for those about to mock

[tonorator]

[tonorator]

and to add some substance, what are you looking for in the mocks?

 

has brady stormed back into the 1st round?

who goes after ADP? what about forte and westbrook's injuries?

what about last year's trio of SJ, Gore, and LT?

how high will the rookies go?

are the days of RB-RB dead?

 

and most importantly, when do you take your kicker?????

 

we will we will mock you.

[Scooby]

and to add some substance, what are you looking for in the mocks?

 

has brady stormed back into the 1st round? no, never

who goes after ADP? what about forte and westbrook's injuries?, yes all-day 4 me

what about last year's trio of SJ, Gore, and LT? Gore did ok, hurt later which sucked, SJAX injuries all the time & a team in rebuild mode, LT not enough value for draft spot--gettin too old, but love him!

how high will the rookies go? haven't studied them close enough yet

are the days of RB-RB dead? maybe RB-WR good for me

and most importantly, when do you take your kicker????? last round

 

we will we will mock you.

[Savage Beatings]

are the days of RB-RB dead?

 

This year, you'd better end up with 2 WR's in the first 3 rounds, or you might find yourself chasing the WW all year.

[Randall]

I like looking at real startup drafts too.

[Company of Heroes]

This year, you'd better end up with 2 WR's in the first 3 rounds, or you might find yourself chasing the WW all year.

 

I tend to agree.

[tonorator]

This year, you'd better end up with 2 WR's in the first 3 rounds, or you might find yourself chasing the WW all year.

 

have to agree. i like RB-WR-WR and then coming back for the RB in the 4th as there will be plenty of options. only thing that would throw it off is the chance to get an elite QB in the 3rd instead. that could sway me ..

[Tford]

Things I've seen so far.

 

1) MJD seems to be the RB that goes after Peterson most often.

2) Turner has taken a slight dive after the Falcons traded for Gonzalez but still remains a high first round pick. Rarely see him go 1.02 now like he used to before the draft.

3) I've seen 3 WRs go in the first round more than once with a couple more picked shortly after. Moss, AJ, Calvin and Fitz are the only WRs I've seen go in the first.

4) Haven't seen a QB go first round in the startups I've seen.

5) There is a certain degree of polarity on last year's most successful rookie RBs; Forte, Chris Johnson and Steve Slaton. For every draft that these guys slip into the second round, there is another two drafts where these guys go 1.03 - 1.06. Slaton seems to be the biggest polarizing player; ranging from mid first to late second.

6) As always, the top rookie RB (Moreno) is going way too high IMO (late second). Michael Crabtree is also going way too high (saw him go late 5th)

[efi4eye]

I've done several mock drafts now and in the latest one Crabtree went in the late 5th and Moreno went in the late 6th. I actually grabbed Crabtree since I was going to draft Morgan (got him in the 13th). Westbrook went 4th overall and LT 6th overall - biggest surprise was Marshawn Lynch at 4.12.

[Scourge]

I've done several mock drafts now and in the latest one Crabtree went in the late 5th and Moreno went in the late 6th. I actually grabbed Crabtree since I was going to draft Morgan (got him in the 13th). Westbrook went 4th overall and LT 6th overall - biggest surprise was Marshawn Lynch at 4.12.

[Ziachild007]

Am I the only one that thinks Forte will be drafted way to early?

[Tford]

Am I the only one that thinks Forte will be drafted way to early?

 

Nope

[spider321]

Am I the only one that thinks Forte will be drafted way to early?

 

The only way to draft Forte too early is to take him 1st overall.(unless it's a ppr)

Edited June 8, 2009 by spider321

[Ziachild007]

The only way to draft Forte too early is to take him 1st overall.(unless it's a ppr)

 

Exactly my point. Don't have any redraft rankings done yet, but off the top of my head I wouldn't have Forte any higher than say........eleven or twelve.

[The Wolf]

Things I've seen so far.

 

1) MJD seems to be the RB that goes after Peterson most often.

2) Turner has taken a slight dive after the Falcons traded for Gonzalez but still remains a high first round pick. Rarely see him go 1.02 now like he used to before the draft.

3) I've seen 3 WRs go in the first round more than once with a couple more picked shortly after. Moss, AJ, Calvin and Fitz are the only WRs I've seen go in the first.

4) Haven't seen a QB go first round in the startups I've seen.

5) There is a certain degree of polarity on last year's most successful rookie RBs; Forte, Chris Johnson and Steve Slaton. For every draft that these guys slip into the second round, there is another two drafts where these guys go 1.03 - 1.06. Slaton seems to be the biggest polarizing player; ranging from mid first to late second.

