McBoog Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 This may have been posted but I caved for the first time in a year and took some "strong" painkillers (my first back surgery two X-mas ago only helped short term. I am looking at a three level fusion next month ) and, well, I didn't notice or remember seeing it anywhere. Please forgive if this a little goofier than normal. When you look at the opportunity and privilege given our pro athletes. I just don't see, independent of how much THE OWNERS (they after all do own and are exposed to the financial rish of the business) make, how we continue to pay the kind of money to pro-athletes. It is a reality that few, even with the "gifts" ever achieve and by chasing it, we create people that cannot do anything that their time in college should have them prepared for in the real world. This is a list of NFL arrests/citations since 2000. Pitiful! I have been closer to the pro-game than most will ever have the chance to see. There are some awesome, fun, smart kids that play this game, and unfortunately, a lot of the ones I have liked the most are the ones that were "Bubble guys", in the league for a few years, mostly special teams and camp fodder. They are also the ones that generally are more able to step away from the game and survive without it. Not sure why I was compelled to share this, but, Happy Easter! John 3:16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 They get paid so much because people are willing to pay for merchandise, special satellite subscriptions, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Is the arrest rate for NFL players out of line with the general population? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyOne Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Is the arrest rate for NFL players out of line with the general population? Not read it all, but this FBI thing says: "In 2004, the estimated rate of arrests in the Nation was 4,752.4 arrests per 100,000 residents." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Everyone is a role model. I wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Is the arrest rate for NFL players out of line with the general population? If Josh Gordon were legal how many fewer incarcerations would we have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Not read it all, but this FBI thing says: "In 2004, the estimated rate of arrests in the Nation was 4,752.4 arrests per 100,000 residents." So, technically, the NFL has about 60 arrests in a year, while the general population has about 75 in the same sample size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Not sure whether you're going somewhere with this or just grazing... The NFL is a perfect example of a clearing house effect on salaries - the market pays pro athletes what the market can bear, with individuals' salaries tailored to their abilities. Those that do not present value at their assigned salary are cast to the wayside where they must renegotiate their salary to remain employed in the league. The league has created a fair value trade-off system, where players are paid substantial amounts up front (signing/roster bonuses) before ever playing for a team for the trade off of being cut if they do not bring appropriate value to the team. That some players end up running out of money after they finish their careers and can't make enough in the "real world" is capitalism at work, with those who make poor judgments being penalized, whereas those who plan ahead and at least pay attention to their investments obtaining a life time's worth of earnings for the short period in which they accept the risk of playing the violent game that they do. If those who are given a free secondary education prior to entering the pro game choose not to take advantage of that opportunity in order to establish alternatives in the event that a pro career does not end as well as they might wish, that onus goes on their lack of foresight. Some players use poor judgment in their personal behavior, which again impacts their earning and career sustainability power - and rightfully so after opting for a high profile/high paying line or employment of which they are made fully aware of the consequences of their actions. People control their own behavior, or at worst should employ others who can manage them while they have the opportunity to amass wealth. That they opt not to do so appropriately again goes on them. In any case, Happy Easter, my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoog Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 Not sure whether you're going somewhere with this or just grazing... The NFL is a perfect example of a clearing house effect on salaries - the market pays pro athletes what the market can bear, with individuals' salaries tailored to their abilities. Those that do not present value at their assigned salary are cast to the wayside where they must renegotiate their salary to remain employed in the league. The league has created a fair value trade-off system, where players are paid substantial amounts up front (signing/roster bonuses) before ever playing for a team for the trade off of being cut if they do not bring appropriate value to the team. That some players end up running out of money after they finish their careers and can't make enough in the "real world" is capitalism at work, with those who make poor judgments being penalized, whereas those who plan ahead and at least pay attention to their investments obtaining a life time's worth of earnings for the short period in which they accept the risk of playing the violent game that they do. If those who are given a free secondary education prior to entering the pro game choose not to take advantage of that opportunity in order to establish alternatives in the event that a pro career does not end as well as they might wish, that onus goes on their lack of foresight. Some players use poor judgment in their personal behavior, which again impacts their earning and career sustainability power - and rightfully so