. Let's face it, he doesn't have the body to be a posession WR. He just wasn't making the plays we are accustomed to seeing. He did not drop an inordinate amount of balls (as shown in the above list). In my opion, he didn't give up on balls to avoid contact. But he is undoubtedly on the downside of his career, and I don't blame the Colts for moving on after he would not renegotiate. I just disagreed with the comment that the drops were a common occurence. They weren't. I guarantee you could find a few plays from every WR in the NFL each year where they dropped balls. He still caught 61 balls for 600+ yards and 5 TD's. You guys are acting like he turned into Charles Rogers. Edited February 28, 2009 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 NFL Leaders: Pass Dropped (Thru Dec. 28, 2008)Rank Player Team Stats 1 Braylon Edwards Cle 16 2 Dwayne Bowe KC 13 3 Brandon Marshall Den 12 4 Terrell Owens Dal 10 5t Calvin Johnson Det 9 5t Roddy White Atl 9 7t Laveranues Coles NYJ 8 7t Marques Colston NO 8 7t Greg Jennings GB 8 7t Marcedes Lewis Jac 8 7t Marshawn Lynch Buf 8 7t Santana Moss Was 8 7t Muhsin Muhammad Car 8 14t Bernard Berrian Min 7 14t Dallas Clark Ind 7 14t Rashied Davis Chi 7 14t Anthony Gonzalez Ind 7 14t Hines Ward Pit 7 19t Donald Driver GB 6 19t Warrick Dunn TB 6 19t Bobby Engram Sea 6 19t Jabar Gaffney NE 6 19t Justin Gage Ten 6 19t Ted Ginn Jr. Mia 6 19t Madison Hedgecock NYG 6 19t Santonio Holmes Pit 6 19t DeSean Jackson Phi 6 19t Steven Jackson StL 6 19t Chad Johnson Cin 6 19t Zach Miller Oak 6 19t Randy Moss NE 6 19t Koren Robinson Sea 6 19t Robert Royal Buf 6 19t L.J. Smith Phi 6 19t Steve Smith Car 6 19t Amani Toomer NYG 6 19t Bobby Wade Min 6 He didn't even drop the most passes on his own team. He's not in the top 40 in the NFL in drops. Two players on his own team dropped more balls than him. And guess what? So did Randy Moss. i can still see jabar gaffney running free down the left sideline at lucas oild stadium, as a beautifully thrown ball, bounces off his fingers thanks for reminding me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ts Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 (edited) Just curious, but who determines the definition of a "drop" for the purpose of official scoring? Elias? The local "official scorer" at the game? I'm wondering simply to get a sense for whether or not local bias might come into play - as it frequently does (or at least did) in baseball scoring, where some home team official scorers are more inclined to award errors rather than hits on borderline plays as opposed to the scorers in other cities. In addition, I'd love to see stats on ratio of drops vs. targets, say for players targeted more than 20 times if not just for the "leaders" listed above ... I mean ... Madison Hedgecock had 6 drops? How many times was he thrown to during the season? E2A: I knew the Huddle had target numbers, but did not realize that they are now tracked to the Madison Hedgecock level of the world ... no pre-calculated ratio of drops to targets or completions (the Huddle does not list drops), but it would be easy enough for anyone that desires to figure that out from the raw target & completion numbers provided at the Huddle as compared to the "drops" list. And, for those scoring at home, it seems Hedgecock was targeted 15 times with 8 completions to go along with his 6 drops. http://www.thehuddle.com/stats/2008/plays_...&col=PLAYER OK - after some quick work in Excel, here is the NFL dropped pass leader list (WRs only) in terms of completion vs. drops ratio, for players targeted at least 20 times, where the "number of drops" stat was available: 0.291 Braylon Edwards0.200 Rashied Davis0.194 Koren Robinson0.176 Justin Gage0.170 Marques Colston0.158 Jabar Gaffney0.151 Dwayne Bowe0.146 Bernard Berrian0.145 Terrell Owens0.128 Bobby Engram0.125 Amani Toomer0.123 Muhsin Muhammad0.123 Anthony Gonzalez0.115 Brandon Marshall0.115 Calvin Johnson0.114 Laveranues Coles0.113 Bobby Wade0.113 Chad Johnson0.109 Santonio Holmes0.107 Ted Ginn Jr.0.102 Roddy White0.101 Santana Moss0.100 Greg Jennings0.097 DeSean Jackson0.087 Randy Moss0.086 Hines Ward0.081 Donald Driver0.077 Steve Smith Edited March 1, 2009 by ts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Just curious, but who determines the definition of a "drop" for the purpose of official scoring? Elias? The local "official scorer" at the game? I'm wondering simply to get a sense for whether or not local bias might come into play - as it frequently does (or at least did) in baseball scoring, where some home