6) As always, the top rookie RB (Moreno) is going way too high IMO (late second). Michael Crabtree is also going way too high (saw him go late 5th)

 

Excellent feedback Tford...many thanks for sharing!

[spider321]

Exactly my point. Don't have any redraft rankings done yet, but off the top of my head I wouldn't have Forte any higher than say........eleven or twelve.

 

I wasn't agreeing with you.

 

Forte is the 2nd best RB. He might be the best in a ppr.

[irish]

Exactly my point. Don't have any redraft rankings done yet, but off the top of my head I wouldn't have Forte any higher than say........eleven or twelve.

 

In a PPR league?!? If so, I completely disagree with you. Completely. I'm currently debating on whether I should take Forte or MJD #1 overall in PPR leagues. Forte was more consistent in his only Pro year but MJD has more of a history to go on.

[Ziachild007]

I wasn't agreeing with you.

 

Forte is the 2nd best RB. He might be the best in a ppr.

 

I know. And I wasn't agreeing with you.

 

In a PPR league?!? If so, I completely disagree with you. Completely. I'm currently debating on whether I should take Forte or MJD #1 overall in PPR leagues. Forte was more consistent in his only Pro year but MJD has more of a history to go on.

 

In a PPR league or standard league I think he will be overdrafted. Forte had a decent year, but was THE focal point of the Bears offense last year. That won't be the case this year. While they have said they will remain a run first team, they will no doubt try to take advantage of Cutler's arm. While he may see some of theses passes as well I think it is more likely that there will be more shots downfield. On top of that I aso think they will do more to spell him this year to keep him healthy. So keeping those in mind, I think anyone who takes forte in the top 6 is going to be severely disappointed.

 

FWIW, I would rather have these guys than Forte:

 

Adrian Peterson

Maurice Jones-Drew

Michael Turner

DeAngelo Williams

Steven Jackson

Brian Westbrook

Brandon Jacobs

Chris Johnson

Frank Gore

LaDainian Tomlinson

Marion Barber

Clinton Portis

Marshawn Lynch

Steve Slaton

[spider321]

FWIW, I would rather have these guys than Forte:

 

Adrian Peterson

Maurice Jones-Drew

Michael Turner

DeAngelo Williams

Steven Jackson

Brian Westbrook

Brandon Jacobs

Chris Johnson

Frank Gore

LaDainian Tomlinson

Marion Barber

Clinton Portis

Marshawn Lynch

Steve Slaton

 

[Ziachild007]

 

Well that's an intelligent, well thought out response.

[Puddy]

FWIW, I would rather have these guys than Forte:

 

Adrian Peterson - Agree

Maurice Jones-Drew -Agree

Michael Turner -Agree

DeAngelo Williams - Agree

Steven Jackson - Disagree (I think St. Louis is going to be terrible)

Brian Westbrook - Disagree (Injuries)

Brandon Jacobs - Disagree (Don't trust the big back at this point)

Chris Johnson - Push

Frank Gore -Disagree - (Gut feeling here. I think SanFran is on the right track but don't trust Gore implicitly)

LaDainian Tomlinson - Disagree (Big time on this one. I loved him but he's not a first rounder IMO)

Marion Barber - Push

Clinton Portis - Disagree

Marshawn Lynch - Disagree (especially given the 2-game suspension)

Steve Slaton - Agree

 

I'm a sucker for youth however.

[spider321]

Well that's an intelligent, well thought out response.

 

Allow me to be more specific.

 

 

Adrian Peterson -

Maurice Jones-Drew - maybe

Michael Turner - 376 carries last season can't help

DeAngelo Williams - I love DWill too, but no

Steven Jackson -

Brian Westbrook - on the decline

Brandon Jacobs -

Chris Johnson - close, but no

Frank Gore -

LaDainian Tomlinson - if this was 2004

Marion Barber -

Clinton Portis - 29 yrs-old = time to "jump ship"

Marshawn Lynch -

Steve Slaton -

Edited June 9, 2009 by spider321

[Tford]

Allow me to be more specific.

 

 

Adrian Peterson -

Maurice Jones-Drew - maybe

Michael Turner - 376 carries last season can't help

DeAngelo Williams - I love DWill too, but no

Steven Jackson -

Brian Westbrook - on the decline

Brandon Jacobs -

Chris Johnson - close, but no

Frank Gore -

LaDainian Tomlinson - if this was 2004

Marion Barber -

Clinton Portis - 29 yrs-old = time to "jump ship"

Marshawn Lynch -

Steve Slaton -

 

1) Portis isn't 29 years old; he's 27. With the exception of 2006 (knee), he's never been under 1500 total yards, including last year's 1700.

