westhemess2 Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 I got into an argument with my friend today about who will be the better back in 2009 in new orleans. Is it going to be Bush or Thomas. I already drafted Thomas so i have a bias, but i feel like Bush gets injured and Payton doesnt really know how to fully use him. Thomas had a very strong ending to the season last year, all signs seem to point to Thomas. What do you guys think? Bush or Thomas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spider321 Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Bush. How tough can you be with a French name like "Pierre", anyway? It makes me think he'll surrender in the preseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Viva La France!! And I think it goes without saying we all like bush here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemess2 Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 amen to boobies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyjets Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 I'd go Bush (no-brainer if it's a PPR). He's an insane talent. Regardless of how many touches PT gets I don't think he has the upside that Bush has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Bush if he's reportedly healthy. He was on the verge of becoming special before he got slowed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Assuming Bush is healthy is the only question, IMO. In PPR leagues, Bush was the 5th highest scoring RB in average points per game. Granted he missed 6 and was being nursed back into action in a minimum one game (which also brings down his PPG). In the 10 games he saw the field he had 2 30+ point games and 4 20+ point games. Maybe Thomas becomes the higher scoring back, but I know who I'm drafting ahead of the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Bush. How tough can you be with a French name like "Pierre", anyway? It makes me think he'll surrender in the preseason. His name is Charles Pierre Thomas. His name could be Nancy for all I care. He prevented Mendenhall from starting in Illinois and played well late last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Roller Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Assuming Bush is healthy is the only question, IMO. In PPR leagues, Bush was the 5th highest scoring RB in average points per game. Granted he missed 6 and was being nursed back into action in a minimum one game (which also brings down his PPG). In the 10 games he saw the field he had 2 30+ point games and 4 20+ point games. Maybe Thomas becomes the higher scoring back, but I know who I'm drafting ahead of the other. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtdickens Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 I hate RayJ Bush, but he is talented. I dont ever think he is going to play an entire season, but if he fell to like the 4th round I would be all over that. Right now I like PT ahead of Bush because I am not sure if he is healthy enough to come back from the work he had done Who was the other notable player to come back from the same type of surgery? I know it takes basketball players a long time to come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Just to play Devil's Advocate... If PT is such a good player, then why has N.O. been looking for a bigger back to complement Bush? What are they not seeing in Thomas that we see, or, what are we not seeing that N.O. management sees? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Stanky Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 (edited) With Bush's injury history and the fact that PThomas will get the goalline carries, I think PThomas is a much better value since he probably will get drafted after the over hyped Reggie Bush. Edited May 26, 2009 by Capt. Stanky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Assuming Bush is healthy is the only question, IMO. In PPR leagues, Bush was the 5th highest scoring RB in average points per game. Granted he missed 6 and was being nursed back into action in a minimum one game (which also brings down his PPG). In the 10 games he saw the field he had 2 30+ point games and 4 20+ point games. Maybe Thomas becomes the higher scoring back, but I know who I'm drafting ahead of the other. Yup. Both will get their fair share of carries, but Bush will be used also as a receiving threat & in the return game. I'd put Bush head & shoulders above PT in a fantasy draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtdickens Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 I think if they find that extra back somewhere Sloppy Seconds is going to make the move outside for the majority of the game. I thought that was the plan going into this offseason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Stanky Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 It did look like Reggie had turned the corner last year, but then he got hurt. I don't think that NO is going to push Reggie any longer. I see him being moved outside even more this year regardless of if they sign another back or not. Reggie Bush is a WR, not a RB, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 It did look like Reggie had turned the corner last year, but then he got hurt. I don't think that NO is going to push Reggie any longer. I see him being moved outside even more this year regardless of if they sign another back or not. Reggie Bush is a WR, not a RB, IMHO. Please, anybody who thinks this just has no clue. Bush is a RB and always will be. He doesn't run routes as well as a WR & while he catches well out of the backfield he does so against DLs, LBs & at best safeties. Put him vs a CB & he may be able to get behind if he doesn't get jammed at the line. He certainly won't win many jump balls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Just to play Devil's Advocate... If PT is such a good player, then why has N.O. been looking for a bigger back to complement Bush? What are they not seeing in Thomas that we see, or, what are we not seeing that N.O. management sees? I think it's fair to point out that NO likes a lot of playmakers and seems to try to go as deep as possible. I think they're trying to add a 3rd guy because their old 2nd guy (McAllister) is gone and their new #2 (PT) is pushing Bush. I'd imagine he wouldn't want to rely solely on PT should Bush goes down. Pursuit of depth isn't an indictment of what they think of him. I'd say if they didn't think highly of PT, he wouldn't have gotten so many chances to produce last year. And if I'm not mistaken, he might have been the top scoring Fantasy back from last year week 11 onwards in some formats. He was certainly top 5 in most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Stanky Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Please, anybody who thinks this just has no clue. Bush is a RB and always will be. He doesn't run routes as well as a WR & while he catches well out of the backfield he does so against DLs, LBs & at best safeties. Put him vs a CB & he may be able to get behind if he doesn't get jammed at the line. He certainly won't win many jump balls. His 3.7 career rushing avg says he's not much of a rusher either. For as electric as he supposedly is I believe he only has