team official scorers are more inclined to award errors rather than hits on borderline plays as opposed to the scorers in other cities. In addition, I'd love to see stats on ratio of drops vs. targets, say for players targeted more than 20 times if not just for the "leaders" listed above ... I mean ... Madison Hedgecock had 6 drops? How many times was he thrown to during the season? They had something like that at KFFL for awhile but it seems its disappeared...either that or I just can't find it anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 (edited) I don't think it's an official NFL stat. If it is, I couldn't find it on NFL.com. The list I found from two different sources and the stats were the same at each location. Edited February 28, 2009 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 (edited) i can still see jabar gaffney running free down the left sideline at lucas oild stadium, as a beautifully thrown ball, bounces off his fingers thanks for reminding me yer welcome. If that play, or the QB sneak where ol' Bill calls a time-out on fourth down, maybe the Pats make the play-offs . . . Edited February 28, 2009 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I'm in no way saying Marvin is still great. Or even that he shouldn't have been cut. His cap number was #1 for WR's. No way can that happen. And he definitely had trouble getting open last year. Let's face it, he doesn't have the body to be a posession WR. He just wasn't making the plays we are accustomed to seeing. He did not drop an inordinate amount of balls (as shown in the above list). In my opion, he didn't give up on balls to avoid contact. But he is undoubtedly on the downside of his career, and I don't blame the Colts for moving on after he would not renegotiate. I just disagreed with the comment that the drops were a common occurence. They weren't. I guarantee you could find a few plays from every WR in the NFL each year where they dropped balls. He still caught 61 balls for 600+ yards and 5 TD's. You guys are acting like he turned into Charles Rogers. This anonymous AFC personnel person thinks otherwise. As does Paul Kuharsky. Personnel guy No. 2: "He's not that threat like he used to be where he's just going to take it from anywhere on the field. He still runs OK, but not like he used to." Potential role elsewhere: He hasn't been a No. 1 in Indianapolis in a while with Reggie Wayne's ascendance, and Harrison isn't going to be the top option for another team either. Will it be hard for him to accept a lesser status? One interesting issue here is his willingness to be physical. There were passes from Peyton Manning last year on which Harrison seemed to pull up or shy away from an approaching defender. That might not go over well in a new setting. Personnel guy No. 2: "You can let him come down as a solid veteran possession receiver that can get away from press, that can find holes in zone, that can still run good routes and be productive." Personnel guy No. 1: "The thing is, people have really knocked him for the lack of physicality and he seems to be a little bit more protective as a player than he was in the past ... http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcsouth/0-7-60...-Harrison-.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 (edited) Marvin's never been a physical WR. Ever. He made several tough catches with contact last year. And he was still a productive WR. His days as a #1 WR are obviously done. He isn't as fast as he used to be. Thanks for digging up that article and confirming everything I just said. All I said was that I disagree that he gave up on balls to avoid getting hit. I can think of a couple balls where he could've made better effort, but I don't remember them being to avoid contact. He just seemed a step slow last year. He seemed average, which he's never been. I'm sure the knee injury/age had a lot to do with it. For example, in the Pittsburgh game, I remember the TD he dropped. Double coverage. He had both hands on the ball. Somehow the ball got between both defenders and hit Marvin in his outstretched hands and slid through. Neither defender ever touched him. As he fell, he spun and landed on his back and hit his head on the turf. The Colts later reported he had a mild concussion. He didn't try to duck the defenders. He just flat dropped a tough pass. Those are the catches he would routinely make in the past that he didn't make last year. Edited February 28, 2009 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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