 

2) Mike Turner only had 4 total touches MORE than Forte. Doesn't matter whether you carry or catch, you still get hit. Turner has had less than 250 total scrimmage touches before last season. Still plenty of tread. ATL won't decrease his workload either. Turner is about as automatic as you get in the RZ.

 

3) Steven Jackson and Matt Forte were equivalent in PPG last year. Only difference between this year and last is a switch to WCO by the Rams (Read: more catches for SJax), Spags wanting to find ways to get Steve the ball, Lovie Smith stating that they want Forte to be spelled more often and the Bears getting a downfield passing threat.

 

4) MJD will be the feature back on a team that loves to run. He's best back they have on the roster for receiving, goal line, 1st and 2nd down. Greg Jones will be more of a factor than many believe IMO but MJD had less than 260 touches and still finished 4th in scoring.

 

5) How does a back that on the decline lead the league in PPG scoring? I guess despite playing hurt and depressing your stats even moreso hurts your credibility. The fact of the matter is that Brian Westbrook was BETTER than Matt Forte when he played, a full 0.7 PPG better.

 

6) The guy leads the league in RB scoring and he's supposed to fall of the planet? What makes you say that Forte will be better than DWill? Certainlt can't be the fact that Fox loves to run the ball and DWill is the veteran player on his team or that JStew has a potentially serious ankle injury because those factors lead me to believe that DWill will be right back near the top. Your lack of argument otherwise is weak.

 

Will get to guys like LT, Slaton, CJ, Gore later. Some of Zia's list I don't necessarily agree with but much of it I do. Looking forward to some decent debate but my gut says I don't get any.....

[Ziachild007]

1) Portis isn't 29 years old; he's 27. With the exception of 2006 (knee), he's never been under 1500 total yards, including last year's 1700.

 

2) Mike Turner only had 4 total touches MORE than Forte. Doesn't matter whether you carry or catch, you still get hit. Turner has had less than 250 total scrimmage touches before last season. Still plenty of tread. ATL won't decrease his workload either. Turner is about as automatic as you get in the RZ.

 

3) Steven Jackson and Matt Forte were equivalent in PPG last year. Only difference between this year and last is a switch to WCO by the Rams (Read: more catches for SJax), Spags wanting to find ways to get Steve the ball, Lovie Smith stating that they want Forte to be spelled more often and the Bears getting a downfield passing threat.

 

4) MJD will be the feature back on a team that loves to run. He's best back they have on the roster for receiving, goal line, 1st and 2nd down. Greg Jones will be more of a factor than many believe IMO but MJD had less than 260 touches and still finished 4th in scoring.

 

5) How does a back that on the decline lead the league in PPG scoring? I guess despite playing hurt and depressing your stats even moreso hurts your credibility. The fact of the matter is that Brian Westbrook was BETTER than Matt Forte when he played, a full 0.7 PPG better.

 

6) The guy leads the league in RB scoring and he's supposed to fall of the planet? What makes you say that Forte will be better than DWill? Certainlt can't be the fact that Fox loves to run the ball and DWill is the veteran player on his team or that JStew has a potentially serious ankle injury because those factors lead me to believe that DWill will be right back near the top. Your lack of argument otherwise is weak.

 

Will get to guys like LT, Slaton, CJ, Gore later. Some of Zia's list I don't necessarily agree with but much of it I do. Looking forward to some decent debate but my gut says I don't get any.....

 

And to be honest, that was just a list off the top of my head. I my reasoning doesn't centter as much around why these guys are gonna be super studs, than it does the fact I think Forte will fall short of what he did last year.

[Bronco Billy]

FWIW, I would rather have these guys than Forte:

 

Adrian Peterson

Maurice Jones-Drew

Michael Turner

DeAngelo Williams

Steven Jackson

Brian Westbrook

Brandon Jacobs

Chris Johnson

Frank Gore

LaDainian Tomlinson

Marion Barber

Clinton Portis

Marshawn Lynch

Steve Slaton

 

Opionions are like ###holes - everyone has one and they all stink. That said, here's my take on your list:

 

Adrian Peterson - no brainer, and ought to be the first RB off the board in any draft

 

Maurice Jones-Drew - have my doubts about his workload capability, but he doesn't have anyone legit to share with unless Jennings steps up, which is a very real possibility. Still, he ought to be #2 or #3 on just about any list right now. Personally, I wouldn't get him in virtually any draft I am in because I like Turner, Forte, Jackson, Gore, and Portis better than MJD in the upcoming season. His size/potential workload scares me a bit and I don't want to see my first rounder tweaked in the second half of the season.

