Don Coryell and the Hall of Fame

[Clubfoothead]

I'd vote in.

[Chavez]

Okay, so let's look at Coryell's career; his Chargers days have been discussed ad nauseum here, and let's say that it's a nice run.

 

That gets all the pub but personally I think when you're talking the quality of coach he was, you've gotta look at his St Louis tenure; at face value, he has been the ONLY guy to have consistent success with the Cards' franchise - his 31-11 stretch from 74-76 is the team's high-water-mark of the past 60 years; future NFL champions (Buddy Parker), future college champions (Gene Stallings), former NFL champions (Curly Lambeau), and former college champoins (Bud Wilkinson) couldn't approach it.

 

And as much as people have been saying "it was personnel" in SD, ONE of his players from his St Louis tenure has made the HoF. And I don't think anyone is on deck.

 

Bottom line is that I view Coryell as a VERY good coach. Both SD and the Cards were MUCH better while he was there than they were before or after. However, while I feel it is unfair to judge players by championships*, I think that is to a large extent what you have to judge coaches and GMs on; and Coryell's 3-6 playoff record, no conference titles, is highly uninspiring. And since I don't consider him any particular sort of innovator**, he comes up short. Very good, not great.

 

* - or at least being right there in contention multiple times

 

** - well, depending on how much stock you put into the H-back

[Chavez]

Oh, and the line for "coaches who should be in the HoF but aren't" starts with Dan Reeves - 200 wins, 4 SB appearances.

[McBoog]

Again, I'll ask, how exactly did he change the game? I understand the vertical offense philosophy...

 

Not many of you read the article. Fouts admits that he doesn't make the Hall without Coryell.

 

The you are saying you have NO IDEA of the what Coryell ran an innovated?

 

The passing tree, greatly simplifying play calling and shortening time in the huddle and looking at rout running as a coordinated effort by all receivers coupled by the threat of having the ball pounded down your throat is what evolved the game.

 

Before Coryell, an "8" with a cut 12 yards used to be a Flag at a 10 to 15 break. Precise rout running and the integration of EVERY rout on the field, how it would all effect the defense and the concept of reads as to where the most likely receiver is going to be open with progressions, evolved from the "Coryelle" offense. QBs threw to a spot where the receiver should be, not to the open guy. Often the ball was thrown before the receiver had made his break.

 

Former coach of the St. Louis RamsMike Martz says "Don is the father of the modern passing game. People talk about the 'West Coast' offense, but Don started the 'West Coast' decades ago and kept updating it. You look around the NFL now, and so many teams are running a version of the Coryell offense. Coaches have added their own touches, but it's still Coryell's offense. He has disciples all over the league. He changed the game."

 

Overall the goal of the Coryell offense is to have at least two downfield, fast wide receivers who adjust to the deep pass very well, combined with a sturdy pocket quarterback with a strong arm. The Coryell offense uses three key weapons. The first is a strong inside running game, the second is its ability to strike deep with two or more receivers on any play, and the third is to not only use those two attack in cooperation with each other, but to include a great deal of mid-range passing to a TE, WR, or back.

 

I included the second quote because people forget about the Chuck Muncie's and other backs like Terry Metcalf. The offense was predicated on being able to run the ball. Unfortunately, too many people only remember it for the passing.

 

In both St. Louis and San Diego, there was no salary cap and teams were built through the draft with little to no input by coaches. In both places, he had less than adequate defenses, and admittedly, spent more time on the offensive side of the ball, relying on his staff to coach up the D. His personnel on defense was usually sub-par and hence his teams got caught in a lot of shootouts (the CARDiac kids from his Cardinal days).

 

What I think holds Coryell out of the Hall is the misconceptions that I have seen here. The man is 85, and it would be a shame if he was awarded posthumously. I think that he will probably get in someday. I hope it happens while he is alive.

[Randall]

Oh, and the line for "coaches who should be in the HoF but aren't" starts with Dan Reeves - 200 wins, 4 SB appearances.

 

 

I agree with this too.

[westvirginia]

How come no one has mentioned that the Coryell offense is the one the Cowboys won three superbowls with in the early 90's, also? Yes, they had the most dominating players of a five-year period maybe ever in football, but the offense made Alvin Harper look like a viable NFL wideout...

 

Like mcboogity has already said, the Air Coryell attack was the first offense to really be based on pre-snap reads and timing throws rather than evaluating the open guy. And you HAD to be able to run the ball to make it work (unlike the run-n-shoot).

 

Oh, and I agree that Dan Reeves probably deserves as much or more consideration than Don C.

 

ETA - wasn't the zone blitz a direct result of this kind of offense also? A way to try and force turnovers and incompletions by breaking up timing? Or am I off my meds again?

Edited May 15, 2009 by westvirginia

[Bronco Billy]

Oh, and the line for "coaches who should be in the HoF but aren't" starts with Dan Reeves - 200 wins, 4 SB appearances.

 

Man, I couldn't disagree more after watching the way he held back Elway. That in itself disqualifies him from any top HC list.

[westvirginia]

Man, I couldn't disagree more after watching the way he held back Elway. That in itself disqualifies him from any top HC list.

 

You really think he held Elway back? I mean, after seeing him in ATL making Vick look like an almost viable NFL QB I really wonder.

[Seahawks21]

"Overall the goal of the Coryell offense is to have at least two downfield, fast wide receivers who adjust to the deep pass very well, combined with a sturdy pocket quarterback with a strong arm."

 

Dallas did not have this philosophy in the 90's. Nowadays, I don't think any teams do. This equation equals losing football. IMO that is what is holding him out.

[westvirginia]

"Overall the goal of the Coryell offense is to have at least two downfield, fast wide receivers who adjust to the deep pass very well, combined with a sturdy pocket quarterback with a strong arm."

 

Dallas did not have this philosophy in the 90's. Nowadays, I don't think any teams do. This equation equals losing football. IMO that is what is holding him out.

 

Ask Troy Aikman and Norv Turner about it. I remember an interview or something on Fox where Aikman talked to Madden about it. It's a lot the same the Chargers are running now. The balance is different, because in both cases they had all-world running backs and top-level o-line talent. Heck, didn't Marshall Faulk break Emmit's TD record in the same offense? They just look different because in both the 90's Dallas and mid '00 Chargers cases they can run the ball and almost no team out there can stop them on a consistent basis. That's just more good coaching, IMO. Running the ball is always the safest play, especially when the other team knows it's coming and still can't stop you.

[Bronco Billy]

You really think he held Elway back?

 

Without one iota of doubt. Elway became a comeback king because Reeves had such a tight hold on the reins for the first 3 quarters at least of most games. It lead directly to the rift between Shanahan, who was the DEN OC then, and Reeves where Reeves accused Shanahan of sabotaging him.

[Chavez]

Man, I couldn't disagree more after watching the way he held back Elway. That in itself disqualifies him from any top HC list.

"Holding back Elway" got the Broncos 3 SBs from 86-89. That with Elway and not much else on offense - a bunch of RBs who resemble Edgar Bennett and some mediocre WRs. I think Reeves did what he had to do to win.

 

Plus Reeves took a QB-less NYG franchise (unless you think Reeves held back Dave Brown, too) and kept them respectable, and managed to keep the sad-sack Falcons respectable as well.