one run over 20 yards in his career, and it happened last year. Sorry, I thought Reggie would be a bust prior to the draft and I still think he's grossly overrated, just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Bush. How tough can you be with a French name like "Pierre", anyway? It makes me think he'll surrender in the preseason. You wouldn't even breath a hint of that statement if he were standing right in front of you tough guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtdickens Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 I guess I know nothing. I thought the point was to get the ball in the guy's hands in open space and let him do his thing. RayJ was at his best when he had the other offensive weapons healthy because it opened up the field for him. He will never be a pure RB because he does not run inside even on inside running plays and he is pretty much going to get hurt every single season. Whats the point of running him inside if he isnt going to make it through the year? Using your argument for playing him at WR means that Lance Moore should play RB. Its a new day the Saints version of the Florida Gator passing attack is coming. Its gonna be fun to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 I own Bush in a PPR 5-player keeper league, in which we also get points for return yardage. Prior to getting hurt last year, he was the league's highest scoring player, head and shoulders above everybody else. The problem with the first half of last year, though, was that he was being used more than he probably should have been... I don't think he's got the "bulk" to be an every-down type of RB. He is a RB, though, there's no doubt. Just because he's not a "run between the tackles" running back doesn't change the fact that he is one. Bush is best used, in my opinion, as a change-of-pace type of guy, who compliments the run-between-the-tackles guy... It used to be Deuce, now it's Pierre, it appears. Because of Bush's homerun capabilities, the key is getting him into the game plan as often as possible, yet without making him have to shoulder the entire load, as an "every down" back. Anybody who questions his big play ability clearly hasn't watched him enough (and obviously missed the nationally televised game against Minnesota last year, where he returned TWO punts for TD's). It's not a surprise that he hasn't had a lot of long runs out of the backfield... that's not how he's best used. He's best used as a pass-catching back, return specialist, with a few runs, reverses, etc. mixed in. Ironically, in the same league (mentioned above) where I own Bush, I own Leon Washington, who is a very similar type of back, in my opinion... homerun threat who is great as a complimentary back, but would struggle as the every-down guy (which is why he and Jones were able to coexist very successfully last year). In that league, we keep one "franchise" player... the other four keepers cost us draft picks, depending on where we drafted them. I am STRONGLY considering keeping Washington as my franchise player instead of Bush, only because if I keep them both, Washington costs me my 3rd round pick. If I make Washington my FP, I can possibly get Bush in the 1st round, and still retain my 3rd rounder. Getting back to the original question... I think it depends on scoring, obviously. Bush is hands down the better option in a PPR setup, while it's much more of a toss-up in non-PPR leagues. However, there is absolutely no reason to think that they both can't have very successful seasons, from a fantasy perspective. I think NO will use Bush a little more wisely this year (which will hopefully help keep him healthy and on the field), and we could see something very similar to what we saw last year from Jones/Washington, out of Thomas/Bush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishFreak Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 It's hilarious seeing these Bush threads year after year. Some still think Bush can be the "man" and be that every down RB Saint fans are dreaming about. It hasn't happened and won't happen so let it go. Bush is a glorified 3rd down RB. Most of his damage is done thru the air which makes him a stud in PPR leagues. But his low YPC average is proof that his running skills are subpar and everyone knows he isn't a good between the tackles runner. Bush is a classic complimentary runner. Remember, he was at his best at USC with Lendale White softening up the D and then Duece doing the same thing a couple of years back.... Just look at what Pierre Thomas accomplished in a very short time last year! PT had 12 TD's with very limited touches with a healthy 4.8 YPC average. There is no question who is the better fantasy RB and all around back. And for those who are touting Bush as the better back in PPR leagues, think again. PT is a solid receiver out of the backfield also and can more than hold his own. It will be interesting to see if he can play at the same level with his added weight. The Saints would be wise to give PT 65% of the touches and let reggie get the other 35%. That would keep both men fresh for the entire season and keep fantasy owners happy. Sometimes less is more and Bush would benefit from reduced touches especially coming off surgery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 What I think is hilarious is people judging Bush fantasy-wise based solely on his merits as an NFL workhorse back. If that's what you are looking for then you can pass on any Saints RB. For that matter you can pass on the growing majority of teams' RBs as well. If you want to talk about pure fantasy value I think Bush is gold. If you want to talk about his value as an NFL RB then there is plenty on the plate for discussion. But I will say, if you are looking at YPC only & whether or not he can run between the tackles then you are doing your fantasy squad a great disservice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishFreak Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 What I think is hilarious is people judging Bush fantasy-wise based solely on his merits as an NFL workhorse back. If that's what you are looking for then you can pass on any Saints RB. For that matter you can pass on the growing majority of teams' RBs as well. If you want to talk about pure fantasy value I think Bush is gold. If you want to talk about his value as an NFL RB then there is plenty on the plate for discussion. But I will say, if you are looking at YPC only & whether or not he can run between the tackles then you are doing your fantasy squad a great disservice. All valid points but the thread's topic was who will be the better RB in 2009. My guess is Thomas and he proved that in starting just a handful of games last year down the stretch. Sure Bush is fantasy gold catching all those dump off passes but his injury history and lack of rushing yardage make PT the better pick and a more complete RB than Bush IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 All valid points but the thread's topic was who will be the better RB in 2009. I didn't read it that way. The original poster starts talking about FF drafting in the 3rd sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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