 

Michael Turner - Love him, love the addition of Gonzo and the movement of Ryan up the QB learning curve/passing game improvement opening bigger running lanes for him, love that Norwood keeps his workload reasonable. Personally, I like Turner better than MJD because he's substantially bigger and he doesn't have to play hurt with Norwood behind him.

 

DeAngelo Williams - Love DWill also, always have. The problem being that he not only has to share with Stewart now, but also with Goodson, who is getting nothing but rave reviews and looks to be on the field in multiple roles to steal a few more touches each game. That will help keep DWill healthy also, but now there is concern about too little workload to be a stud FF RB. This is hard to believe, but Stewart could end up being the odd man out in this backfield.

 

Steven Jackson - Love his situation, and I'd move him up above DWill right even with Forte and Turner as the #2-#4 RBs on my own board.

 

Brian Westbrook - Injury bug starting to bite with his age/size/career workload. Will have to share with McCoy, which is good for Westy but bad for FF owners of Westy. Plus the addition of Maclin and Ingram ought to take some of his receptions away, and Reid LOVES to pass the football.

 

Brandon Jacobs - Love him also, but he's sharing way too much in NY and doesn't get the receiving love in the O (and he's a good receiver who would be a nightmare catching 40 balls a season in the flats). Bradshaw and newcomer Andre Brown should limit his touches too much.

 

Chris Johnson - Looking at a potential flash in the pan here. The presence of White and the additions of very capable rooks Javon Ringer and Quinton Ganther spook me and make me wonder what Fischer is thinking with the stable of RBs he is building. CJ is way down my list - and I'll freely admit I may miss out on him this season and regret it, but I'm way leery of this situation.

 

Frank Gore - Love the situation, SF is getting better and the addition of Crabtree helps him a ton. I think he's just a hair below Forte, and that's because CHI's passing game & D are better, meaning Forte will get more second half opportunities. Switch Forte and Gore on the teams they currently run with, and I'd like Gore better.

 

LaDainian Tomlinson - Getting long in the tooth for an NFL RB and has absorbed an obscene amount of work over the years. He's going to give up some of his workload to Sproles and Gartrell Johnson this season. That's another situation where it is very good for LT and the Chargers, but bad for LT FF owners. Still a very legit first round pick, but not at the top of the list by himself anymore.

 

Marion Barber - I just can't see it with Jones and Choice in the mix. If I were his HC I'd feed him the ball until he keeled over. He's a joy to watch run, and he's nails between the tackles. But he's going to share a significant portion of the load without question, and Choice will start stealing some goal line opportunities. For some reason, he's Jerrah's redheaded stepchild.

 

Clinton Portis - Love Portis, and can't understand why he doesn't get the love he should from FF owners. He's a workhorse in the prime of his career, and he has Betts to help keep him from being overworked. His only downside is that teams will load up in the box because Campbell throwing the ball scares no one. That keeps him from being in Forte territory.

 

Marshawn Lynch - No way he should be above Forte. No way. He's a suspension risk at all times and will already miss almost 20% of the FF season going in. He has Jackson and Rhodes, both of whom are outstanding complementary RBs, on the roster. And BUF is going to throw the ball more with the addition of TO and the drafting of Shawn Nelson at TE.

 

Steve Slaton - Like Chris Johnson, I worry about Slaton being a flash in the pan. Last year was incredible, but I'm having a tough time figuring out how he repeats it. HOU added a couple of very undersung UDFA RBs in Arain Foster and Jeremiah Johnson, and quite frankly I'd be worried as a Slaton owner about Torain's status in DEN since he's looking to be a roster casualty there, and Kubiak loves adding Shanahan castoffs to the HOU roster. His size scares the snot out of me if he is forced to carry a full load again. Too many variables in the equation for me to feel comfortable drafting this guy in the middle, much less the upper, first round. Again, he could be a guy I miss out on and regret it, but too much risk outside of his control with him for my taste.

 

Forte - ideal situation, with the addition of Culter adding a dimension to the Bears' offense that does nothing but help Forte. He'll still get his catches out of the backfield - look how Cutler was in love with Hillis in the passing game. But now the SS is out of the box in CHI and the LBs have to play a step deeper with Cutler's laser arm. That spreads the running lanes and makes Forte ultra-dangerous with his one cut ability/speed combination. He'll still get plenty of work with CHI's solid D (look at their ranking in critical stats like opp. ypc, opp ypa, and TO ratio rather than overall ydg/pts), and Kevin Jones is just good enough where Forte doesn't have to absorb all the work in the backfield. Ideal situation for a RB who many significantly under-rate his physical ability and all-around game. He's very legit in the #2 to #4 slot in any draft.

Edited June 9, 2009 by Bronco Billy