Unlicensed engineer, meet Jerry Jones

[polksalet]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...e2.479828a.html

[Randall]

Spend a $billion on a new stadium, get building advice on a practice facility from an ex con.

 

That makes sense.

[Bronco Billy]

Galland said his Cowboys work was done under the supervision of JCI president Scott Jacobs, a licensed engineer.

 

Why is anyone who understands engineering even remotely interviewing Galland? Work is performed as a regular course of business by unlicensed engineers and then reviewed and sealed by certified professional engineers. If Jacobs is the engineer of record, which publicly available documents should easily establish at the building department, then the work is his responsibility and he is the one under fire. If there is no engineer of record, then the building department dropped the ball if they permitted the work to be done, and whomever performed the work is just as responsible for not working off of documents sealed by a certified professional enginner.

 

BTW - there is no reason why an uncerified ex-con could not credibly perform engineering calculations and prepare documents for review. Does spending time in custody somehow change the laws of physics?

Edited May 25, 2009 by Bronco Billy

[Tford]

Why is anyone who understands engineering even remotely interviewing Galland? Work is performed as a regular course of business by unlicensed engineers and then reviewed and sealed by certified professional engineers. If Jacobs is the engineer of record, which publicly available documents should easily establish at the building department, then the work is his responsibility and he is the one under fire. If there is no engineer of record, then the building department dropped the ball if they permitted the work to be done, and whomever performed the work is just as responsible for not working off of documents sealed by a certified professional enginner.

 

BTW - there is no reason why an uncerified ex-con could not credibly perform engineering calculations and prepare documents for review. Does spending time in custody somehow change the laws of physics?

 

Good post.

 

It is the stamping engineer's fault for not double checking the work. Doesn't matter if a trained monkey did the first pass.

[polksalet]

Good post.

 

It is the stamping engineer's fault for not double checking the work. Doesn't matter if a trained monkey did the first pass.

 

Yeah technically but when civil suits come forward these things matter a lot.

[Shotgun Messiahs]

This place was not built to hide from storms in. That's why they called it a bubble.

[Bronco Billy]

Yeah technically but when civil suits come forward these things matter a lot.

 

Yep, it's been my experience that lawyers will obfuscate the obvious in a blantant attempt to get into as many pockets as possible.

[Bronco Billy]

This place was not built to hide from storms in. That's why they called it a bubble.

 

So you position is that any structure shaped as a hemisphere is incapable of retaining structural stability in 70 mph winds?

[MikesVikes]

I'm guessing that not everyone deserves the priviledge of playing in the NFL but engineering is quite a different story. Have at it. You don't have the right to throw a football but we're ok with engineering behind bars.

[Skippy]

Why is anyone who understands engineering even remotely interviewing Galland? Work is performed as a regular course of business by unlicensed engineers and then reviewed and sealed by certified professional engineers. If Jacobs is the engineer of record, which publicly available documents should easily establish at the building department, then the work is his responsibility and he is the one under fire. If there is no engineer of record, then the building department dropped the ball if they permitted the work to be done, and whomever performed the work is just as responsible for not working off of documents sealed by a certified professional enginner.

 

BTW - there is no reason why an uncerified ex-con could not credibly perform engineering calculations and prepare documents for review. Does spending time in custody somehow change the laws of physics?

Great post and a perfect strike on the nail head.

 

People work under other people’s licenses all the time.

[cdrudge]

BTW - there is no reason why an uncerified ex-con could not credibly perform engineering calculations and prepare documents for review. Does spending time in custody somehow change the laws of physics?

I am in agreement that being an ex-con doesn't mean they couldn't perform the calculations. However his credibility is completely shot...I'd never want him to take the stand as a witness.

 

- Had his criminal record been a one-time crime, an accident that carried criminal responsibility, etc then I could dismiss it a little easier. But his rap sheet includes burglary, assault, use of a firearm during a violent crime, and conspiring to distribute cocaine and Josh Gordon...all more or less premeditated acts. Those are not momentary lapses in judgment.

