Let's talk Cleveland LBs

[Tford]

Starters from last year:

 

D'Qwell Jackson (ILB)

Kamerion Wimbley (WOLB)

 

Losses from the LB unit:

 

Willie McGinest (SOLB)

Andra Davis (ILB)

 

Additions:

 

Eric Barton (FA; ex-Jet)

David Bowens (FA; ex-Jet)

Bo Ruud (FA; ex-Pat)

David Veikune (Draft; 2nd round)

Kaluka Maiava (Draft; 4th round)

Marcus Bernard (UDFA)

Jonathan Foster (UDFA)

Philip Hunt (UDFA)

 

Returning Reserves:

 

Leon Williams

Titus Brown

Alex Hall

David Holloway

 

 

 

- Two starters gone from last year in Davis (ILB) and McGinest (SOLB)

 

- Barton (ILB) and Bowens (ILB) are clearly Mangini guys and as proved by his trades in the draft, the Man-Genius in loyal to his guys to a fault.

 

- Leon Williams was heavily rotating in with Davis throughout last year.

 

- Alex Hall didn't look out of place in situational pass rush work last year (3 Sacks and 2 FF).

 

- Despite a better pedigree and better 3-4 experience (both inside and outside) out of UNLV, Beau Bell was a bit of disappointment last year, seeing limited action (5 games) and amassing only 3 tackles.

 

- The Browns are bringing in 5 rookies as well as second year player Bo Ruud (who didn't see the field for the Pats last year).

- Kaluka Maiava has 3-4 experience at USC and is being projected as a utility LB but is a little light.

- David Veikune is a converted DE from Hawaii that is being tried at both OLB and ILB.

- I have limited info on the UDFAs other than Bernard being a DE convert.

 

 

 

Dynasty IDPers, who's your dynasty play here?

 

Admittedly, I was big on Beau Bell last year and have yet to see any return. The signing of Barton tells me that the ILB potential may be limited but he can hardly be considered a long term solution. Overall, I see the Browns LB unit being fairly devoid of established talent and there are many opportunities to seize some jobs.

 

I also like Kaluka Maiava to step in behind DQwell Jackson should he go down. I don't see him taking Andra Davis' old position as he is a little small for that spot.

 

Alex Hall and David Veikune could very likely split McGinest's old position and one or more UDFA probably make this team out of necessity. Although I could see a Greg Ellis work a trade to Cleveland and secure pass rush snaps.

[keggerz]

Veikune played ILB during rookie camp

 

David Veikune, ILB, Cleveland Browns: Like Orakpo, Veikune is making the transition from defensive end to linebacker with Cleveland. Unlike Orakpo, however, Veikune was asked to move to the inside linebacker position -- a transition he showcased surprising comfort with during rookie camp May 1-3. Veikune showed better-than-advertised agility at the position and impressed coaches with his instincts and understanding of the defense in his first days at the position.

[darin3]

Dynasty IDPers, who's your dynasty play here?

Maiava. Totally overshadowed by Maulauga, Matthews and Cushing at USC. This guy would have been a stud on any other college squad.

 

Not the greatest scheme for him to produce in, and he's got some young bucks ahead of him that deserve a chance at producing.... but give Maiava 2-3 years and he could be a solid LB2.

[Ziachild007]

I think it is Barton's job to lose this year (and maybe next) with Veikune being the long term guy.

[darin3]

I think it is Barton's job to lose this year (and maybe next) with Veikune being the long term guy.

Yeah, Barton will produce along with Jackson this year and next. After a couple years, who knows.

[Bronco Billy]

Are people expecting a hugh drop in D'Qwell Jackson's stats? Barton performed so well last season because Harris underperformed so badly (at least partly due to injury), leaving him lots of opportunties to clean up. I don't see how Barton can repeat his numbers or even come close to last year without something similarly catastrophic occurring to Jackson.