after opting for a high profile/high paying line or employment of which they are made fully aware of the consequences of their actions. People control their own behavior, or at worst should employ others who can manage them while they have the opportunity to amass wealth. That they opt not to do so appropriately again goes on them. In any case, Happy Easter, my friend. Dude! Just grazing! I had Oxy running through the brain last night and it may not have been the best time to "share". You lay the base of what I feel perfectly. I still think they are overpaid for what they do. I also think that they should have problems with the law at a SIGNIFICANTLY lower rate than the rest of the population. Most of these guys, having been coddled through high school and college (I was one of them for a while) are socially retarded and have the maturity of a 14 year old (some would say here look at Jay Cutler or Phillip Rivers as examples of this). Why we give a BIGGER platform from which to opine to both our Hollywood and Sports celebrities is beyond me. They need to be held to a higher standard if they are to be a beacon of achievement and representative opinion in our society. What our teachers, soldiers and law enforcement officers, etc. do every day has much more impact on the world than a few thousand big strong guys with suppressed social skills (by-and-large). Where have all the John Adams (and son), George Washingtons, Thomas Jeffersons, George Masons, Ben Franklins, Alexander Hamiltoms, Abe Lincolns and Teddy Roosevelts gone? Now we get excited about Warren Sapp on the "Larry the Cabel Guy" roast and Dancing with the Stars. Have we really become this shallow as a society? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Sure they are overpaid but so are many other entertainers. Some actors get $20 million+ a movie and make more than one a year. CEO's of bad companies get tens or hundreds of $millions. It's a nationwide problem. Athletes aren't the only ones who need to be held to higher standards. Where have the leaders gone? Since Watergate and the bashing of government service("The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help.") those who say they want to help and looked down upon or their sanity questioned. When someone says they want to serve their country unless they are in the military they are considered dumb or corrupt by many. Even Pat Tillman was bashed by some for joining the military. Money is too highly valued in my opinion. Once you have $40 how important is the next $40 million really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Where have all the John Adams (and son), George Washingtons, Thomas Jeffersons, George Masons, Ben Franklins, Alexander Hamiltoms, Abe Lincolns and Teddy Roosevelts gone? If they lived in this day & age, they wouldn't run for office either. Politicians these days can't even be considered a shadow of our former leaders. The media tears them apart from day one based upon ideology from one side or the other, apparently determining that it is their job to get "their" guy in office, who of course will no doubt then solve every crisis known to mankind. Adams, Washington, Jefferson, and the rest would probably be smart enough to stay far, far away from the fiasco of politics as we currently know it Now we get excited about Warren Sapp on the "Larry the Cabel Guy" roast and Dancing with the Stars. Have we really become this shallow as a society? Yes, we have become this shallow. It's why we get "leaders" like Bush & Obama (and roundly deserve them, I might add). This country is being turned into something that is a far cry from what our founding fathers ever envisioned. The real sad part is that we as a people don't even offer a whimper in watching its demise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Sure they are overpaid but so are many other entertainers. Some actors get $20 million+ a movie and make more than one a year. CEO's of bad companies get tens or hundreds of $millions. It's a nationwide problem. Athletes aren't the only ones who need to be held to higher standards. Where have the leaders gone? Since Watergate and the bashing of government service("The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help.") those who say they want to help and looked down upon or their sanity questioned. When someone says they want to serve their country unless they are in the military they are considered dumb or corrupt by many. Even Pat Tillman was bashed by some for joining the military. Money is too highly valued in my opinion. Once you have $40 how important is the next $40 million really? On PBS's Think Tank they discussed how in Europe the gap in salaries between the average worker and the rich really angers the society. But in America, the society isn't too concerned. It would be nice if the Depression 2 changes that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 On PBS's Think Tank they discussed how in Europe the gap in salaries between the average worker and the rich really angers the society. But in America, the society isn't too concerned. It would be nice if the Depression 2 changes that. I think we are concerned. If the top guy has to make more than 50-100 times what the the entry level worker makes is overkill. I don't like how the CEO's are paid by boards made up of CES's from other firms and they are against shareholders approving salaries and bonuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Overpaid!?!? Overpaid!?!? Seriously!?? Should we pay the rich owner instead!??! When I go to the game, why would I want my hard earned money to go to the owner?? That is absolutely ridiculous. The players deserve MORE, not less. We go to watch the players. I have never once paid money for anything involved with sports in hopes of being able to watch the owner. We've discussed this before, but IMO this is THE SINGLE BIGGEST BS ARGUMENT IN ALL OF SPORTS. What the heck did the owner do, other than inherit a bunch of money in most cases. I know this is going to start the same ol' circular debate, but in the event of a work stoppage........ what is going to stop the players from saying "okay, owners, you want to pay us less? Well then have fun working without us, we will start our own league". The fact is, if the players cut the owners out of the equation, and started their own league, 99% of the fans would watch. We watch the players, not the league or owners. We pay to watch these players doing amazing things. If you are worried that the players are making too much money, stop watching football. Stop paying to go to games. However, if pro football is going to continue to make this much money, it is only justified that the players are the ones making the profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Overpaid!?!? Overpaid!?!? Seriously!?? Should we pay the rich owner instead!??! When I go to the game, why would I want my hard earned money to go to the owner?? That is absolutely ridiculous. The players deserve MORE, not less. We go to watch the players. I have never once paid money for anything involved with sports in hopes of being able to watch the owner. We've discussed this before, but IMO this is THE SINGLE BIGGEST BS ARGUMENT IN ALL OF SPORTS. What the heck did the owner do, other than inherit a bunch of money in most cases. I know this is going to start the same ol' circular debate, but in the event of a work stoppage........ what is going to stop the players from saying "okay, owners, you want to pay us less? Well then have fun working without us, we will start our own league". The fact is, if the players cut the owners out of the equation, and started their own league, 99% of the fans would watch. We watch the players, not the league or owners. We pay to watch these players doing amazing things. If you are worried that the players are making too much money, stop watching football. Stop paying to go to games. However, if pro football is going to continue to make this much money, it is only justified that the players are the ones making the profit. Please, please, please tell me this is a nominee for worst fishing expedition of the year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 The fact is, if the players cut the owners out of the equation, and started their own league, 99% of the fans would watch. We watch the players, not the league or owners. We pay to watch these players doing amazing things. No, we pay to watch players do amazing things in the uniforms we root for. I am not an owners apologist by any means, but the fact is that players come and go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) No, we pay to watch players do amazing things in the uniforms we root for. I am not an owners apologist by any means, but the fact is that players come and go. Again, if our favorite college players were drafted into a league, we would watch that league. Are you telling me that if Tom Brady and LT were playing against Matt Hasselbeck and Lofa Tatupu at Seahawks stadium, you would not watch them because they would not be wearing Seattle Seahawks uniforms? Edited April 13, 2009 by Seahawks21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Again, if our favorite college players were drafted into a league, we would watch that league. It seems like this sentiment would work, but how many leagues have been attempted to fill any kind of void, be it markets or stadiums or TV programming, and failed? The AFL, the WFL, the USFL, the XFL, there's another one starting up this fall too, right? NFL Europe couldn't hack it. Arena football has barely been able to stay afloat. Same can be said about the CFL. For whatever reason, Americans prefer their pro football with NFL rules, on Sundays and Monday nights, with an occasional Thursday game thrown in. There's very little evidence that this league has anything to do with players other than suiting them up in particular laundry. Now if we were talking about the NBA, you'd be onto something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 It seems like this sentiment would work, but how many leagues have been attempted to fill any kind of void, be it markets or stadiums or TV programming, and failed? The AFL, the WFL, the USFL, the XFL, there's another one starting up this fall too, right? NFL Europe couldn't hack it. Arena football has barely been able to stay afloat. Same can be said about the CFL. A 6-team experimental league this late fall. And the AFL suspended operations this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoog Posted April 14, 2009 Author Share Posted April 14, 2009 Ben Franklin was asked what they had done after ratifying the Constitution. He replied, "We have given you a Republic... If you can keep it." Yoooo Hooooo. Where are you????? I think we lost it. Longer ago than most believe. Too many don't understand the difference between a Democracy and a Republic. One is the rule of the mob and the other is the rule of law. Modern US = Mob rule mentality. As for the above fishing expedition. The owners DESERVE TO MAKE ALL THE MONEY THEY WANT/CAN. They are the owners and they are the ones that incur the financial risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 It seems like this sentiment would work, but how many leagues have been attempted to fill any kind of void, be it markets or stadiums or TV programming, and failed? The AFL, the WFL, the USFL, the XFL, there's another one starting up this fall too, right? NFL Europe couldn't hack it. Arena football has barely been able to stay afloat. Same can be said about the CFL. For whatever reason, Americans prefer their pro football with NFL rules, on Sundays and Monday nights, with an occasional Thursday game thrown in. There's very little evidence that this league has anything to do with players other than suiting them up in particular laundry. Now if we were talking about the NBA, you'd be onto something. You can't compare leagues where the signature player was "He Hate Me" to a league that gets all of the best college players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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