 

- Even when his qualifications are being called into question, he lies about his education. He attended says he has a bachelor’s degree in physics from Eastern Washington University, but then admits that he didn't the classes required to get the degree. You either have been given a diploma by the school or you haven't. There is no such thing as getting a degree by completing all the coursework specifically related to your major, but skipping the ones that you don't feel related.

 

- Further, he says that he is working towards a master degree, but he actually hasn't even started that schooling. It's May. You aren't going to start a masters program in May. Colleges are wrapping up the semester. Even if he was starting it this fall, saying you are working on that degree means nothing for your past work. That's like saying I can start doing some medical practice when I'm planning to go to med school this fall. If someone was questioning my education, I would make damn sure it was up to date in my bio that I was giving them. And fully expect them to check the references that I do give.

 

- When he makes comments like [Timbie's conclusions] “were accurate but not important. He's not an expert in this style of buildings." or “In general, engineers do not excel in physics or mathematics," I just hear the teacher from Charlie Brown. How can Galland judge Timbie’s work when he himself isn’t an expert? And if engineers don’t excel in physics or mathematics, what exactly are they being paid to do? It sounds to me like he is trying to justify his skills when he doesn’t have an actual degree to back it up.

 

Whether or not it's Galland's work that led to the structural failure, I don't know. But it definitely appears that there were numerous break downs from the engineers, the building company, the city, and from the Cowboys in the safeguards that should have been followed during the construction process.

[bpwallace49]

Why oh why wasnt Perch called in to consult on this project?

[Perchoutofwater]

Why oh why wasnt Perch called in to consult on this project?

 

While I've taken several courses in engineering, I'm not a P.E., so I don't do design work. I don't pick colors either, that is the limp wristed architects job. I build the crap other people design. That's not to say I won't say "wait a minute, that chit ain't gonna work." It seems I'm doing that about once a week.

[Square]

While I've taken several courses in engineering, I'm not a P.E., so I don't do design work. I don't pick colors either, that is the limp wristed architects job. I build the crap other people design. That's not to say I won't say "wait a minute, that chit ain't gonna work." It seems I'm doing that about once a week.

In my experience many of the engineers go too fast and put out shoddy work so that the bidding contractors can sort out their problems (and that's when we get full plans to work with and not just pre-lims). Ex-con or not, there are plenty of questionable engineers. They just normally aren't doing large facilities for multi-million dollar companies. Your credit agency or generic strip mall might have a fly by night engie but work for the Cowboys should be done by a serious company that does large projects in that area.

[Kansas State 2000]

Non issue ... the fault lies on the engineer ... he will be the one sued with results.

[JoJoTheWebToedBoy]

BTW - there is no reason why an uncerified ex-con could not credibly perform engineering calculations and prepare documents for review. Does spending time in custody somehow change the laws of physics?

 

Wait a minute....... it was done by a Philly fan?

[Bronco Billy]

(and that's when we get full plans to work with and not just pre-lims).

 

Believe me, I have worked with my share of contractors who want to take short cuts to save money because they shorted their bid. If I hear, "We've done this thousands of times and have never been sued" one more time, I'll puke. If you did it wrong thousands of times, you're a ticking time bomb of liability.

 

BTW - if you are building with pre-lims and not stamped AFC rev 0s or better, that's on you - not the engineer. You have no business ever building off a set of plans that aren't carrying a seal. Those who live in glass house, my friend...

[Square]

BTW - if you are building with pre-lims and not stamped AFC rev 0s or better, that's on you - not the engineer. You have no business ever building off a set of plans that aren't carrying a seal. Those who live in glass house, my friend...

I was mainly talking about giving bids. Mostly budgets and such. I don't build anything. Basically, I've had plenty of half ass engineers throw out incomplete plans and ask for bids just to see "if they are within budget". Only to have their real secondary goal to have the reps (me) and contractors point out how many holes they have in their design. I work in lighting and more specifically lighting control systems. But now that you mention it, I do see stamped drawings being fairly half baked that go out as contract documents. Anytime you see 3-4+ addenda come out on a plan you can be fairly sure that part of the reason was push back from reps and contractors. They are at least looking for clarifications if not blatantly telling them the design will not do what they intend. I've worked in two different states and have seen it happen fairly often. Honestly though, it's up to the GC and his subs to decide what they can physically build from so I guess I'm out of my area on that part.