[Tford]

Are people expecting a hugh drop in D'Qwell Jackson's stats? Barton performed so well last season because Harris underperformed so badly (at least partly due to injury), leaving him lots of opportunties to clean up. I don't see how Barton can repeat his numbers or even come close to last year without something similarly catastrophic occurring to Jackson.

 

I'm not. Partly because of my agreement with your statement on the Jets' defense last year and partly due to the fact that Browns lost their best in-the-box safety Sean Jones.

[Bronco Billy]

I'm not. Partly because of my agreement with your statement on the Jets' defense last year and partly due to the fact that Browns lost their best in-the-box safety Sean Jones.

 

I'd discount that almost completely. Rhodes' numbers dropped off as soon as Harris two years ago and then Barton last year started taking up numbers at the ILB slots. But Rhodes' drop off didn't mean bigger numbers for both ILB spots. The studlier of the two ILBs seems to benefit, the other stays static. Ipso facto, unless you are predicting a significant drop for Jackson, Barton is going to be pedestrian.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Bronco Billy

[Tford]

I'd discount that almost completely. Rhodes' numbers dropped off as soon as Harris two years ago and then Barton last year started taking up numbers at the ILB slots. But Rhodes' drop off didn't mean bigger numbers for both ILB spots. The studlier of the two ILBs seems to benefit, the other stays static. Ipso facto, unless you are predicting a significant drop for Jackson, Barton is going to be pedestrian.

 

??? I think you missed my point. I agreed with you.

 

I think Jackson's stats stay high, partly because I believe Barton's stats were artificially inflated due to Harris' injury/poor play as well as the loss of Sean Jones.

 

Take a look at last year.

 

Jones:

WEEK OPP RESULT TOT SOLO AST SACK STF STFY FF BK INT YDS LNG TD PD

1 DAL L 28-10 6 5 1 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

2 PIT L 10-6 Did Not Play or did not accumulate any stats.

3 @BAL L 28-10 Did Not Play or did not accumulate any stats.

4 @CIN W 20-12 Did Not Play or did not accumulate any stats.

5 Bye Week

6 NYG W 35-14 Did Not Play or did not accumulate any stats.

7 @WAS L 14-11 10 10 0 0.0 1 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 0

8 @JAC W 23-17 6 5 1 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

9 BAL L 37-27 1 1 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

10 DEN L 34-30 8 7 1 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

11 @BUF W 29-27 2 1 1 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

12 HOU L 16-6 4 3 1 0.0 0 0 0 0 1 20 20 0 1

13 IND L 10-6 3 3 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 1 4 4 0 1

14 @TEN L 28-9 5 3 2 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

15 @PHI L 30-10 3 3 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1

16 CIN L 14-0 5 4 1 0.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

17 @PIT L 31-0 3 3 0 0.0 1 3 0 0 1 3 3 0 1

 

 

Jackson:

WEEK OPP RESULT TOT SOLO AST SACK STF STFY FF BK INT YDS AVG LNG TD PD

1 DAL L 28-10 11 8 3 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0

2 PIT L 10-6 7 4 3 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0

3 @BAL L 28-10 14 5 9 0.0 0 0 0 0 1 16 16.0 16 0 1

4 @CIN W 20-12 4 1 3 0.0 1 5 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0

5 Bye Week

6 NYG W 35-14 10 8 2 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0

7 @WAS L 14-11 11 4 7 0.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0

8 @JAC W 23-17 9 7 2 0.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0

9 BAL L 37-27 11 10 1 1.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0

10 DEN L 34-30 11 7 4 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0

11 @BUF W 29-27 11 5 6 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 1

12 HOU L 16-6 9 4 5 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0

13 IND L 10-6 7 6 1 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0

14 @TEN L 28-9 15 12 3 0.0 1 1 0 0 2 13 6.5 8 0 3

15 @PHI L 30-10 6 4 2 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 1

16 CIN L 14-0 5 5 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0

17 @PIT L 31-0 13 5 8 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0

 

 

Davis:

WEEK OPP RESULT TOT SOLO AST SACK STF STFY FF BK INT YDS LNG TD PD

1 DAL L 28-10 7 5 2 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1

2 PIT L 10-6 3 1 2 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

3 @BAL L 28-10 10 8 2 0.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

4 @CIN W 20-12 1 0 1 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

5 Bye Week

6 NYG W 35-14 4 1 3 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

7 @WAS L 14-11 5 2 3 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1

8 @JAC W 23-17 2 2 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

9 BAL L 37-27 5 4 1 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

10 DEN L 34-30 4 2 2 0.0 1 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

11 @BUF W 29-27 9 5 4 0.0 1 1 0 0 1 4 4 0 1

12 HOU L 16-6 7 5 2 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

13 IND L 10-6 3 3 0 0.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

14 @TEN L 28-9 8 6 2 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

15 @PHI L 30-10 10 10 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

16 CIN L 14-0 7 6 1 0.0 2 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

17 @PIT L 31-0 5 2 3 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

 

 

What I'm reading from this:

 

- Vs. WAS where Portis rushes 27 times for an ungodly amount of yards (36 rushes total), Jackson's solo numbers (4) were uncharacteristically low. Does that mean that the O-lineman were getting to Jackson and eliminating him from the play? I don't think so, his assist numbers were high (7). My gut says that Jones was getting to the ball faster than Jackson was, cutting into his solos. His day wasn't terrible, but I think it could have been better. Jones on the other hand, had a great day, ringing up 10 solos. Davis was relatively pedestrian.

 

- Vs. DEN 28 rushing attempts. Both Jackson (7-4) and Jones (7-1) put up solid outings. Davis is a non-factor (2-2)

 

- Games where Jones was out

 

week 2 vs.PIT

Jackson - 4 solos 3 assists

Davis - 1 solo 2 assists (L Williams - 2 solos 3 assists)

Adams (fill in SS) - 9 solos

Pool - 3 solos

 

week 3 vs. BAL

Jackson - 5 solos 9 assists

Davis - 8 solos 2 assists

Adams - 3 solos 1 assist

Pool - 5 solos 1 assist

 

week 4 vs. CIN

Jackson - 1 solo 3 assists

Davis - 1 assist (L Williams - 6 solos)

Adams - 1 solo 1 assist

Pool - 1 solo

(both starting corners had 7 tackles in this game; only 16 rush attempts)

 

week 6 vs.NYG

Jackson - 8 solos 2 assists

Davis - 1 solo 3 assists (L Williams - 3 solos)

Pool - 5 solos 1 assists

Adams - 5 solos

 

Couple games that support the theory, couple that don't. My point is that there were games that Jackson could have exploded if the safety play was worse. Examples include: week 2 against PIT, week 6 against NYG and week 7 against WAS. A couple few games refute the lesser safety = uptick in stats for the stud not so much the other guy (week 3 against BAL, week 4 against CIN) but I view that as exception to the rule. When CLE safeties were weak down the stretch, Jackson performed like a stud.

[darin3]

I don't see how Barton can repeat his numbers or even come close to last year without something similarly catastrophic occurring to Jackson.

I have a piece coming out in a day or two which covers all IDPs that are on new squads. Barton was a guy that I - obviously - highlighted, and I did indicate we should expect numbers like he got when he first arrived in New York: mid-to-upper 70's in terms of solos, hovering right under or perhaps right over 100 total tackles.

[Tford]

 

(Rotoworld) Browns ILB Eric Barton is running with the first-team defense at minicamps. Analysis: Barton has a head start on rookie David Veikune because he played in Eric Mangini's scheme in New York. Barton will likely start at "Ted" linebacker, with D'Qwell Jackson at the Mike spot. Jackson is a much better IDP target.

 

 

I'm not hearing much about Maiava, but that may be because he is being groomed for the Mike backup job behind Jackson. Maiava seems to be a slightly smaller verison of Jackson (5'11" 230lbs vs. Jackson's 6'0" 240lbs) whereas the Ted LBs (Barton and Veikune) seem to be much larger.