[Bronco Billy]

But now that you mention it, I do see stamped drawings being fairly half baked that go out as contract documents.

 

I do too. There is no question that there are some engineers who either do not have sufficient competence to perform the full extent of calculations required for a job or simply choose not to perform the full extent of calcs due to the extra money involved with time spent on a job. I have also seen engineers who are book smart but couldn't tell which end of a hammer to hold out in the field and cause all sorts of issues for the field guys - so it absolutely does happen that engineers are a source of problems. But they are hardly the only source, and it has been my experience that they are responsible for less than half of the problems that arise subsequent to construction being performed and then warranty issues arising.

[Perchoutofwater]

I was mainly talking about giving bids. Mostly budgets and such. I don't build anything. Basically, I've had plenty of half ass engineers throw out incomplete plans and ask for bids just to see "if they are within budget". Only to have their real secondary goal to have the reps (me) and contractors point out how many holes they have in their design. I work in lighting and more specifically lighting control systems. But now that you mention it, I do see stamped drawings being fairly half baked that go out as contract documents. Anytime you see 3-4+ addenda come out on a plan you can be fairly sure that part of the reason was push back from reps and contractors. They are at least looking for clarifications if not blatantly telling them the design will not do what they intend. I've worked in two different states and have seen it happen fairly often. Honestly though, it's up to the GC and his subs to decide what they can physically build from so I guess I'm out of my area on that part.

 

I honestly don't see it go the bid stage like that, of course we primarily do CM work now, so we are in on it from the get go, doing reviews and cost analysis starting with DD, then at 50%, 75%, and 90%. Along the way we may send out some of the preliminary drawings to select subs for "budget pricing" to make sure we are going to be under budget, and this is usually on MEP items that we are not comfortable swagging in house. Don't get me wrong, we still have addenda but they are usually to clarify conflicts, or note who's scope something unusual is to fall under.

 

Every now and then we will have an owner hire us as a CM or Negotiated GC that decides they really don't want to pay the preconstruction fees, and they usually pay considerably more than they would have on change orders, and just premiums due to the size of the addendum. I've found it doesn't matter if the addenda affect a certain trade or not, once you get to certain number or size, everyone's price goes up just to CYA.

[Perchoutofwater]

I do too. There is no question that there are some engineers who either do not have sufficient competence to perform the full extent of calculations required for a job or simply choose not to perform the full extent of calcs due to the extra money involved with time spent on a job. I have also seen engineers who are book smart but couldn't tell which end of a hammer to hold out in the field and cause all sorts of issues for the field guys - so it absolutely does happen that engineers are a source of problems. But they are hardly the only source, and it has been my experience that they are responsible for less than half of the problems that arise subsequent to construction being performed and then warranty issues arising.

 

I know three of the "book smart" engineers you are talking about, and I want to strangle them every time I work with them. I agree with you regarding the problems. Architects and engineers do cause their share of problems, but so do contractors, and owners. My only problem is when I get an engineer that has screwed up, and then wants to nit pick the cost of the fix. That drives me insane. Don't get me wrong, if he they have a legitimate beef, that is fine, but I can't tell you how many times when I've seen an engineer or architect screw up and then try to beat down trade contractors.

[dug]

I know three of the "book smart" engineers you are talking about, and I want to strangle them every time I work with them. I agree with you regarding the problems. Architects and engineers do cause their share of problems, but so do contractors, and owners. My only problem is when I get an engineer that has screwed up, and then wants to nit pick the cost of the fix. That drives me insane. Don't get me wrong, if he they have a legitimate beef, that is fine, but I can't tell you how many times when I've seen an engineer or architect screw up and then try to beat down trade contractors.

And I can't tell you how many times I've seen the contractor screw up and try to blame the Architect.

[Perchoutofwater]

And I can't tell you how many times I've seen the contractor screw up and try to blame the Architect.

 

If you can't draw your intent, how the hell am I supposed to know what it is to build it?

 

If you go back and re-read my post I think I included contractors as part of the problem, as well as the owners.